Smuggler Archive

Thread: Depending On Smugglers

Ryutek
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:07 am
#40






Ternque01 wrote:

That being said, your point that seriously cutting into players' fun is a strong one, we need to move on from there.





The problem though, is that this debate is not what is actually being stated. Let's look at the ideas. From my perspective Gabe is wanting all the benefits, and not wanting to use the skills of another class. He does not seem to want to accept consequences for choices made (carrying contraband, joining the GCW as a Rebel).


This is the issue I have.


Please Gabe, go back to my original post and counter what I said. if you can provide good reasons against what I stated then I am all for continuing the discussion, but I have yet to see any good reasons from you in this thread.


I appreciate you trying to come up with ideas, but if you want to come up with ideas then at least respond back to those solid arguments against your points.



Ryutek

Former Teräs Käsi Correspondent, Circa 08/2004 to 02/2005

No longer holding out hope, SWG will never be the game we fought so hard for, that we believed so much in. Farewell friends.



[email protected]
Roadego
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:09 am
#41

I don't why this is so hard for you to grasp. It has been said several times. You do not need to carry contraband. It is a 'perk' not a must have. So I suppose you want free medic skills and entertainer skills to because dang that's just to much downtime.

And contrary to popular belief unsliced weapons work just as well as sliced ones. And if that 10-35% really meant that much then no one could ever compete with those that can afford krayt weapons. Personally, I have never owned a krayt weapon and I gain more faction when I pvp than I lose. So the 'phat loot' hasn't taken away my ability to compete.



____________________________________________________________________________________________
A Smuggler's Life
The devs need to watch star wars again. Luke was a whiny baby with the hots for his own sister. Solo was the rockin smuggler with the blaster, the chick, (a personality) and a wookie.

Adravis
StGabriel
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:13 am
#42

The problem though, is that this debate is not what is actually being stated. Let's look at the ideas. From my perspective Gabe is wanting all the benefits, and not wanting to use the skills of another class. He does not seem to want to accept consequences for choices made (carrying contraband, joining the GCW as a Rebel).

Well by this appraisal you could say that I am getting all the benefits of all crafting professions without spending skillpoints. Clearly this isn't true. Should I have to spend points in weaponsmith to use a sword?

You've got to realize that you are really asking for content above and beyond the dependencies that other professions already have (except arguably entertainers). You can't wave it off as a simple matter. Players already resent the high level of dependencies in the game.

StGabe.

Message Edited by StGabriel on 03-23-2004 12:14 PM



--- The Clan McDonnell ---

Gaffyn McDonnell -- Master of Blades (master fencer/swordsman/brawler)
Flynn McDonnell -- Master Weapon Smith (+22 exp), Armorsmith (+25 exp)
Lorrinne McDonnell -- Nightsister (pike/doc)

Ternque01
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:16 am
#43

I have a GREAT idea... check it. OMG this is great.

Okay... let's say you have all your sliced gear on and maybe some spice.
Make it so that your slices are only "activated" with a smuggler in
your group. Your composite becomes normal.. your gun.. normal. When a
smuggler enters your group, you get the benefits.. smugglers, btw, always
get the benefits.

From a RP and continuity stand... it is FAR more dangerous to walk in the
open with "active" mods on your gear without a smuggler to fast talk his
way around an authority. The smuggler "deactives" your gear (for your
sake when he leaves your group). Now don't get me wrong, you can still
get caught by the random scans when they REALLY scrutinize your equipment,
and you get fined/penalized like normal.

That way Gabe, you aren't "hasseled" constantly, while you still get the
benefits and reward while grouping with a smuggler. Grouping with a smug
will really be worth it, and you don't get the downside of being raped
by scan teams every 5 minutes.

WOW, i think it solves every problem you bring up

Comments? Questions? I really like this idea



Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
StGabriel
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:21 am
#44

Hassle equals risk

Hassle equals boredom.

Challenge equals fun.

In other words, it's a hassle to have to balance risk and reward on your own, and you want the game to decide things for you rather than evaluate them on your own.

Far from it. You continue to judge me very incorrectly. You'll note that I'm not trying to tell you what you do and do not think.

The issue is not one of not having decisions. Rather the issue is one of having fun and interesting decisions. Suppose the space expansion comes out and the following is proposed:

Flying to a new planet will take 30 minutes unless you use a player starcraft in which case it will take 10 minutes.

This would create a reason to use player starcraft but in a very unfun way. You might say, "you can choose to use player starcraft or not" but that doesn't really change the fact that it's just a big hassle that makes the game more boring. I'd love to have the opportunity to use player services to speed up my travel but not if it means that I'm stuck waiting for 30 minutes anytime there aren't any player pilots around.

I think it'd help to step back a bit, take a few deep breaths, and look at what I'm trying to say here. It's not an anti-smuggler message. Far from it. If other players loathe a smuggler revamp because it simply makes the game less fun then you know, the change might not happen even if Smugglers need it. By discussing these things now I think you guys have a better shot at focusing on stuff that is going to work and will "sell".



--- The Clan McDonnell ---

Gaffyn McDonnell -- Master of Blades (master fencer/swordsman/brawler)
Flynn McDonnell -- Master Weapon Smith (+22 exp), Armorsmith (+25 exp)
Lorrinne McDonnell -- Nightsister (pike/doc)

Ryutek
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:21 am
#45








StGabriel wrote:
The problem though, is that this debate is not what is actually being stated. Let's look at the ideas. From my perspective Gabe is wanting all the benefits, and not wanting to use the skills of another class. He does not seem to want to accept consequences for choices made (carrying contraband, joining the GCW as a Rebel).

Well by this appraisal you could say that I am getting all the benefits of all crafting professions without spending skillpoints. Clearly this isn't true. Should I have to spend points in weaponsmith to use a sword?

No, a weaponsmith CRAFTS a sword. These are not the same thing. Let's not get ridiculous. A comparison would be having to take Novice Medic to heal. Having to take novice Weaponsmith to create your own Weapon Upgrade kits as a Smuggler. Come on Gabe, I know you are intelligent enough to see the difference. Reason through your statements first please.

You've got to realize that you are really asking for content above and beyond the dependencies that other professions already have (except arguably entertainers). You can't wave it off as a simple matter. Players already resent the high level of dependencies in the game.

What are we asking for that is above and beyond the dependencies other professions have? I'll use the mag seal example. We cannot open them anyway, so we have to wait for the timer as well. If we could open them great, but they would still be able to be opened by anyone else on the timer that exists now. That is a matter of convenience, not dependency.


Ido not resent the "apparent" high levels of dependency.I personally see very little dependencies when I play other than doctors and entertainers. Mind clarifying this "perceived" high level? i personally think that is just an excuse to use to try and make your point, and I don't buy it.



StGabe.


Message Edited by StGabriel on 03-23-2004 12:14 PM








Ryutek

Former Teräs Käsi Correspondent, Circa 08/2004 to 02/2005

No longer holding out hope, SWG will never be the game we fought so hard for, that we believed so much in. Farewell friends.



[email protected]
Ryutek
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:23 am
#46






Ternque01 wrote:
I have a GREAT idea... check it. OMG this is great.

Okay... let's say you have all your sliced gear on and maybe some spice.
Make it so that your slices are only "activated" with a smuggler in
your group. Your composite becomes normal.. your gun.. normal. When a
smuggler enters your group, you get the benefits.. smugglers, btw, always
get the benefits.

From a RP and continuity stand... it is FAR more dangerous to walk in the
open with "active" mods on your gear without a smuggler to fast talk his
way around an authority. The smuggler "deactives" your gear (for your
sake when he leaves your group). Now don't get me wrong, you can still
get caught by the random scans when they REALLY scrutinize your equipment,
and you get fined/penalized like normal.

That way Gabe, you aren't "hasseled" constantly, while you still get the
benefits and reward while grouping with a smuggler. Grouping with a smug
will really be worth it, and you don't get the downside of being raped
by scan teams every 5 minutes.

WOW, i think it solves every problem you bring up

Comments? Questions? I really like this idea






One problem, where is this "hassle" other than the scans? I do not see this as being something beneficial. I have yet to see a scan. Mind pointing me in the direction of a place I can be hasseled so that I can experience this at some point?




Ryutek

Former Teräs Käsi Correspondent, Circa 08/2004 to 02/2005

No longer holding out hope, SWG will never be the game we fought so hard for, that we believed so much in. Farewell friends.



[email protected]
Ternque01
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:25 am
#47

I totally agree Gabriel, what do you think of my above idea?

I think it really works around alot of the real issues, make us
quite valuable to a group, and most of all (like you say just above me)
doesn't make things hard while making another thing interesting.

BTW, you bring up that valid point that not all good changes have to
necessarily bring penalties.

My idea above accounts for that.



Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
StGabriel
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:26 am
#48

No, a weaponsmith CRAFTS a sword.

Syntax doesn't change the semantics. You want to argue that I have to depend on a smuggler at a level greater than I depend on weaponsmiths when weaponsmiths are a pure crafting profession and smugglers are a hybrid. I'm showing you the high level of dependency you are asking for.

The difference between a medic and a smuggler is that I can save up my wounds and contact a medic at my leisure. Once I do so healing my wounds is a relatively short affair. The time I take to provide this opportunity to the medic is minimal and is on my schedule.

StGabe.

Message Edited by StGabriel on 03-23-2004 12:33 PM



--- The Clan McDonnell ---

Gaffyn McDonnell -- Master of Blades (master fencer/swordsman/brawler)
Flynn McDonnell -- Master Weapon Smith (+22 exp), Armorsmith (+25 exp)
Lorrinne McDonnell -- Nightsister (pike/doc)

Smug-Druggler
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:27 am
#49


___________________________________________________________________________


WayneinAustin wrote:


Also, I did not comment on the other thread (and I should have) where all the smugglers are bashing the idea of kits to open the mag-seal containers. I don't like the idea of a "treasure chest" sitting at the end of a cave screaming out to everyone "Ha! Ha! Only smugglers can open me!". But there may be lots of options to fixing this.


___________________________________________________________________________


Not to flame, Wayne, butyou did comment on that "Smuggler Apocalypse thread last night...


"Thunderheart hits you with Low Blow for 2105 damage." Was what you wrote.








Keer Tregga the "Smug Druggler" -- Corrupting the Galaxy One Spice Run at a Time....
Ternque01
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:27 am
#50

Ryutek wrote:

One problem, where is this "hassle" other than the scans? I do not see this as being something beneficial. I have yet to see a scan. Mind pointing me in the direction of a place I can be hasseled so that I can experience this at some point?

/endquote

The "hassle" is not having your slices activated unless a smuggler is there to cover
your ass. This is off the presumption that walking out in daylight with sliced gear
is to dangerous to avoid contant harrasment by the authorities.



Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
StGabriel
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:29 am
#51

Ternque -- I think that idea works in principle however I wonder if it is problematic in that it provides a very large ability for smugglers. For example, adding 35% damage to all people in your group blows away all of the existing Squad Leader abilities (admittedly SL's need help anyway).

In principle I think it works. In practice I wonder if it is really feasible.

StGabe.



--- The Clan McDonnell ---

Gaffyn McDonnell -- Master of Blades (master fencer/swordsman/brawler)
Flynn McDonnell -- Master Weapon Smith (+22 exp), Armorsmith (+25 exp)
Lorrinne McDonnell -- Nightsister (pike/doc)

StGabriel
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:32 am
#52

Where do I get scanned?

I get scanned all the time on Dantooine and Yavin. I can't remember how many times I've been scanned on the way to the Geo caves and the last night I played (I have been out of town for a week and a half now, no SWG) I got scanned 3 times in as many hours while doing missions on Dantooine.

Look at it this way, ether . . .

. . . scans are infrequent and thus not a hassle. But then they are too rare for them to be really be a perk for smugglers.

OR

. . . scans are very common and thus a big hassle.

StGabe.



--- The Clan McDonnell ---

Gaffyn McDonnell -- Master of Blades (master fencer/swordsman/brawler)
Flynn McDonnell -- Master Weapon Smith (+22 exp), Armorsmith (+25 exp)
Lorrinne McDonnell -- Nightsister (pike/doc)

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