Smuggler Archive
Thread: Depending On Smugglers
St. Gabe's still not getting it. Please re-read the last 3 or 4 replies and concentrate on...
- you don't have to carry around contraband.
- If you're soloing these dungeons by yourself, it seems like your fun isn't being "sucked" at all.If you can get therewithout any help,grouping with a Smuggler is a small price to pay.
Electricnomad's right. There is way too much coddling now in SWG. It's a by-product of releasing the game in such a sorry state to whereSOE had to keep their customers from leaving in droves by making it easier. Now (it seems) that they are trying tobalance that particular carrot.
- you shouldn't be able to solo to the extent that you're doing it now in the first place (consider it a trade-off for not being able to loot that Mag Seal).
present a system that doesn't limit your options, i'm not going to fool
with you anymore.. go at him guys. Wipe him out.. all of him *evil grin*
Ahem.
I never said that all proposed systems do not hamper choices, far from it. I am simply advocating focusing on those that create options instead of taking them away. If all proposed systems do this then I have really nothing to say about them.
StGabe.
to instituting player smuggling. The reason for the vocality is that it
is needed, and furthurmore can be implemented in a way that doesn't limit
the options of other players. Read my first post. What really angers
me about Gabriel is that he doesn't really seem to grasp that we have
ideas for systems that don't cut into other players fun/convenience.
That is what truly angers me. He goes on like the only ideas we have are
ones that will make the game "not fun". That's not cool, and it's not
openminded.
Perhaps if he'd just chill and realize that.
StGabriel wrote:
I don't care what the storyline is but the choice between a 35% loss in damage efficiency or frequent vulnerability to scans and a big loss of time (for example for a covert that is not interested in PvP) is not fun.
Kind of like my struggle with whether or not to keep those 15 skillpoints in Medic so I can enjoy the ability to self-heal. I REALLY want some extra combatabilities, and I could use those 15 skillpoints to get some nifty ones. Man, that's no fun to have to make tradeoffs and not be able to do everything myself. I guess the Devs should just give me extra skillpoints so I don't have to make unappealing decisions like that.
/sarcasm off
Sounds like your version of fun equals all reward and no risk.
You know, it's attitudes like yours that REALLY make me wonder if it would be a good idae to make all sliced weapons untradeable, Smuggler-only items. We wouldn't have to put up with the whining masses who expect to use drugs like they were candy or tamper with weapons without risking any consequences whatsoever.
StGabriel wrote:
WRONG!! It is still a choice. There are many great crafted items out there that are not sliced. Slicing is an ILLEGAL Modification to a weapon. If you want that extra edge be prepared to pay the consequences. The attitude you are bringing across is "I want all reward and no risk". Sorry, that attitude is just one that really ticks me off
Sure, and a rifleman doesn't have to use a rifle.
This is not the same debate. A rifleman has to use a rifle has his or her chosen weapon. They DO NOT however have to use an illegally modified one to be competitive. Let's keep it in perspective.
I don't care what the storyline is but the choice between a 35% loss in damage efficiency or frequent vulnerability to scans and a big loss of time (for example for a covert that is not interested in PvP) is not fun.
1) Stay Neutral if you are afraid of possibly not winning in PvP. I do not carry the best weapons, but with tactics I can hold my own. That is not a valid argument.
2) If you are afraid of scans do not carry contraband.
Neither of these limits fun. So before you come in and claim for it to give me a good detailed example of exactly how sliced items and spices are REQUIRED to have fun in this game. I'll save you some time, you cannot. They are NOT REQUIRED to have fun.
The goal should be to give Smugglers fun and to maintain the fun for other professions. Whatever the story is, if its not a fun game, people will not play.
And if everyone has the same abilities and skills then no one will play either. Look at your own ideas, go back and read my initial post with exact responses to what you stated, and you'll see that I gave you specific reasons why you are wrong in my opinion. If you disagree then refute those, but this is starting to be more of a pissing contest than a debate, so let's get back to that initial post. I'll even repost it below if you like.
electricnomad wrote:
StGabriel wrote:
I don't care what the storyline is but the choice between a 35% loss in damage efficiency or frequent vulnerability to scans and a big loss of time (for example for a covert that is not interested in PvP) is not fun.
Kind of like my struggle with whether or not to keep those 15 skillpoints in Medic so I can enjoy the ability to self-heal. I REALLY want some extra combatabilities, and I could use those 15 skillpoints to get some nifty ones. Man, that's no fun to have to make tradeoffs and not be able to do everything myself. I guess the Devs should just give me extra skillpoints so I don't have to make unappealing decisions like that.
/sarcasm off
Sounds like your version of fun equals all reward and no risk.
You know, it's attitudes like yours that REALLY make me wonder if it would be a good idae to make all sliced weapons untradeable, Smuggler-only items. We wouldn't have to put up with the whining masses who expect to use drugs like they were candy or tamper with weapons without risking any consequences whatsoever.
me about Gabriel is that he doesn't really seem to grasp that we have
ideas for systems that don't cut into other players fun/convenience.
That is what truly angers me. He goes on like the only ideas we have are
ones that will make the game "not fun". That's not cool, and it's not
openminded.
Actually it is exactly openmindness that I am interested in. I'm open to a wide slew of possible smuggler boosts and I have even thrown out several ideas here myself. Openmindedness swings both ways. I'm not saying Smugglers are wrong, that they don't have good ideas, that they don't need content -- I'm not saying any of that and if you predicate a response on any of those ideas I can assure you that you are misreading me. Rather I am simply offering an outer viewpoint as a non-smuggler in an attempt to foster further openmindedness about the issue.
Far from it.
I want increased reasons to group, increased risks, etc.
There is a difference between risks and fun though. Limiting my options or hassling me (i.e. through scans) just so that someone else has content isn't fun. Making a game that is challenging and where I have ample reasons to enlist help from fellow smugglers and other professions is.
StGabe.
StGabriel wrote:
Give me positive reasons that a smuggler is going to help me, not reasons that I'm screwed if I can't find a smuggler.
StGabe.
StGabriel wrote:
Sounds like your version of fun equals all reward and no risk.
Far from it.
I want increased reasons to group, increased risks, etc.
There is a difference between risks and fun though. Limiting my options or hassling me (i.e. through scans) just so that someone else has content isn't fun. Making a game that is challenging and where I have ample reasons to enlist help from fellow smugglers and other professions is.
StGabe.
You are still failing to grasp these facts (from my original post, taht you still have not actually gone back and responded to each point of when I provided solid arguments, btw).
First things first. In this game the Empire is fighting to obliterate the Rebellion. You chose a side, you should face consequences if your side is the oppressed one. This was a CHOICE that you made, and should therefore have to deal with any consequences that arise as a result of your choice. Remain Neutral and you have no problems.
Second, and this is the problem we are faced with. Spices and sliced items are supposed to be illegal, not a commodity. This was a poor implementation of these items to have not started the game with penalties for carrying these. Because they are supposed to be illegal you have a CHOICE about whether to carry them or not, and if you choose to then you should face consequences if caught. Do not carry contraband and you have no problems.
We cannot even open magseal containers. They are on a timer. Frankly, I just disagree with you wholeheartedly here, as Smugglers get the skill to open locks they should be able to open these containers as well, but inly Smugglers. Everyone else should have to wait until the correct time the locks are open, have a Smuggler with them for these locks, or invest the skill points into Smuggler to be able to open them themselves. Buy your skills with skillpoints, do not give a class's skills away with craftable items. You have the CHOICE to utilize one of these options, provided we even gain the ability to open these containers.
present a system that doesn't limit your options, i'm not going to fool
with you anymore.. go at him guys. Wipe him out.. all of him *evil grin*
Ahem.
I never said that all proposed systems do not hamper choices, far from it. I am simply advocating focusing on those that create options instead of taking them away. If all proposed systems do this then I have really nothing to say about them.
StGabe.
/endquote
Well thank you. I am glad that you have noted this. Just as a note to you. Avoid responding to flaming posts.
It makes you come off as a troll. I'm not harping, but it is interesting that the only time you respond to my ideas
is when i tell my friends to obliterate you
It would be MUCH more constructive to only hit the constructiveposts and respond to them. It is difficult not to be sucked into a flame war, but you must realize that we
NEED a viable illegal system in this game. We have great ideas that work. Please address them first. If finding
those good ideas was hard, just ask... i'm sure MANY MANY of us would like to share them with you.
That being said, your point that seriously cutting into players' fun is a strong one, we need to move on from there.
If that were how the game were that would be fine. That is NOT the sort of thing that I am advocating against here. Smugglers having an edge in some manner that other professions do not have is fine just as skill point tradeoffs are a cool part of the system.
The problem is there when, in order to be competitive with other players, I have to be hassled to provide other players content. If smugglers get cool boosts to their weapons at a loss of skillpoints then that is fine, that's smuggler content that I can choose or not in making my character. Smugglers will be implicitly balanced by the fact that they spent skill points to get there.
But with sliced weapons as contraband the limiting factor isn't skillpoints it is my tolerance for hassles. No one can group 24/7 with a smuggler and I will be hassled plenty with my sliced weapons. Heck I have been scanned 3 times in the period of an hour before when I was simply crossing a planet to get to some content. The game then becomes: I fight better but only if I am willing to put up with a hassle. In comparison to other players I can get an edge by doing something that is inherently un-"fun". And that's just not a good game.
StGabe.
Message Edited by StGabriel on 03-23-2004 12:05 PM
It makes you come off as a troll. I'm not harping, but it is interesting that the only time you respond to my ideas
is when i tell my friends to obliterate you
Ahem, the sheer number or replies I am making here should show that I am making a sincere effort to address the concerns all those discussing this with me. I cannot initiate dialogue with 10 people all at once without missing a few things.
StGabe.
Message Edited by StGabriel on 03-23-2004 12:07 PM