Smuggler Archive
Thread: Depending On Smugglers
Ryutek
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:34 am
#53
StGabriel wrote:
No, a weaponsmith CRAFTS a sword.
Syntax doesn't change the semantics. You want to argue that I have to depend on a smuggler at a level greater than I depend on weaponsmiths when weaponsmiths are a pure crafting profession and smugglers are a hybrid. I'm showing you the high level of dependency you are asking for.
Frankly, no you aren't. I still fail to see a high level of dependency. It would be convenient for you to have a smuggler with you to slice the container, or you could wait like everyone else for the time lock to release. There is no dependency there, only convenience.
The difference between a medic and a smuggler is that I can save up my wounds and contact a medic at my leisure. Once I do so healing my wounds is a relatively short affair. The time I take to provide this opportunity to the medic is minimal and is my choice.
Just as you have a choice to carry contraband, and then if caught you get penalized. You have the choice to be Rebel, and thus risk being penalized by the Empire. You have the choice of having a Smuggler to open a container (provided we EVER GET THE ABILITY IN THE FIRST PLACE) or you can wait for the time lock as intended (or else it wouldn't be a time lock in the first place). The time is still minimal, with the possible exception of the time lock in which case you just are not lucky enough to get the loot from that specific container unless you wait, and remember that NO LOOT IS guaranteed to a player in the first place.
It is still a choice. It does not harm gameplay. It does not make the game "Un-Fun."
StGabe.
Roadego
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:34 am
#54
So, If I'm reading you right you come here to suggest ideas that would allow you to carry all the contraband you like because of the false notion you have of needing it to compete while at the same time turning smuggler into even more of a crafting class by crafting more gadgets for you to use to gain smuggler skills because you want zero risk for using illegal items. Is that about the gist of it?
Ternque01
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:34 am
#55
What do you think of my group-slice-activation idea?
You can have sliced gear, but automatically only risk
using the slice "active" when a smuggler is in your group.
There is a reward, and the "risk" is automatically coded and
accomodated for in the game so as to make having a smuggler in
your group a very nice benefit
As opposed to avoidance-of-
pain necessity. Who would want to be the smuggler in a group
that only carries him around like an albatros to avoid being
constantly raped by scanning teams?
My idea implements a group benefit without making boring and
hasseled the only alternative.
Can you feel me on this guys/gals?
You can have sliced gear, but automatically only risk
using the slice "active" when a smuggler is in your group.
There is a reward, and the "risk" is automatically coded and
accomodated for in the game so as to make having a smuggler in
your group a very nice benefit
As opposed to avoidance-of-pain necessity. Who would want to be the smuggler in a group
that only carries him around like an albatros to avoid being
constantly raped by scanning teams?
My idea implements a group benefit without making boring and
hasseled the only alternative.
Can you feel me on this guys/gals?
obijkenob1
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:36 am
#56
So as a smuggler/tka/pistoleer rebel, I got scanned. I was made overt, and an ATST aggored me. Seeing as how its only weakness is blast damage, I pulled out my trusty power hammer and used my swordsmen tool kit to wield it just as effectivly as a swordsmen bc I didn't want the inconvience offinding a commando or swordsmen. I mean, I didn't know any on, so why shouldn't I be able to solo it?
StGabriel
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:38 am
#57
Is that about the gist of it?
No, the idea, very simply, is that content for one profession should not come at an expense to "fun" for other professions.
Telling me that I can "choose" to use a non-optimal gun in order to ignore a boring and un-"fun" hassle is just trying to recast the argument into another direction that I don't think is very helpful.
Smuggler content can easily exist in a way that gives Smugglers unique abilities, a role in the game, and yet does not provide empty space and hassle time for other professions. Simple as that.
StGabe.
No, the idea, very simply, is that content for one profession should not come at an expense to "fun" for other professions.
Telling me that I can "choose" to use a non-optimal gun in order to ignore a boring and un-"fun" hassle is just trying to recast the argument into another direction that I don't think is very helpful.
Smuggler content can easily exist in a way that gives Smugglers unique abilities, a role in the game, and yet does not provide empty space and hassle time for other professions. Simple as that.
StGabe.
Shrendyc
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:39 am
#58
You know, you got a lot of nerve coming in here and taking a king sized dump on the one thing smugglers want above all else - the ability to do what our NAME says. At least you get to swing a sword at things. We want something that allows us to have a use that actually would give us some content. We have NOTHING. NOTHING! Get it? one more time - NOTHING!
Spices are screwed as of the chef update and this latest patch bug with regen time. They aced panic shot and Feign death, making what meager combat abilities we have even more meager. One WHOLE TREE is a big lump of nothing, and only then has a small value if you are in the GCW.
Since you claim to know how we're fighting for our identity in the game, where the hell were you when they gimped Feign Death? Where were you when they disemboweled spices? What about our brief battle about Panic shot? Are you going to bat for us on the new spices bug?
Before you say that we need to focus on not limiting your damn fun, maybe you should help us get some fun out of our profession. Or can't you be bothered with that as it will cut into your play time?
Go troll somewhere else.
Ryutek
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:39 am
#59
I'm sorry Ternque. I disagree with your idea. However, I disagree becuase these items are illegal and should only be carried by those willing to suffer the penalties if caught. End of story in my opinion, but I guess we'll just have to disagree here.
RylanStorm
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:40 am
#60
I think there's always going to be problems like this in any discussion.
One thing that is clearly evident is that classes must eitherbe needed or desired and that's lacking in most classes at the moment. But the distintion lies in what is needed and what is desired.
If something is necessary rather then desired there is another problem. What do people do when that profession isnt available to them? So making it so that smugglers are always required for getting people past scans wont work. The reasoning behind this is that people plan for the future. They know a smuggler wont always be present so they will not carry contraband at all.
Same with magseal locks. If they know a smuggler may not be present when they needa container slicing they will stock up on factory crates full of kits and we'll never be needed at all. At the moment smugglers are neither desired nor required. This is the crux of our issue.
The other problem that is created by this game is that there is a huge distinction between a profession and a skill tree and that seems to have been missed by the developers.
Smuggling is a profession, Bounty Hunting is a profession, Weapon-crafting is a profession. All of these have clear goals, to smuggle, to hunt marks and to build weapons.
Swordsman isnt a profession. It's a collection of skills which helps you do a job. Problem is in this game that the only jobs for combat classes are destroy missons or PvP. Mercenary is a profession that someone who is a swordsman can do, if the mechanics of the game allowed it. See the difference?
Until what we do has an effect on the game world itself, then the combat classes wont have a role and thats where the problem lies. And until the penalty for having illegal goods is higher, and the benefit from having those goods is higher, Smugglers wont have a job either.
The answer is to put more content in, and by that I don't mean an extra dungeon.. Then there will be more jobs for everyone, and people with swordsman skills will have arole.
StGabriel
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:41 am
#61
You know, you got a lot of nerve coming in here and taking a king sized dump on the one thing smugglers want above all else - the ability to do what our NAME says.
This is not at all what I am doing.
There are lots of ways to have smuggler content that does not make the game less fun for non-Smugglers and I think that Smugglers will be more successful pushing ideas that focus on this.
StGabe.
This is not at all what I am doing.
There are lots of ways to have smuggler content that does not make the game less fun for non-Smugglers and I think that Smugglers will be more successful pushing ideas that focus on this.
StGabe.
Smug-Druggler
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:41 am
#62
_______________________________________________________
St Gabriel wrote:
And if I don't know any smugglers on?
I would love to have a benefit to grouping with a smuggler, when I can. I would love to see grouping be more viable and require more care. But this doesn't need to be at the general expense when a group with a smuggler isn't possible.
Give me positive reasons that a smuggler is going to help me, not reasons that I'm screwed if I can't find a smuggler.
StGabe.
________________________________________________________
And what if you have 200 Battle Fatigue and there are no Entertainers online?! You want a "Las VegasDroid" patch to heal your BF all by yourself?
Stop it, already.
Ternque01
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:42 am
#63
Ternque -- I think that idea works in principle however I wonder if it is problematic in that it provides a very large ability for smugglers. For example, adding 35% damage to all people in your group blows away all of the existing Squad Leader abilities (admittedly SL's need help anyway).
In principle I think it works. In practice I wonder if it is really feasible.
StGabe.
/endquote
Very good point. Perhaps your slices are just halved when not grouped with a smug,
so as to avoid any notice and "imperial entanglements". That way the benefit
isn't so large, but is still quite nice to have Now it's just a 10-15% boost.
That isn't big, but would really make us a commodity (and us some money he he he).
It really fits with slices being illegal and all...
At any rate, the contraband/spice idea where superspice would be used in food/
regular spice provides exactly what you want too. Listen. Incredibly good food and
spice at the risk of being randomly (sparsely) scanned, carry it on you you would.
You can only get it from a smuggler who has to fight this craftable superspice
component to the crafter... which you so conveniently buy from him/her. No inconvenience.
All choice. Your dependence on a smuggler is indirect (not groupable), and you
really demand the smugs services.
Two great ideas
In principle I think it works. In practice I wonder if it is really feasible.
StGabe.
/endquote
Very good point. Perhaps your slices are just halved when not grouped with a smug,
so as to avoid any notice and "imperial entanglements". That way the benefit
isn't so large, but is still quite nice to have
Now it's just a 10-15% boost.That isn't big, but would really make us a commodity (and us some money he he he).
It really fits with slices being illegal and all...
At any rate, the contraband/spice idea where superspice would be used in food/
regular spice provides exactly what you want too. Listen. Incredibly good food and
spice at the risk of being randomly (sparsely) scanned, carry it on you you would.
You can only get it from a smuggler who has to fight this craftable superspice
component to the crafter... which you so conveniently buy from him/her. No inconvenience.
All choice. Your dependence on a smuggler is indirect (not groupable), and you
really demand the smugs services.
Two great ideas
Ryutek
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:42 am
#64
StGabriel wrote:
Is that about the gist of it?
No, the idea, very simply, is that content for one profession should not come at an expense to "fun" for other professions.
Telling me that I can "choose" to use a non-optimal gun in order to ignore a boring and un-"fun" hassle is just trying to recast the argument into another direction that I don't think is very helpful.
No, it just shows that the people playing this game cannot seem to realize that if something is supposed to be illegal then there should be consequences for being caught with them. You have to accept that and realize that it should be that way. If not then please leave our forum, as the same principle does apply everywhere else. If you carry something illegal then you have to suffer the consequences if caught. Very simple principle, as in the entire principle of having laws.
Smuggler content can easily exist in a way that gives Smugglers unique abilities, a role in the game, and yet does not provide empty space and hassle time for other professions. Simple as that.
At least we agree here, but NOTin the manner you propose.
StGabe.
Roadego
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:43 am
#65
Smuggler content is a PERK. You do not need it so quit using that same old arguement. Unless all your weapons are krayt weapons you are already using non-optimal gear.
And with your ideas, no smuggler can not be fun, because you want no risk to carrying illegal items. You want us to make you craftables like we were a bunch of crafters. Simple as that.
And with your ideas, no smuggler can not be fun, because you want no risk to carrying illegal items. You want us to make you craftables like we were a bunch of crafters. Simple as that.