Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smugglers forgotten AGAIN
Raanan
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:40 pm
#40
The community has made it better. Who are the ones who've come up with fun and interesting ways to work with what the devs have given us? The community.
Take your gloom and doom elsewhere. You think if Solo were as pessimistic as you he'ld be saying things such as "She'll hold together!" and "We'll make it!"? We are smugglers. We may have **edit** to work with but we make it work.
Baloraan
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:40 pm
#41
Its proven that if they know they can "push" you aside and you are "ok" with it all the time, then the "smuggler community" is the least path of friction to keep pushing back. If the smuggler community starts causing friction, then they will not be so easy to push aside.
If people start standing there ground instead of saying "oh well that sucked.. guess I have to deal with it" then maybe the revamp would come sooner rather than later.
Its one thing being understanding. Its another letting people push us around. We are smugglers. WE DO THE PUSHING! (all puns intended)
If people start standing there ground instead of saying "oh well that sucked.. guess I have to deal with it" then maybe the revamp would come sooner rather than later.
Its one thing being understanding. Its another letting people push us around. We are smugglers. WE DO THE PUSHING! (all puns intended)
Smuggler_Caylin
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:52 pm
#42
I don't know what I risk by posting these, but they are a few ofmy comments. Ihave no names or comments to track back to others and I believe they are safe to share. I think I cleared out everything that should not be revealed, but I hope to God I'm right, or you will see me get booted from this position so fast... and rightfully so.
I've taken a few of my comments from the c-forum, decide for yourselves. I don't like having to do this, but if you do not believe you are being represented fairly, this is what I will provide at this time. I don't think I've taken any of this 'complacently', but I also don't believe we are the center of the universe to the exclusion of everyone else.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I personally believe that the combat balance is the single most important item to be done in the game. Good combat gameplay is a very large foundational block in most MMORPG's. Look at City of Heros, all they do is combat, they do it well and people love it, though it does get understandably repetitive.
By pushing it further on, after the expansion is not a good decision from my perspective. I would prefer delaying the expansion, and getting the combat revamp completed. Many players have been waiting solely for the combat revamp as the reason to continue their subscriptions. Always having it 'just around the corner'.
I would also have to inquire as to just how much further the other promised revamps, that were moved post JTL, will be delayed. Having the combat balance should be of utmost priority in my opinion, particularly when weighed against the often promised smuggler revamp.
Yes, I want the combat balance to go in, work successfully before the smuggler revamp... It sounds odd to me, having waited for a year for a smuggler revamp, but I feel it is necessary.
I personallyhave no plans tobuy JTL until the foundations of the game are where they need to be. Twitch gameplay has little appeal to me, when I've been wanting an involving storyline to work with since I heard this game was in production.
*editted for some content here at the end, mostly part of that 'possitive influence' thing I'm supposed to promote.*
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
In regards to how I would plan to reveal it to my community...
This is dangerous ground, they already know they are delayed post-revamp. So they are most likely going to see the smuggler revamp happen months after JTL is released. As you have no time-line for that, you are asking for more than just a little faith on their part.
If you increase communication... it would be better. GreenMarine made a start, but he has been absent for going on two weeks, when he promised two weeks ago to have a new proposal over underworld for the smuggler community to review. It's being taken as another broken promise, which we were told was not going to happen ever again.
Other than addressing the delay, there isn't much more to say to the smugglers... We have had several 'leaving' posts already from those who are not going to wait. The communication with the communities must exist, in order for many to decide it is worth it to stay on.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
*Some edits due tomessage contentnot cleared*
Though I will certainly add that smugglers are more than a tad upset that they are looking at a longer delay by default for their revamp.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Please understand though, that we have been told over 6 months that we are more of a 'space base' profession and that a great deal of our content would be realized through the expansion.
We kinda need some specifics, you know? Or at least general ideas to help justify that.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
The smugglers have always been cool when we have been actively informed and given reasons. The eruptions have been over coverups, bad communication and pacifying comments that really did no good.
When we were informed why and what was going on, I KNOW the developers were impressed by how well the community took it.
This is a quote from JustG when the smuggler playerbase was actively informed of a decision to delay our revamp which has been promised for a year.
JustG wrote:
Wow... thanks for being so understanding!!! We will try to make this all it can be, and involve you as much as we can!
/salute,
- g
I think that speaks for itself, when we are given something to go off of and why. Very understanding and patient when given sound reasoning and the attempt is made, instead of covered up and posted as a reaction to something, which happened when the other delay was announced. That one wasn't taken well by any of the smugglers.
So as we have been waiting so long, it would be nice to get a bone, when the information could be shared at least a little... I would hope.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Well, we know that smugglers have been told these things.
- Some smuggler contentis supposedly only possible after the expansion is released. This is either through mechanics or situations.
- Smugglers were told they are more of a 'space based' profession, and this is used for us, as Combat Revamp is used for 90% of the rest of the player base.
- GreenMarine states that the smugglers will want JTL, but our revamp (where we mostly desire content) would not require it.
These things are apparently what we have come to believe.
- That smugglers will have deep, involving content that does not require the expansion. Thus equally viable on land as in space, as our profession should not 'need' the expansion.
- Smugglers should be capable ofusing their skills through the space expansion as they are more of a 'spaced based' profession.
Smugglers are not considered a full out combat profession, we are more of a 'content' profession. We don't really stand up for ourselves at this point in time. We don't fight well, we shouldn't be crafters and we don't do our profession defining ability, smuggling. This gives us a bit of justification when we look for our role to be expanded, don't you think?
Now**name censored**is 100% correct when bringing up the context of those quotes. It's a far cry from saying Smugglers work for Jabba, to actually having the player smugglers, actually smuggle for Jabba. There is little backbone to thesestatements from the Friday Featurethat implies an actual role to the smuggler profession. It's more akin to reading a historical representation of the planet and it's system than it is an admission to the future role for the smugglers to be found in the expansion.
It would seem piracy and other things will happen in the expansion, where NPC smugglers would be performing raids and goodness knows what else on other smugglers, given what we read here. (I am referring to the friday feature a bit ago, every system was mentioning smugglers.)
Smugglers would hate to find all these references though, and find an NPC smuggler has more content available to them than a player smuggler.
There is yet to be a firm, decisive comment from the developers to the player base regarding the role of smugglers in the expansion. Something that apparently we have need of for a great deal of our professions content, is notbeing elaborated onin any way. It's not as if we are asking for the mechanics of the situation, as many want with the combat revamp. Weneed an admission as to part of our role in the upcoming expansion. Or are we not a 'space based' profession as we have been lead to believe?
Please understand that we have operated on faith for a very long time, it would be nice to be shown a bit of the carrot by now. We still don't do our profession defining ability, unlike players who can fight, heal or craft, we don't really do any of that. In fact, we really don't do a whole lot of anything aside from push faction points around and slice peoples stuff. That's a far cry from anything resembling a healthy and involving profession.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Bzzzz
Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:41 pm
#43
JediArashi wrote:
They are not going to make drastic changes before JTL we've known this for months. Neither did they truly "delay us again" they always maintained fro mthe last setback that it would be sometime after JTL, which by no means confers that they ever intended us to be anywhere except soem unforseen time in the future.
Pushing the combat revampbeyond JTL didn't so much delay our mythical revamp as it showed us yet more evidence of how irrelevant our revamp is to the development team. Simply put, there's no money in fixing us. JTL offers the most hype for players new and old, throws up a *huge* smokescreen over the broken ground game, and ultimately results in massive increases in SOE revenue. Appeasing the combat-classes first offered us a glimmer of hope thatour small minority was worth some dev attention eventually. Now we know that even the entire combat-system of SWG is secondary, possibly even trivial. No dates or promises have been set as to whenbasic combat will work properly,how can we possibly hope to earn redevelopment time?
Zz
silversaber
Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:42 pm
#44
I wasvery outraged whenthey first intruduced the Smuggler profession in Beta. It was obviously alast minute , hacked together jumble of skills they quickly set up and slapped the Smuggler profession title on it. So outraged that I outright accused Holocron of assigning all the Smugglerdevelopmental resources elswhere, and he admitted it.
Then the Devs said for us to be patient, because that Beta has run out of time and they needed more time and resources to do Smugglers right, and that it would be a priority. And so I swallowed my anger and waited patiently.
I greatly appreciate the risks of what your doing in posting this information Caylin, and I have never blamed you or accused you of not pushing our agenda to its utmost, and I never will.
This thread was never created to put any pressure on you.
What it was created for, was to let the Devs know that, like everything else, there is an end to my patience, and that they are comming damn close to it.
The LEAST they can do is put a time table down, and stick to it!
They owe us that and alot more.
VegitoX
Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:17 pm
#45
As always C, Thank youfor the detailed post. I believe at this point it's almost...no, it isprobably safe to assume that our revamp will indeed bepushed back from whatever time that they originally had in mind.
To be honest the only reason why I even intend on staying is because of Pub 10. The prospect of actual content is the motivating factor...even if it is to be the one thing that I never intended my character to be, a Jedi..My smuggler skills will be the first to go. JTL really isnt going to keep me in SWG, disenchantment has settled in, I actually took a hard look at COH the other day, and wanted to buy WoW, till I realized that it wasn't out yet.
Im done venting
/lifemoves on
Smuggler_Caylin
Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:48 pm
#46
I understand Silversaber, I can only ask that you please believe me when I say that.
When I see posts here, such as the one made by Astrus, I don't know if a reasoned out explanation will work with them.
The way you get things worked onin the correspondent system does not revolve around pitching a fit, whining and bitching about your problems. If that was what we did on the c-forum, nothing would be accomplished.
Some people seem to want me to do the 'whine to get more attention' crap. I will argue as well as I can, but I draw the line at extended whines, bitching and moaning. I will not be a thorn in their foot that they have to take time and address every other post. That would waste their time, piss off other correspondents who are being reasonable with their own professions concerns, and be counterproductive to the good of the game in the end.
There is a time and a place to argue for your side with the developers, and I will do my best to accomplish that where I can. I provided my posts in hopes that many of you would get a good handle on how I was representing you there.
Some of yall may not know this, but we could have very well had a revamp at Publish 9. TH went over the details in a 19answers... when the smuggler community got it's hands on it, we rejected it. Told them to take it back, and spend more time working it out. I firmly believe that this was the best decision to this day. At that time, I was ready to leave the game immediatly if that was the revamp we were given, without a second thought. Thankfully they listened to us, and decided to work on it more. So we are now subject to further delays, in the search for a perfect smuggler revamp.
I may be a correspondent, but I am first and foremost a player of this game. I am just as involved and upset as the rest of you.
It is my belief that sharing these posts keeps me honest, that itis healthy for me and for this community. I have no desire to end up as another SanTsu. I am your representative only so long as you smugglerswant me to be, or untilI feel I can no longerfill in at that capacity.
Doesetsu
Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:04 pm
#47
Being connected to many professions due to many different characters, I can say one thing for sure:
Caylin - In my opinion, you are the best Coorespondent that I have dealt with.
I started off as a Chef, and SirVimes, the old correspondent was great, and he got his revamp. Fortunately for him, timing was so that there weren't any big ticket items standing in his way.
You speak for all of us in a way that other communities wish their correspondents spoke.
Keep it up!
Caylin - In my opinion, you are the best Coorespondent that I have dealt with.
I started off as a Chef, and SirVimes, the old correspondent was great, and he got his revamp. Fortunately for him, timing was so that there weren't any big ticket items standing in his way.
You speak for all of us in a way that other communities wish their correspondents spoke.
Keep it up!
Smuggler_Caylin
Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:16 pm
#48
I hope I don't come across as someone needing a pep-talk or some other weirdo stuff, but I do ask for a certain amount of thought put into statements.
It's hard for me to just be lumped in casually with SOE like that... lol
Had to defend my actions if I could.
*Edits in: Thanks Doesetsu 
Vimes was quite a guy.*
Vimes was quite a guy.*Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 07-16-2004 05:21 PM
Capt_Baobab
Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:28 pm
#49
Zhagadska wrote:you either are a smuggler, or ya aren'tyou either have the mindset to enjoy it and make the best of it in light of it's faults, or you dont have what it takes.a lot of us old timers who went out and got our locked containers the old fashioned way, grinded up without buffs, payed our early dues, etc; are smuggler because we enjoy it, it's a badge of honor we wear proudly. some people have had enough of the false promises and mistakes of the devs ( i wont say they lied, that's very harsh and narrow minded, i'll give them the benefit of the doubt they overreached or made serious mistakes) and move on to other professions or quit the game.smuggler can be a very fun class, we have attitude, a handful of nasty tricks, and better stories to tell then any other profession. but if you don't got what it takes, you'll only leave frustrated and bitter.
gGotta agree with ya. Being a smuggler takes Brains, not Blasters. You hit the nail RIGHT On the head with that starting sentence.
Caylin, thank you for shareing that with us. For me, it just proves the fact that you "know where your towel is"(HHGG). and for the rest of you. if you wanna leve and become a BH, or a MM or whatever, be my guest... Just leaves that much more for the rest of us, when the time comes... i'll thank you in advance
Smuggler_Caylin
Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:39 pm
#50
I hinted at this earlier, but at some point the developers want to hold a correspondent summit in Austin. Hopefully reasonably soon.
While I believe the goal will be to discuss the combat balance, I will certainly be doing my best to get you all represented there.
Hopefully I will get more information I can share with yall, so I can best prepare to represent you while addressing the concerns that are bringing us there in the first place.
WesBelden
Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:00 pm
#51
Be sure to get traveling expenses paid, they've taken enough off you already 