Smuggler Archive
Thread: Last ditch working as intended?
Gilbert45 wrote:
Crusade against you? Nope. If I am on any crusade at all, it is against a gamebreaking skill.
MISTagent01 wrote:
Gilbert45 wrote:
Crusade against you? Nope. If I am on any crusade at all, it is against a gamebreaking skill.
Gamebreaking? GAMEBREAKING? Let's talk about "Gamebreaking."
Gambreaking is all my friends quitting because PvP isn't fun anymore due to a certain profession I need not name.
Gamebreaking is never wanting to get involoved in the GCW because you know you're going to see that profession there, and there's just no point to it.
Gamebreaking is whining so much that the devs give your profession TWO publishes back to back, while pushing back a profession that's been aching for content for almost two years.
Gamebreaking is when people like you call for nerfs to my profession because you can't handle one measly ability.
When Jedi were made PvP gods, it broke this game. Don't come in here and talk to me about gamebreaking skills, when you are a gamebreaking PROFESSION.
When you are ready to discuss LD, let me know.
I will happily discuss "jedi ruined my game" in another thread.
Gilbert45 wrote:
MISTagent01 wrote:
Gilbert45 wrote:
Crusade against you? Nope. If I am on any crusade at all, it is against a gamebreaking skill.
Gamebreaking? GAMEBREAKING? Let's talk about "Gamebreaking."
Gambreaking is all my friends quitting because PvP isn't fun anymore due to a certain profession I need not name.
Gamebreaking is never wanting to get involoved in the GCW because you know you're going to see that profession there, and there's just no point to it.
Gamebreaking is whining so much that the devs give your profession TWO publishes back to back, while pushing back a profession that's been aching for content for almost two years.
Gamebreaking is when people like you call for nerfs to my profession because you can't handle one measly ability.
When Jedi were made PvP gods, it broke this game. Don't come in here and talk to me about gamebreaking skills, when you are a gamebreaking PROFESSION.
When you are ready to discuss LD, let me know.
I will happily discuss "jedi ruined my game" in another thread.
Gilbert45 wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
Game breaking skill? Would you like to claim ignorance or arrogance for this remark?
Ignorance would be if you really don't understand how this special works because it seems you really don't. Last ditch is exactly what it says, it's a last chance shot to save your butt in combat, not an opening one shot kill. This skill relies as much on timing and luck as it does on skill mods. The player has to use it at a precise time in order to get the shot off and do a serious amount of damage. If it's not used properly, it get's the player using it killed. Incapping yourself is a common oocurence when using Last Ditch in case you didn't know that.
Arrogance would be the fact that Jedi want it all. They want to be the only ones with powerful attacks, super defenses, and the overall ability to beat another player one on one. That would be great if you guys actually stayed in your own little corner of the world like you're supposed to, but you dont wan't to. You want to dive into the gameplay of others. Any time any player has some sort of skill or special that keeps you from killing anything and everything in the game you call it game breaking. Jedi have abused and exploited more in this game than all the other professions combined, but when a skill is working as intended you try to claim it an exploit or game breaking.
You want to talk gamebreaking, take a look at nearly all of the Jedi skills.
I think it's time you learn how to actually play the game instead of building the template that will make you most powerful. All the power in the world will do nothing if you don't know how to wield it.
I think it's time for you to step off because you're either sadly misguided or you're completely self centered and arrogant to the point that it's made you inept in combat.
Message Edited by SmugglinZane on 05-13-2005 08:22 AM
My misgivings regarding last ditch has no relation to my profession as jedi. I am master swordsman on my alt and as such I find last ditch eqauly gamebreaking. You apply character to me solely based on the fact that I play a jedi toon. Your obvious hatred towards the jediprofession has no bearing on the matter at hand.
Ignorance? No I do not think so. I do not claim to have tested the ability a hundred times and done statistics on it. But I have dueled 2 different smugglers where LD was used. First duel, I was 1-shot killed. Second duel, the smuggler mistimed the LD and I won. That same smuggler then dueled someone else (also a melee class) and won using LD. None of the 3 times did the smuggler incap himself. The second smuggler I fought, incapped me with LD as I was about to win the duel (goes without sayign that I was winning, or she wouldn't have been able to use LD to any degree of effect). I lost heart and let 3 other people duel that same person. The same thing happened. She incapped the all three of them (1v1 duels...not 3v1) and not once did she incap herself. She then dueled the first one once again and did the exact same thing, but this time without shooting one single shot, apart from the finaly 1-shot kill. I count this smugglers 7, others 1 (and this one failed due to mis timing as I said). 7-1 is a little more than coincidence in my oppinion. But I do agree that further testing is required to make a certains statement about the skill. But to say that you bear a great risk of incapping yourself or failing to incap your target is simply not true. Ignorance...nope.
Arrogance? You assume me arrogant based on nothing more than you know I play a jedi character. What could be more arrogant than make an assumption like that? As I said, the LD "I win" button is equally gamebreaking for jedi and swordsmen alike. This is not a jedi issue alone, allthough you will have to agree that considering it is a "forced PvP" profession it is of somewhat great concern.
Let me ask you this: Would "nerfing" LD to a 85% healthdrain not still allow the shot to be a viable strategy? I think it would. It would make an attacker think twice before going in for the kill he thinks is certain. If he is not fully healed he is risking instant death because he knows that the smuggler will employ every "dirty trick in the book" to win the fight and he should expect anything commign from a cornered scoundrel. This would keep the LD a unique and extremely powerfull attack, without giving it the current "I win" classification. No class, not jedi, not swordsmen, not smugglers, should EVER be able to perform an attack that drains a fully buffed/healed healthbar.
All you need to do, is STAY AWAY from a profession you feel threatened by... myself, I pick my fights... Master Sharpshooter... hmmm... no thank you, Master Pikeman... maybe... I'm sorry if you can't just KILL EVERYONE... but this is certainly not an "I win" button, for me it's been more of a "thank-the-maker-i'm-not-dead" button... If you feel threatened by Smugglers, avoid them, I can't beat jedi, so I avoid them... it goes both ways.
Also, if you're not used to the fact that you're being hunted by now, then you've got a thick skull... I would imagine that being hunted constantly, would make you more alert and aware of the situations around you. Personally, I think every month or so, Darth Vader should go on a "purge" and every Jedi who's online will have to fight him... 500k HAM hiting for 10k... yeah... oh, and if he manages to kill you, you're "jedi" is deleted from the server... hehe, because in star wars, he would do this, and you'd be dead, forever.
Gilbert45 wrote:
Let me ask you this: Would "nerfing" LD to a 85% healthdrain not still allow the shot to be a viable strategy? I think it would. It would make an attacker think twice before going in for the kill he thinks is certain. If he is not fully healed he is risking instant death because he knows that the smuggler will employ every "dirty trick in the book" to win the fight and he should expect anything commign from a cornered scoundrel. This would keep the LD a unique and extremely powerfull attack, without giving it the current "I win" classification. No class, not jedi, not swordsmen, not smugglers, should EVER be able to perform an attack that drains a fully buffed/healed healthbar.
Last ditch takes skill and timing to pull off to make it work and not get yourself killed, i love this move it is so much fun because it is a real last ditch what i have been waiting for to come out i think the price we pay for using it is equal to the damage it does and that in my opinion is fair.
Believe me when this move goes wrong their is no going back the smuggler will end up incapped and db'ed in short order though if it goes right it can help us come out from behind and surprise our opponent which is always fun.
As far as im concerned last ditch is finaly working as intended and so is feign death though we appear to have our profession messed up by jedi alot so i wont be surprised if a big nerf hits us i guess its easier to nerf us to hell rather than give us any noticable smuggler content.
I came back to this profession because finaly we had been given specials which were what i think a smuggler should have and the promise of smuggling missions i only hope our profession stays as it is combatwise and our smuggling content is realised sometime in the near future.
MISTagent01 wrote:
Gilbert45 wrote:
Let me ask you this: Would "nerfing" LD to a 85% healthdrain not still allow the shot to be a viable strategy? I think it would. It would make an attacker think twice before going in for the kill he thinks is certain. If he is not fully healed he is risking instant death because he knows that the smuggler will employ every "dirty trick in the book" to win the fight and he should expect anything commign from a cornered scoundrel. This would keep the LD a unique and extremely powerfull attack, without giving it the current "I win" classification. No class, not jedi, not swordsmen, not smugglers, should EVER be able to perform an attack that drains a fully buffed/healed healthbar.
I can't believe this crap...Last Ditch drains the attacker to a SLIVER of health, regardless of whether you place the shot or not. Why isn't that good enough for you? Because there's a REAL possibility you'll lose XP? Boo-f*cking-hoo, here's a quarter, call someone who cares.
It is not the XP I am worried about. You are making assumptions. I am a full templated jedi and am not too worried about such loss. What concerns me is that a shot that can drain someones health 100% is breaking the game of PvP.
When are you going to realize that IT IS NOT AN I WIN BUTTON? Get it through your thick skull!
I will get it through my thick skull when LD works 4 out or 8 times. Not 7 out of 8. Or it is balanced down to not drain 100% health. That's when!
It's an "I'm getting my arse handed to me, let's hit the button and see if I get lucky" button.
Well then, in my very unscientific testing of LD it would seem that you get lucky 7 out of 8 times and none of the times do you incap yourself. Apparently I am not the only one who has come up with the same test results.
Sitting here and telling me that I'm not justified in asking why a gamebreaking profession hasn't been nerfed, while you're here asking for one skill of ours to be nerfed is totally hypocritical. Get off of your high horse, before you get a nosebleed.
Sorry you lost me here. I don't recall refuting your right to call for a nerf of a gamebreaking feature. That is certainly your right. As it is mine. If I have give the impression otherwise, you have my appology. I realy mean that.
PLEASE take your phallus-envying persona back to the Jedi boards where you belong? They're missing a glowing nerfbat. I'm sure the devs are waiting there to please every single one of you.
It is clear that you see my posts as an attack on smugglers in general and at you specifically. I can see how it can be construed (sp) as such. But I assure you, I would have made EXACTLY the same post if this gamebreaking feature was placed in, say, fencer. It is the gamebreaking feature that is the issue for me. Not the smugglers. Please understand that.
Gilbert45 wrote:
MISTagent01 wrote:
Gilbert45 wrote:
Let me ask you this: Would "nerfing" LD to a 85% healthdrain not still allow the shot to be a viable strategy? I think it would. It would make an attacker think twice before going in for the kill he thinks is certain. If he is not fully healed he is risking instant death because he knows that the smuggler will employ every "dirty trick in the book" to win the fight and he should expect anything commign from a cornered scoundrel. This would keep the LD a unique and extremely powerfull attack, without giving it the current "I win" classification. No class, not jedi, not swordsmen, not smugglers, should EVER be able to perform an attack that drains a fully buffed/healed healthbar.
I can't believe this crap...Last Ditch drains the attacker to a SLIVER of health, regardless of whether you place the shot or not. Why isn't that good enough for you? Because there's a REAL possibility you'll lose XP? Boo-f*cking-hoo, here's a quarter, call someone who cares.
It is not the XP I am worried about. You are making assumptions. I am a full templated jedi and am not too worried about such loss. What concerns me is that a shot that can drain someones health 100% is breaking the game of PvP.
MISTagent01 wrote:
Gilbert45 wrote:
----SNIP----
Ok, Gilbert, I can now see the reason why we're running around in circles.
In anything more than a 1 on 1 PvP situation, Last Ditch is suicide. Yep, I might take one person down in group PvP, but once I hit that button, even if I hit for 10 billion points of damage, it's only on one person, and I'm pretty much dead. I guess that's why I don't understand how you can say it's game breaking in PvP.
Second, it's my opinion that Jedi have no place in the GCW. However, since the developers never made another way for Jedi to PvP, I have to live with that.
Honestly though, do you really think that in PvP Last Ditch is a viable offensive?
Ahhh..now we are getting somewhere.
Ok, here's the thing:
I think with regards to the GCW we can find some common ground to stand on. In the movies jedi had a central role of either supporting the rebelion (light jedi) or supporting the empire (dark jedi). That was all very well and fine...for the movies! But it fails miserably in SWG. But the main reason why it fails is because jedi was made an alpha class. That should NEVER have happened and was in my oppinion the biggest mistake that SOE did. Rumor has it that SOE did not even want jedi to be alphaclass, but that LucasArts pushed for it to keep it "true" to the movies. I will have you know that I from the very beginning was an ardent advocate for making jedi a regular combat class that was just as easily attainable as any other combat profession. They would ofcourse have some force skills, but overall they would be equal to, say, a carbineer or whatever. Anyway...I digress.
As for LD being a viable offensive strategy; yes, it is. And I have seen it employed. A friend of mine intentionally (just to try it out) did not attack the guy she was dueling and just waiting for the health to drop appropriately. It worked like a charm (and she did not incap from it. 4 or 5 times in a row she did this without incapping herself but standing victorious). And if she can make it work, so can everyone else. It is simply a matter of timing it correctly. Whether the /RemoveAllHealth shot came in the beginning or in the end is a moot discussion. It is a viable offensive strategy. Not offensive in the sense that you can jump from around a corner and start spamming LD. No, in the sense that you can completely eradicate your opponent with one single shot. Not even firing your gun once, before the right moment.
So in a base takedown I will agree that there is no gamebreaking quality about LD. That's not what I meant when I said I was concerned about PvP. I was not being specific enough. I see that now.
Erryc wrote:
Gilbert,
Any attack on the Smuggling Community WILL be taken personally by about 99% of the people who post here. I'm not kidding.
As for 'I'm full templated it is gamebreaking and ruins PvP"....again, I say.
PVP IS NOT THE ONLY PART OF SWG. DON'T CALL IT GAME BREAKING IF IT DOES NOT INVOLVE ALL FACETS OF THE GAME! When will PvPers get this?
I attacked LD that just happens to be a smuggler skill. I did not attack the community. But I realize it is easy to percieve it as such and I can't blame you for thinking it. Just trying to be clear that it is not the man I am going for...it's the ball.
Yes I do realize that PvP is not the only part of SWG. But I think you understood perfectly well that I was refering to PvP when I was saying I had a problem with LD. For future reference: When I call LD a gamebreaking skill, I mean it only for PvP and not for all other facets of the game.
So are you saying that you would be perfectly ok with balancing LD in PvP and leave it "as is" for PvE? Much like what they did with Feign Death? Well that is definately an option that could be considered.