Smuggler Archive
Thread: Tying it all Together, Smuggling and You 2.0 UPDATED!!
MISTagent01
Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:05 pm
#27
Datink_Nieleft wrote:
To ana-mo-cara:
You sir, are a Weaponsmith that took up Smuggler to accent your business. I've read your previous posts.
You want to give bonuses to WS in slicing. You want to make it easier for someone to pick up Smuggler.
The ideas want to make me puke frankly. Is it not bad enough that Smuggler..being a stand-alone elite profession,...is slowly being torn apart? Now...you want the slicing ability for WS.
You don't want Smuggler to be "required" for WS, because its too skill point intensive...and you advertise your "Rule of Thumb" to always buy your gear already sliced?????
Here ya go...an idea: Get. Another. Account.
Just a /bump to make sure everyone sees this...you're my favorite Smuggler of the WEEK!
yimaz
Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:09 am
#28
MISTagent01 wrote:
Datink_Nieleft wrote:
To ana-mo-cara:
You sir, are a Weaponsmith that took up Smuggler to accent your business. I've read your previous posts.
You want to give bonuses to WS in slicing. You want to make it easier for someone to pick up Smuggler.
The ideas want to make me puke frankly. Is it not bad enough that Smuggler..being a stand-alone elite profession,...is slowly being torn apart? Now...you want the slicing ability for WS.
You don't want Smuggler to be "required" for WS, because its too skill point intensive...and you advertise your "Rule of Thumb" to always buy your gear already sliced?????
Here ya go...an idea: Get. Another. Account.
Just a /bump to make sure everyone sees this...you're my favorite Smuggler of the WEEK!
QFE
ana-mo-cara
Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:28 pm
#29
I do not get it to be frank. I am actually trying to suggest what would make for a more dynamic and fun hunt. Other then degenerateing a smuggler/bh bounty to the jedi format. Which can we be honest is fool of greifing, and little to no fair play. If you want to run smuggler exactly like the jedi hunts. Whats the point in being a smuggler if its exactly like the jedi hunts. Go be a jedi, or go be a bh.
Let me put it in a story arc frame of mind. Just to show you where the problems lie. Bounty hunter takes a smuggler mission goes outside of town calls for the imperial probot. Puts in the data. The probot launches a few minutes later the bounty hunter gets the location yavin. The bounty hunter goes to yavin and sends out seeker. The smuggler is in the other outpost the bh travels to other outpost. The bh sends out another droid. The target is no longer on the planet. Bh goes outside of outpost. Calls for another probot repeats. The smuggler is now on dantooine. The smuggler has JTL. The bh dosent so spends twenty minutes going to dantooine. The bounty hunter goes to the mineing outpost. Sends out the probot finds that the smuggler is nearer to the labor outpost. The bh travels to the labor outpost sends out another droid. The bounty is moveing the bh jumps on a speeder, and starts folloing the smuggler. The smuggler stops in a player city and goes into a private residence. The bounty hunter arrives the bounty hunter gets laughed at. So precedes to go five hundred meters out. The bh sends out another droid hopeing the smuggler thinks its safe. The bh finds out that his droid is blocked. So the bh has to stay in the same spot for ten minutes waiting to track the smuggler again. Only to find that the smuggler is no longer on the planet. Once again the bh has to repeat all the steps. With a low chance that hewill never even see the smuggler.
With speeders, jtl, and no actual activity to consume the smugglers attention the result is that the smuggler can move totally random and always be ahead of the bh. Now with that being the case what bh in his right mind would waste the time to even try to hunt down a smuggler. That is why you atleast need the bounty to be mission locked otherwise you get something ten times harder then hunting a jedi. You do not want the hunt to be easy, but you want it to be worthwhile. You want it to be a race of wits not a race of speeders and jtl.
Now if the mission is multiteired. You one force the smuggler to actually be doing something to be hunted. Which would be smuggleing. Get that actual smuggleing. You force the BH to actually hunt the player down, and try to outsmart the smuggler. Which is in my oppinion more rewarding No matter which side you are on its would be immersive in fun. Chaseing someone down for an hour to have them block you for ten minutes, and then spend another hour to have the same happen again is not fun thats tedious. You want the BH to hunt the smuggler because it is fun.
Blocking the FD from these missions. While it would be kind of a handicap is also necassary otherwise you have smugglers useing it the first time a bh shoots them, and why would the BH even waste the time then.
Its far better to have skills that not only help you evade, but can be applied to the rest of the game. Why view smuggler as a toy or compliment to BHs. The profession should actually have more skills to make it more dynamic. Instead of skills only angled towards evadeing BHs. In other words every skill I listed is something that would be very good for evadeing bhs, but could be used to some value in pvp/gcw.
Overloading a gun to make one mine. Keeps a bh from straight tracking a smuggler. Which in the end the bh would win unless there is a way to force a bh to risk guessing ahead of the smuggler.
Conceal allows smugglers an element that lets them hide. Cool in that a criminal would do that.
Sabotage being griefed. Well we already have players blocking off services in player cities. Unless you have like ten smugglers you are not going to cut off all the services. Just one that might be strategic.
Conceal 2 pretending to be another faction to spy or sneak in. Guess what we got that now already there are people that use second accounts as the other faction to do just that.
Calling in reinforcements from a shuttleport. Hell that would allow a smaller group to attack a larger group. Thats a good way to promote pvp. If you only have five people on your side and they got nine. Calling in some npcs to balance it would be great.
I just cannot see what the fun would be in open ended bounties. The same system that gives you the quality antics we have seen as of late from bhs, and jedis. Hideing in house. Hideing in the water, Gank squads, FD abuse pulled vehicles for quick run. Exactly why is a good idea to have the exact same system.
If the idea is to discuss discuss, but exactly where is the validity in personal attacks unless you have decided to be childish. Anyway I have stated why the system would not work, and what would work better. How a ten minute gag on bh droids is beyond me.
Datink_Nieleft
Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:13 pm
#30
I should have posted my previous post as stand-alone. The point of it is this:
No Smuggler worth his plasma would tell people to "Buy your gear already sliced". Are you kidding me???
No Smuggler worth his plasma would tell people that "WS's should get a bonus to slicing". Gee, lets just give em the whole *blank*ing tree!! 1). You don't get a bonus for something that's not even a skill in that profession! 2). WS make weapons,..Smugglers make the weapons WS make better. Nuff said.
That's what the attacks are for. Your posts on the matter IN the weaponsmith's forum.How do you expect someone who has read those posts to take you seriously here? You may be a Smuggler, but it is obvious to me that you don't give a poo about the profession. I am a Pistoleer,...you don't hear me ranting that last ditch should go to that profession.
You talk as if Smuggler is a waste of skill points in those posts, and that it should be less SP expensive.
That irritated me to no end.
Try to make friends with a Smuggler. Drop the profession. You'll have a lot more fun, and the SP to get whatever other profession you want.
P.S. > I actually liked some of your ideas,....and maybe if you got into Smuggler more you'd change your mind on some of the things you posted previously. Maybe its just because you haven't played the profession very long, if at all really.
jafar8
Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:43 pm
#31
Wow, Yimaz what else is there to say. . .
Is this just an idea; or has this idea been taken to the next level (development, testing, and so on)
P'luto B'rk-B'ark 
Master Smuggler
Master Smuggler
Datink_Nieleft
Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:52 pm
#32
jafar8 wrote:
Wow, Yimaz what else is there to say. . .
Is this just an idea; or has this idea been taken to the next level (development, testing, and so on)
P'luto B'rk-B'ark
And sorry Yimaz for derailing the thread slightly....I do like the idea...especially racing to the terminals
ana-mo-cara
Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:25 pm
#33
Um first of all I think your referring to my post on the weaponsmith forum when it comes to the weaponsmith sliceing bonus. Which was a free flowing idea. Which makes you seem a tad out of context. The weaponsmith correspondent talked about there being an issue where smuggleing was a required ajunct to being a weaponsmith.
I stated weaponsmith should get a plus slice bonus to equal out to master smuggler only aslong as the weaponsmith went and got sliceing 4. Which was an idea seeing as the point of that thread was that many weaponsmiths were being compelled to be smugglers to compete as weaponsmiths.
Also I would like to note in that thread I also posted a number of other ideas that would totally abolish crafter smugglers. Example makeing sliced weapons non vendor items. Forceing a player to actually go get a weapon sliced rather then buying the item sliced in the first place.
I also listed off makeing sliceing a locked stat. Example master smuggler slices being 30 percent, and sliceing four 25 percent. So as to eliminate part of the value in buying presliced items. Which many players do to avoid the risk of a bad slice.
I also stated in the thread that I was trying not to be biased. Since I was stateing ideas that would either supremely advantage the weaponsmith, or the smuggler I think that point was apparant. I do agree with the correspondent that presliced weapons are an issue for weaponsmiths, and to a degree with smugglers.
The phenomena boils down to a requirement. Since many players will not buy an item unless its already sliced. This means freelance smugglers are being devalued. It also means weaponsmith quality is becomeing less of an issue since a huge chunk of the value in weapons right now is the better slice. Not how good the item was preslice.
Anyway the entire point of that thread was as follows. Weaponsmiths are being forced to be master smugglers aswell. If they do not become master smugglers they suffer financially in game. Weapons sales are harder, and even a decent weaponsmith is haveing trouble competeing if they do not slice their own stuff. Is there a way to make this less of an issue in the game. Is there a way to let weaponsmiths be weaponsmiths and smugglers be smugglers.
The point of these boards is discussion. Not I hate your idea I hope satan pokes out your eyes. The ideas I gave were varied and were worthy of thought. I thought the non vendorability of sliced weapons was a reasonable idea. Actually createing more business for smugglers, and allowing weaponsmiths more flexibility in their chosen craft. Instead of haveing to be master smugglers ontop of master smith. In that idea the only players that would suffer would be master smith master smuggler which I am. So how that could be seen as self service is totally baffleing to me.
Thochkored
Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:57 am
#34
ana-mo-cara wrote:
Now if the mission is multiteired. You one force the smuggler to actually be doing something to be hunted. Which would be smuggleing. Get that actual smuggleing. You force the BH to actually hunt the player down, and try to outsmart the smuggler. Which is in my oppinion more rewarding No matter which side you are on its would be immersive in fun. Chaseing someone down for an hour to have them block you for ten minutes, and then spend another hour to have the same happen again is not fun thats tedious. You want the BH to hunt the smuggler because it is fun.
Blocking the FD from these missions. While it would be kind of a handicap is also necassary otherwise you have smugglers useing it the first time a bh shoots them, and why would the BH even waste the time then.
The problem with a BH coming after a Smuggler everytime they take a smuggling mission is insane. Smugglers don't get hunted by BH because they smuggle. They get caught by the Empire or local authorities. If another fanction wanted to disrupt or steal a Smugglers cargo, they wouldn't hire a BH, it would cost to much, they'd send their hired thugs. Smugglers shouldn't be hunted by BH's because they are Smuggling, they should be hunted because they failed or stole from their employer. That is how your idea is flawed.
Plus, nerfing a skill under certain circumstances is ludicrous. Why don't you go tothe Jedi forums and tell them they can no longer use their Lightsabers when they encounter a BH, I'm sure that will go over well. I agree that FD is being abused, but give the BHs a skill in the investigative branch to counter FD andif they fail, have us appear dead, it is not until they actually get back to their employer do they realize that we were FD.
yimaz
Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:45 pm
#35
ana-mo-cara wrote:
I do not get it to be frank. I am actually trying to suggest what would make for a more dynamic and fun hunt. Other then degenerateing a smuggler/bh bounty to the jedi format. Which can we be honest is fool of greifing, and little to no fair play. If you want to run smuggler exactly like the jedi hunts. Whats the point in being a smuggler if its exactly like the jedi hunts. Go be a jedi, or go be a bh.
Let me put it in a story arc frame of mind. Just to show you where the problems lie. Bounty hunter takes a smuggler mission goes outside of town calls for the imperial probot. Puts in the data. The probot launches a few minutes later the bounty hunter gets the location yavin. The bounty hunter goes to yavin and sends out seeker. The smuggler is in the other outpost the bh travels to other outpost. The bh sends out another droid. The target is no longer on the planet. Bh goes outside of outpost. Calls for another probot repeats. The smuggler is now on dantooine. The smuggler has JTL. The bh dosent so spends twenty minutes going to dantooine. The bounty hunter goes to the mineing outpost. Sends out the probot finds that the smuggler is nearer to the labor outpost. The bh travels to the labor outpost sends out another droid. The bounty is moveing the bh jumps on a speeder, and starts folloing the smuggler. The smuggler stops in a player city and goes into a private residence. The bounty hunter arrives the bounty hunter gets laughed at. So precedes to go five hundred meters out. The bh sends out another droid hopeing the smuggler thinks its safe. The bh finds out that his droid is blocked. So the bh has to stay in the same spot for ten minutes waiting to track the smuggler again. Only to find that the smuggler is no longer on the planet. Once again the bh has to repeat all the steps. With a low chance that hewill never even see the smuggler.
With speeders, jtl, and no actual activity to consume the smugglers attention the result is that the smuggler can move totally random and always be ahead of the bh. Now with that being the case what bh in his right mind would waste the time to even try to hunt down a smuggler. That is why you atleast need the bounty to be mission locked otherwise you get something ten times harder then hunting a jedi. You do not want the hunt to be easy, but you want it to be worthwhile. You want it to be a race of wits not a race of speeders and jtl.
Now if the mission is multiteired. You one force the smuggler to actually be doing something to be hunted. Which would be smuggleing. Get that actual smuggleing. You force the BH to actually hunt the player down, and try to outsmart the smuggler. Which is in my oppinion more rewarding No matter which side you are on its would be immersive in fun. Chaseing someone down for an hour to have them block you for ten minutes, and then spend another hour to have the same happen again is not fun thats tedious. You want the BH to hunt the smuggler because it is fun.
Blocking the FD from these missions. While it would be kind of a handicap is also necassary otherwise you have smugglers useing it the first time a bh shoots them, and why would the BH even waste the time then.
Its far better to have skills that not only help you evade, but can be applied to the rest of the game. Why view smuggler as a toy or compliment to BHs. The profession should actually have more skills to make it more dynamic. Instead of skills only angled towards evadeing BHs. In other words every skill I listed is something that would be very good for evadeing bhs, but could be used to some value in pvp/gcw.
Overloading a gun to make one mine. Keeps a bh from straight tracking a smuggler. Which in the end the bh would win unless there is a way to force a bh to risk guessing ahead of the smuggler.
Conceal allows smugglers an element that lets them hide. Cool in that a criminal would do that.
Sabotage being griefed. Well we already have players blocking off services in player cities. Unless you have like ten smugglers you are not going to cut off all the services. Just one that might be strategic.
Conceal 2 pretending to be another faction to spy or sneak in. Guess what we got that now already there are people that use second accounts as the other faction to do just that.
Calling in reinforcements from a shuttleport. Hell that would allow a smaller group to attack a larger group. Thats a good way to promote pvp. If you only have five people on your side and they got nine. Calling in some npcs to balance it would be great.
I just cannot see what the fun would be in open ended bounties. The same system that gives you the quality antics we have seen as of late from bhs, and jedis. Hideing in house. Hideing in the water, Gank squads, FD abuse pulled vehicles for quick run. Exactly why is a good idea to have the exact same system.
If the idea is to discuss discuss, but exactly where is the validity in personal attacks unless you have decided to be childish. Anyway I have stated why the system would not work, and what would work better. How a ten minute gag on bh droids is beyond me.
Dude im getting really tired of fighting with you, its ok to agree to disagree and point of fact WHAT WE DO IS ILLEGAL. Yet again it is a gradual visibility system no one is getting a smuggler mission and then getting on the BH boards. Many Smugglers want to be hunted because IT IS CONTENT, watch a movie and then tell me its not. With all due respect Im done trying to get you to see a point of view other then your own, good luck to ya.
/bow
Message Edited by yimaz on 01-14-2005 03:00 PM
Datink_Nieleft
Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:48 pm
#36
ana-mo-cara wrote:
Um first of all I think your referring to my post on the weaponsmith forum when it comes to the weaponsmith sliceing bonus. Which was a free flowing idea. Which makes you seem a tad out of context. The weaponsmith correspondent talked about there being an issue where smuggleing was a required ajunct to being a weaponsmith.
I stated weaponsmith should get a plus slice bonus to equal out to master smuggler only aslong as the weaponsmith went and got sliceing 4. Which was an idea seeing as the point of that thread was that many weaponsmiths were being compelled to be smugglers to compete as weaponsmiths.
Also I would like to note in that thread I also posted a number of other ideas that would totally abolish crafter smugglers. Example makeing sliced weapons non vendor items. Forceing a player to actually go get a weapon sliced rather then buying the item sliced in the first place.
I also listed off makeing sliceing a locked stat. Example master smuggler slices being 30 percent, and sliceing four 25 percent. So as to eliminate part of the value in buying presliced items. Which many players do to avoid the risk of a bad slice.
I also stated in the thread that I was trying not to be biased. Since I was stateing ideas that would either supremely advantage the weaponsmith, or the smuggler I think that point was apparant. I do agree with the correspondent that presliced weapons are an issue for weaponsmiths, and to a degree with smugglers.
The phenomena boils down to a requirement. Since many players will not buy an item unless its already sliced. This means freelance smugglers are being devalued. It also means weaponsmith quality is becomeing less of an issue since a huge chunk of the value in weapons right now is the better slice. Not how good the item was preslice.
Anyway the entire point of that thread was as follows. Weaponsmiths are being forced to be master smugglers aswell. If they do not become master smugglers they suffer financially in game. Weapons sales are harder, and even a decent weaponsmith is haveing trouble competeing if they do not slice their own stuff. Is there a way to make this less of an issue in the game. Is there a way to let weaponsmiths be weaponsmiths and smugglers be smugglers.
The point of these boards is discussion. Not I hate your idea I hope satan pokes out your eyes. The ideas I gave were varied and were worthy of thought. I thought the non vendorability of sliced weapons was a reasonable idea. Actually createing more business for smugglers, and allowing weaponsmiths more flexibility in their chosen craft. Instead of haveing to be master smugglers ontop of master smith. In that idea the only players that would suffer would be master smith master smuggler which I am. So how that could be seen as self service is totally baffleing to me.
So let me get this straight..in your idea...if I mastered weaponsmith..and slicing IV..I could slice as well as a master smuggler??? Then, pray tell...if this was the case..what kind of economy are you creating for freelance slicers??? How about inter-dependance between professions??? The game was designed to be that way. The ONLY way you can stop M. Weaponsmith's from being M. Smugglers is to copy some other MMORPG's and make the skill lines singular..i.e. you get 1 craft, 1 combat.
Now..your third paragraph...that's a idea thats been echoed all over this forum..and I commend you on it. I actually agree with some of your ideas,..however others well....no.
I guess from now on I will agree to disagree,..and be civil
yimaz
Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:20 pm
#37
Datink_Nieleft wrote:
jafar8 wrote:
Wow, Yimaz what else is there to say. . .
Is this just an idea; or has this idea been taken to the next level (development, testing, and so on)
P'luto B'rk-B'ark
And sorry Yimaz for derailing the thread slightly....I do like the idea...especially racing to the terminals
No, no derail away, lord knowsI master the thread hijack profession months ago. Its all the love my friend
Message Edited by yimaz on 01-14-2005 05:09 PM
ana-mo-cara
Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:17 pm
#39
The point of the mine gun. Is you do not see it lying on the ground its a proximity mine. A hidden one even. All the other player would need is to get too close to it for it to blowup. Ergo a BH could not just center track another player. A BH has terrain negotiation. So eventually will overtake the smuggler.
Another point is why exactly would smugglers want a duplicate of a jedi hunt. Smugglers are not jedis. You fail a mission, and boom you cannot show your face in public. You cannot run a shop. You cannot stop and slice goods for other players. You can spend five or six days hideing, and not actually getting to interact with other players.
While if you make it an hour and half to two hour mission. Thats good for all concern you get the thrill of smuggleing you got danger. Even a weak smuggler can afford to do it. Its done and over with in a short amount of time.
If the mission is too easy there is absolutely no reason to put in a smuggler bounty system. If its too hard no smuggler in their right mind would run the mission. Lest a bh catch them and blackbar them.
I know alot of you havent actually seen how sick and twisted player bounties have actually gotten.
Corpse camping hideing in houses hideing in water constant pull vehicles gank squads protection squads blackbarring random logouts.
Add to that unless something was done about FD no bounty hunter in the game will even waste the time to hunt a smuggler. So unless they nerf FD, or make it fail on BHs. Both bad ideas your never going to get hunted by a BH. Meanwhile if its a state applied by doing a mission. Say the BH must bring back your head as proof.
Open ended bounties equal greifing.
Untainted FD means no point in hunting a smuggler. No risk at all for failing a mission.
This means if you are going to get xd by a BH odds are you are complicate in it.
Open ended bounties with no skill loss equals cheap creds. Smuggler takes mission just to fail it and get wasted by bh pal to split the money.
The system the poster is makeing is one of honesty policy on all sides. We all the players have to count on the smugglers, and bhs not to team to make easy money. The BH has to count on the smuggler to give him a fair chance to kill. Since why waste the time even if he will ista FD. The smuggler will have to count on a BH not to be a stalker. Some guy following him to wait for the smuggler to slice something for somebody and single two him in the back. Can we actually count on players not to abuse such a system. Someone will abuse the system. Even if its no danger smuggler.