Smuggler Archive
Thread: A BH asking about Feign Death--please don't flame
Abai
Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:36 am
#27
Dwiggz wrote:
don't use this plz !!!! where gonna get nerfed.
but if it's moved to master, i think it fix the prob.Message Edited by Dwiggz on 11-25-2004 01:26 PM
Actually they can't nerf something that has been removed. What I'm talking about is to remove FD and get something more dynamic. Honestly I've never thought FD was apropriate. Try to play dead in front of a wild animal... it sure doesn't save you from getting eaten...
Anyway I don't see why it couldn't be possible to have FD as a PvE and then something more dynamic for PvP.
Abai Kunanbayev
wyzer301
Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:54 am
#28
Well I'm glad to see this has gotten calm responses. Thanks everyone.
I think the most interesting thing I'm noticing so far is when people say that they would be for a chance to fail, but against a counter. I'll try and explain my reasoning for agreeing with (what I understand to be an intended mechanic of) counters to FD.
Player A and Smuggler B fight. Player A is whipping Smuggler B's behind, so Smuggler B uses Feign Death. Under the current working, Player A is convinced that Smuggler B is dead, and leaves him be.
But let's say Player A is Bounty Hunter A instead. Bounty Hunter A is being paid to make sure Smuggler B is dead (hopefully a soon to be added part of gameplay, but if not, just consider Smuggler B not to be a real smuggler, but rather a Jedi with FD). Presumably, Bounty Hunter A will at least poke the corpse with a stick or something. Personally, I'd probably take the head of my mark to the person paying me too. But let's say the BH does something more than just poke the body with a stick, let's say it fires some hire powered shot at the corpse. I would assume that if you hurt the faked-corpse enough, they'd probably say ow or something, thus showing they are not dead. Basically, I just don't think every single person would be convinced by someone playing opossum. I thought an interesting suggestion was the /checkcorpse skill.
Another interesting thing I saw noted was someone calling a BH 3xxx/TKA/FD-smuggler the most powerful profession in game. Regardless of the fact that we have Jedi Knights, I still wouldn't consider this to be true. I would assume a TKA who had not invested skills in smuggling and BH, but instead invested those skills in more defense or something, is still more powerful. Both professions fight with TKA tactics, so I would assume the player who had better spent there points towards that would be more powerful.
I think the most interesting thing I'm noticing so far is when people say that they would be for a chance to fail, but against a counter. I'll try and explain my reasoning for agreeing with (what I understand to be an intended mechanic of) counters to FD.
Player A and Smuggler B fight. Player A is whipping Smuggler B's behind, so Smuggler B uses Feign Death. Under the current working, Player A is convinced that Smuggler B is dead, and leaves him be.
But let's say Player A is Bounty Hunter A instead. Bounty Hunter A is being paid to make sure Smuggler B is dead (hopefully a soon to be added part of gameplay, but if not, just consider Smuggler B not to be a real smuggler, but rather a Jedi with FD). Presumably, Bounty Hunter A will at least poke the corpse with a stick or something. Personally, I'd probably take the head of my mark to the person paying me too. But let's say the BH does something more than just poke the body with a stick, let's say it fires some hire powered shot at the corpse. I would assume that if you hurt the faked-corpse enough, they'd probably say ow or something, thus showing they are not dead. Basically, I just don't think every single person would be convinced by someone playing opossum. I thought an interesting suggestion was the /checkcorpse skill.
Another interesting thing I saw noted was someone calling a BH 3xxx/TKA/FD-smuggler the most powerful profession in game. Regardless of the fact that we have Jedi Knights, I still wouldn't consider this to be true. I would assume a TKA who had not invested skills in smuggling and BH, but instead invested those skills in more defense or something, is still more powerful. Both professions fight with TKA tactics, so I would assume the player who had better spent there points towards that would be more powerful.
Jaguarrr
Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:59 am
#29
Ternque01 wrote:
My personal feeling is that Feign Death has no place in a bounty hunt situation. It does have it's place in large-scale battles though where one corpse is anonymous in a field of them.
Just disable the use of FD during a bounty fight.
FD is supposed to be exactly for bounty countering.
Ternque01
Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:10 am
#30
In it's current form, it is anti-climactic for BH missions. I do agree with your sentiment that it is for countering bounties, but at the very least I think FD should be extremely unreliable at its lower levels and have a timer (say 15 minutes) that prevents spamming of it in PvP situations.
It is destroying bounty missions, and at the very least I can permit it being a extremely unreliable way of ending bounties. If smuggler bounties were ever introduced, you would be looking at ALL smuggler bounties ending in FD - what would be the point of that???
What smugglers need are more active ways of avoiding bounties. There were a good number of various dirty fighting moves suggested that allow a smuggler to flee a bounty hunter.
One suggestion was a shot that stops a player in their tracks for a certain number of seconds. Another was a smuggler ability to pull out a bike during combat. There are a zillion more, but even from a role playing perspective I cannot from a stable mind think that playing dead is a viable way to escape a bounty hunter. You will die.
Playing dead does not equal effective way to avoid death during a bounty mission.
Hasun
Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:20 am
#31
FD should be unbreakable but a skill that powerful should be moved to master to stop it being abused by FOTM templates
LaughingWolf
Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:21 am
#32
I admit that it seem perfectly reasonable to me that a BH would always make very sure the "target" is really dead. The idea of a Jedi Knight being fooled by FD do sound strange too, from a roleplay point of view.
For BH and Jedi using Smuggler skills, then the solution of making FD with a high chance of failling at low level, making it very successful at Master Smuggler, is a solution. But it is a solution that might not work as well in the case where Smugglers end up in BH terminals too, because while we must be able to evade them, we must not have an automatic success at it, I agree with that. Otherwhise , where is the fun, the danger?
I do not want to see Smugglers suddenly nerfed to death and become sitting ducks. Just taking away one of our most useful effective skills (or nerfing so hard it become useless) would be real bad. I'm sure some solutions can be found that would be immersive, logical and fair for everyone. There have been a few very interesting suggestions in the multiple threads about FD lately on this forum.
For BH and Jedi using Smuggler skills, then the solution of making FD with a high chance of failling at low level, making it very successful at Master Smuggler, is a solution. But it is a solution that might not work as well in the case where Smugglers end up in BH terminals too, because while we must be able to evade them, we must not have an automatic success at it, I agree with that. Otherwhise , where is the fun, the danger?
I do not want to see Smugglers suddenly nerfed to death and become sitting ducks. Just taking away one of our most useful effective skills (or nerfing so hard it become useless) would be real bad. I'm sure some solutions can be found that would be immersive, logical and fair for everyone. There have been a few very interesting suggestions in the multiple threads about FD lately on this forum.
EraHalcyon
Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:33 am
#33
Or, there is an alternative:
Since the current controversy involves BH's and Jedi using FD to escape each other, how about a negative skill modifier going up one of the BH and Jedi branches? It would keep FD working as intended for us, but it would be harder for a jedi or BH to successfully use it.
LaughingWolf
Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:47 am
#34
Ok but what will happen if something is changed so Smugglers can end up on BH terminals?
Ternque01
Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:49 am
#35
Yea, but the only way to keep the functionality of Feign Death without nerfing it would be to disable its use during bounty missions.
It has no place in a bounty fight. This way, FD is still useable in combat in PvP, but it won't destroy bounty missions. Bounty missions should end decisively with either one person running away or someone dying.
Playing dead isn't going to fool someone who gets a paycheck ensuring it.
Just put in a /checkcorpse command for BH's or plain out disable it during bounty missions, both for the hunter and the hunted.
Daturaze
Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:04 pm
#36
Well, I'm not in favour of disabling the FD skill in any circumstances.If Smugglers and BH are going to get into conflicts then there should be a /checkcorpose command. I also think that if the battle is between a Master Smuggler and a Novice Bounty Hunter that the Smuggler should still win more of the dice rolls to fool the BH.
Of course in the instances when the /checkcorpose fails for the BH, the BH would be within his right to take his meager Commando skills - blackbar the Smuggler and leave a bomb droid that won't budge from position for a day or so to prevent the Smuggler from just logging out and back in later.
But that's just me 
Cheers
Dat
Ternque01
Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:14 pm
#37
I don't agree. It takes zero skill to walk up to a corpse to check it's pulse. When a person is playing dead, there is nothing they can do to prevent someone from checking their pulse or life signs, period.
I don't feel there should bea dice roll involved in FD during a bounty mission. It breaks the immersion completely when a BH knowingly fails adice roll but cannot death blow their target because their toon is too "stupid" to check a pulse.
I think FD is a poor counter to BH's, and it is showing in the game, especially as of late.
Daturaze
Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:30 pm
#38
Hey Kirk managed to fake Spock out into thinking he was dead
Maybe FD needs to be more immersive - the Smuggler can lower his heartbeat to be virtually undetectable, or drughimself to temporarily stop his heartbeat, etc. Of course if FD is defined by suggestions like this then it would affect how it works, (risking possible real death, no control of duration of FD, etc) but I still maintain it should be possible to give the appearance of death.
What if the /checkcorpse command was a vitals check and also a last shot? the BH gets to make a last shot, which would be the damage limit of the weapon to try and kill the Smuggler once and for all?
Sure it could be dice roll, but if it is, then there should be buffs, foods, spices, etc that can enhance the stats for the BH to try to even it out. Still contendthata Master Smuggler should be able to outbluff a Novice Green BH.
Is this one of those "Agree to Disagree" situations
Cheers
Dat
Dat
MISTagent01
Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:03 pm
#39
Nicolas_Frost wrote:
MISTagent01 wrote:
I am so sick and tired of seeing Jedi possumwhena BH chases them. They are Jedi, they need to die with courage. Pansies. Or all the 3000 BH/Master Swordsman/0010 Smuggler Bounty Hunters either.They are the most powerful profession in game, but tons of them won't stay standing and duke it out with a BH.
Now, I don't condone the use of FD in PvP anyway, but just to clarify, Jedi still hold rank as the most powerful profession. Last time I checked, a higher level Jedi Knight was pretty much unstoppable.
Lastly, I know technically that combo you mentioned is a BH, but that's not a real BH in my book. That's like saying all Jedi with 0010 Smuggler aretrue Smugglers.
Then again, I'm bitter today, so I apologize if I'm being snippy.