Smuggler Archive

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Jaguarrr wrote:

I think there is a HUGE missunderstanding about what scene gave the birth to feigndeath. The actuall FD is just a patchwork, Its nothing more than a "Oooh. Arrrgh. You hit me." and dropping on the back.

The following scene I remember from the Han-Solo-Triology (free from my mind)

Han Solo is on Coruscant, it is way before he met Chewie. He made some Hutt-related alien angry for stealing its precious art collection. For this he had a bounty on his head. This of course is enough to get a few bounty hunters after him, but not just that. A shadow from his past shows up, the man who took care of him in his childhood (he beat Han up, made him steal and beg, not a nice guy) and a bounty hunter.

So they finally meet on some ceiling of Coruscant (Han graduated the Imperial Academy). The "stepfather" of Han is some kind of greedy a$$hat, he wants the money. They start to fight and Han gets cornered, in this moment that other bounty hunter shows up. "Stepfather" and BH shot each other... (weee Smugglers Luck).

The BH looks a bit like Han (Smugglers Luck again), so Han takes the blaster of his "stepfather" and shots in the face of the dead BH and tosses him down the roof.

This is how FD should work. Fake Your Death and not Play Dead

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Wow! That's funny. I wonder if Smugglers can use their underworld connections to "acquire" a body and use it in such a fashion. Sick, but effective.

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riotcontrol wrote:

Temporary solution: Moving PvP Feign Death to Master Smuggler, and leaving PvE Feign Death on Dirty Fighting 1.

This does not take possible Smuggler/player bounties into consideration, and the issue will reappear if they are ever implemented.

Permanent solution: Making Feign Death an active skill with counters and chances to fail.

This one would allow a Smuggler to escape quickly by confusing the opponent rather than just lie there while everyone prods him with a stick. This is, as far as I can remember, more or less Caylin's vision of the 'proper' FD system, and if it's implemented in a reasonable way, would be the only way to make FD a believable and non-immersion-breaking move in PvP.

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I have always in some way disliked FD... granted it's a good way to avoid the occasional incap/db from mobs. Still it has never been that good for PvP and it is in it's current state prone to misuse.

As I see it then FD should be removed altogether and instead a skill implemented that is more of a diversion. It should be an opposite of BH investigation and available at Novice Smuggler. Using this skill should have a 10% chance of failure to anyone and it should be so that a BH at the equal level of investigation as the level of the diverding smuggler has 50% chance of seeing through the diversion. Thus a MBH and Master Smuggler would be 50/50, a MBH versus Novice Smuggler would be 80/20 and so on.

The way this skill would work should be that if a smuggler is successful combat will end and he will get x minutes to get away. This however wouldn't lead to the bounty failing, but rather that the BH would have to get back on the chase. The skill would have a timer on it so that it can only be used again after x minutes, (30 minutes to an hour, depending on how tests would work out) in which time it wouldn't be possible to log out. This way the target wouldn't be able to use the skill to get away and then just log out before the BH has a chance to track the target again.

I honesly do not know if it is possible to make this kind of implementation, but I think it would lead to more immersion.

On a sidenote I think it's redicilous that when someone gets on the terminals, they can just stay logged out for some time and then return to the game when things are in the clear. I think that you should only get of the terminals when you have been logged on with your character for a set time.

Abai Kunanbayev

don't use this plz !!!! where gonna get nerfed.

but if it's moved to master, i think it fix the prob.

Message Edited by Dwiggz on 11-25-2004 01:26 PM

Personally, moving FD to Master Smuggler would be a minus because while I have been a Smuggler for a few months now, I am only 4440 (and I'm staying that way). I think spices don't benifit me in any way so I'm got even going to bother with that tree. What I'm trying to say is that FD has saved my backside in many a corvette mission, and if I don't master Smuggler, I'll... Die more than usual...

My Solution(longish):

Keep the skill where it is, but change the function of the skill mod. Right now, as a Master Smuggler, I remember all the times /feigndeath has failed on me, all four of them. One at Dirty Fighting 1, two at Dirty Fighting 4, and one as a Master Smuggler. The mod shouldn't determine whether or not you can fall down and play dead, the mod should determine how well you can, since its unlikely we'll ever be able to fake our deaths. Then spread the skill mod throughout the Smuggler tree, not just in the Dirty Fighting branch.

At lower levels(0010), the effect mainly helps you against NPCs, with some possibility of helping fool players(minimum success rate of 5%). As you level, the success rate increases(capping at 95% as a Master).

Give Bounty Hunters a skill at 1000 that allows them to inspect corpses. Meaning after a Smuggler Feigns, the Bounty Hunter opens a radial on the Smuggler and selects the Inspect option, or can just target the smuggler and use /inspect. The skill mod for this should be spread about Hunter just as the Feign Death mod would in Smuggler. Minimum Success rate of 5% and max of 95%, actual percentages vary depending on each players levels(2040 Smuggler vs 3321 Bounty Hunter). Players with equal levels(2222 Smuggler vs 2222 Hunter, two Masters, etcetera) are a coin toss to see who would win.

So the Jedi are happy, give them a similar skill that lets them sence life in people, but include it in only *one* of the Jedi trees, and balance it just like the Inspect and Feign Death mods.

Now here comes the fun part.

Say a Bounty Hunter has a mission on a Smuggler. The Smuggler Feigns, and wins the dice roll when the Hunter inspects. The hunter *fails* the mission, gets no reward, but, can pick the mission back up for that Smuggler in twenty-four hours. Conversely, the Smuggler Feigns, but loses the dice roll, the Hunter can immediately attack the Smuggler again, and since Feign Death is essentually using a Knockdown on yourselve, the Smuggler is very vulnerable, but can still try to get back up.

So, why wouldn't a Hunter just camp the Smuggler? I mean, he's gotta move sometime, right? Well, to stop this before it starts, add in a three to five minute timer starting from the point the Smuggler feigned, if the Hunter doesn't /inspect in that length of time, it's just like the Smuggler winning the dice roll.

Here comes the even more fun part: How to keep Bounty Hunters and Jedi from abusing Feign Death on each other, and potentially Smugglers, if those types of missions ever come out.

If a Bounty Hunter uses Feign Death in the midst of a Hunting mission, they suffer a set of penalties.
Penalty for Bounty Hunter:
Failure of the mission.
TEF on mark cleared
Inability to pick up the same mission for three days.
Next two or three missions are for less money and/or experience.
Angry letters from Boba Fett.

If a Jedi uses Feign Death because they don't want to fight, even though Jedi is built to be a PvP class, they suffer a set of penalties.
Penalty for Jedi:
Experience loss equal to 75% of that lost when incapacitated(maybe 125% instead of 75%)
Visibility raised slightly
Bounty Hunter loses TEF, but does not lose mission.
Can't be healed while playing opposum(to stop Jedi from calling doctors in while on thier backs)
The Emperor sends you nude photos of himself as punishment.


Now, why did I not list any penalties for Smugglers? Well, the skill *is* in the Smuggler tree. Why should we be penalized for using one of our own skills?

I love your idea, Nicolas Frost.

And it also solve right then the problem that could arise if Smugglers end up one day on BH terminals.

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MISTagent01 wrote:

I am so sick and tired of seeing Jedi possumwhena BH chases them. They are Jedi, they need to die with courage. Pansies. Or all the 3000 BH/Master Swordsman/0010 Smuggler Bounty Hunters either.They are the most powerful profession in game, but tons of them won't stay standing and duke it out with a BH.

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Spec-Ops wrote:
it SOUNDS reasonable, but its still unfair that we get screwed cause of jedi and BH... but whatever..

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Wait you mean to say we're going to get screwed because of JEDI's? And passed up for BH revamp? AGAIN?

Im actually not surprised whats this the 5th time now?

As was said already, moving FD to master is a temporary fix that hurts many smugglers and doesn't take into account the potential of smuggler bounties in the future. (This is in no way a flame; the original post was done well. I just think it's a bad idea.)

A better solution is to give BHs (and smugglers) the ability to see through FD, with a 50/50 chance of either side winning when at master. If one or both sides isn't a master, whoever has a higher Dirty Fighting or Investigation skill would have the advantage--though I don't ever think it should be impossible for a smuggler's feign to be detected or for a bounty hunter to be fooled.

FD needs a couple other changes, too, like breaking aggro, and actually appearing as a corpse in PVP, but as for this discussion, we need a long-term solution, not one that only applies to a couple of professions dabbling in ours.

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JTGAlpha wrote:

I said it a'fore and I'll say it agin...

Moving it to the master box may or may not be a good idea, but it's a band-aid on a gun shot wound...

What REALLY needs to happen to FD is that it needs a higher chance of failing, even at the top of the skill, but when it DOES work, combat needs to effectively be OVER. No blocking people from shuttling, no black barring. Done is done, until they get back up and are combatable again (through duel, BH boards, faction, whatever...).

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QFE