Smuggler Archive
Thread: Is this indeed the Feast of Electricnomad?
Ternque01 wrote:
We have no documented proof that someone with slicing 4 can slice just as well as a Master Smuggler.
I believe it's mentioned that without the loot you can't do the level 4+ slices, which to me sounds alot like masters will be equal to level 4 slicers since they will both be capped, the master from the lack of the loot and the slicer from lack of ability/skill.
How does camping the DWB have to do with being a smuggler? Risk vs Reward. It is the very essence and lifeblood of our profession. It is a risk to go down there. Sure, item breakage was also a risk, but getting components from DANGEROUS NPC's or creatures is also a risk, and in my book, that risk is every bit as valid as the risk of item breakage.
Going to DWB is not even close to the same as breakage. The new proposed looting is the risk before you even slice, once the slice is done there is zero risk to the client. So every client is going to want the loot slice simply because they have nothing to lose later on, with breakage the client would have to decide if that chance was worth the slice for them.
Have you considered that these slicing components will be rewards from our future smuggling missions?
If this was the case from the start I would have no real complaint, since we would all have an equal shot at obtaining the parts we need without needing an army of jedi to get them.
GanymedePharuu wrote:
i'm sorry Axob, i have to disagree on the "Risk Vs. Reward" point.
this is NOT the type of Risk vs. Reward we should be getting.
we're talking about illegal items here. a sliced weapon is contraband. it should be risky to even carry it, let alone equip it and use it!
the risk in "Plan B" is on the wrong end of the slicing system!
it needs to have the risk on the SLICED ITEM. not the obtaining of a good slice (unless you're talking about the meeting to have your weapons sliced being busted up by Stormtroopers).
loot does NOT cut it as a Risk in a slicing system.
zakalex wrote:
Going to DWB is not even close to the same as breakage. The new proposed looting is the risk before you even slice, once the slice is done there is zero risk to the client. So every client is going to want the loot slice simply because they have nothing to lose later on, with breakage the client would have to decide if that chance was worth the slice for them.
Ternque01 wrote:
Thomen wrote:
Yea.. maybe you can move your assfrom your high horse and diewith me? i was in theDWBwith a full group and we died within minutes.
Which proves my point that it IS a risk. Furthermore, you will find that high level slices will be RARE, which is the way it was in the Star Wars canon.
Dont get me wrong.. i m not against the point keeping the high end slices rare. i m against placing the components in places where not everyone has achance to get them. You can keep the components rare if you adjust the loot table of more random and accesible mobs instead placing the stuff in dungeons where hardly anyone can get into.
The RISK in the currently discussedsystem with loot components is for those who try to get the items, which is the same risk if you just go down into DWB to craft a jetpack, a piece of Mando, or even take a sighseeing tour.
I can help but agree with you and applaud your writing.
I like you started this game with smuggler ambitions and I will leave this game knowing I was a master smuggler. stretching back to October'03. But I have seen this battle fought as you have and I have seen the devs say things like "We will no longer read the smuggler forum or take suggestions from the smuggler community". It is statements Like this that have solidified my resolve that SWG as a viable MMORPG is dieing. When a game maker refuses to listen to its customers they have already decided that they dont want to sell the produce. SWG was just so SOE could make money while they drove all their players out of EQ. so when EQ2 came out they could get them back.We have seen it before Im sure we'll see it again. I will be here until the end as a Master Smuggler but I have no hopes of ever smuggling anything.
Only a Master Smuggler will be able to do the top level slice. The whole system of customization points and everything is still there. It's just also going to require a rare component.
So only a Master Smuggler will be able to do the top slice. A 0400 will not be able to do the top slice, even if they have the rare component, because they won't have the customization points needed to do the top slice.
Unless I'm completely mistaken and the whole "100 points of customization" was taken out. I don't think it was though.
We'll have to wait until the loot system is up on TC to see this.
Axob, have you really considered what the price will be for those drops?
I've yet to see any loot from elite mobs dip below the million credit mark. That kind of pay out for a single slice job would be nice, I have to admit but realisticly, how much of the player base can actually afford that? How many players do you know who can afford a million credits per slice on top of 500k for a decint suite of armor and another 500k for a top of the line, loot enhanced weapon or 3 (depending on whether you adk it)? The only players I know are the old timers and the ebayers. Even then, not all the old times. My main toon has just over a million credits to his name. He has alot of stuff which could be sold to get him into the hundred millions but I collect. I don't want to sell my collectibles just so I can get a freakin slice (if I wasn't a smuggler myself).
All this current loot layout will due is further seperate the player base into classes and put smugglers in the elite. It isn't good as a whole.
I will admit, I absolutely abhor the idea of looting what I need for a good slice but it does have potential as I saw Veela point out in another thread. The loot system could work but not if the good stuff is thrown on such things as the DWB and Avatar Station. It is a very bad idea to put the loot on those mobs.
That being said, I like the breakage system alot. It also has alot of potential. Alot more potential then I see with the loot system. All you can do with the loot system is change where the loot comes from. With the breakage system, you could have multiple types of "breaks." One could be something which doesn't make the gun useless but makes it do something not so good like put a low blind on the user. Another could be making it fire wildly so it agros everything within a radius (but doesn't do hardly any damage if any at all). Still another could be having it simply misfire so that single shot doesn't actually shoot (but the next one will). The devs could do soooooooooo much cool stuff with the breakage system but instead, they're pawning off this measley loot system and not even thinking the loot system through thoroughly.
As of now, I'm dissappointed but I reserve my judgement until I actually use the new system in it's "final" form.
I understand you, Ranaan.
Upper level slices will be rare and expensive. GreenMarine said that he would puta word out to the devs that the upper level drops would be in the easier areas of the DWB and other places.
Yes, you are right. These things will be kinda hard to get and worth a good penny, BUT a smuggler that connects themself to big money like this is surely to be skilled at skimmin off the top 
I recommend that you take a whole bunch of weapon and armor upgrade kits and uncrate them before the patch. These will randomly convert to the new slicing components, of which a small percentage will be upper level ones. This will give you a JUMP on things. Oh, and don't tell this to anyone else 
If this does go through as GM is saying, I'll be very thankful for it.
Raanan wrote:
Appreciate the tip
Yes, the big money and our association with it is good for us but (and this is where I fail as a smuggler, thinking of others more then I do myself) it isn't good for the game as a whole. I don't think I'm alone in not wanting to see any more elitism brought to swg (jedi are bad enough). Creating elitism through economy is just as bad as the devs creating elitism through profession. Instead of slicing being a riskless reward for the entire player base, it'll be a riskless reward only for the rich andthat puts a crinkle in my ideals of right and wrong.
And yes, slicing with the loot system has no risk. Looting holds the risk, not the slicing.
I gotta think about that for a while before I reply.Ok, I totally jive with what you're saying and here's what I'm thinking.
Balance of extremes. It's a very asian (which isn't important aside from the fact, I have a deep fascination with things asian) idea which I've thought about since I was a pre-teen. It's exemplified in the taoist yin-yang. It's a good theory but this is what my experience has taught me. Balance in extremes is a farce. There is balance and there is extremes. Balance is achieved by seeking balance not by seeking extremes.
This system the devs are pushing, the looting, it isn't balanced. It points to extremes, rich and poor. In fact, it helps accentuate those extremes instead of balancing the economy. I get why that fits your fancy though. I just don't believe that is a good way to achieve your goal of balance.
However, I'm always open to being wrong. One thing I've learned in my short lifespan is, while experience can teach us a great many things, it can also be completely misunderstood. Maybe there is balance in extremes. I don't know. I just know I have been unable to achieve balance in that way. Maybe both of us are right. One thing is certain though, my post doesn't hold a candle to yours
lithium incapped and db'd me 
Message Edited by Raanan on 06-25-2005 03:42 AM