Smuggler Archive
Thread: Nerf call for Last Ditch
BDragon
Fri May 13, 2005 6:42 am
#27
CapnKate wrote:
It seems that the Jedi response, as usual, is to dump all over our profession as a result. Go complain about BH gank squads or something and leave us alone. Relatively few people here are BHs, and most of us who aren't *need* specials like LD and FD and roots to survive, but apparently it's too much to ask that we actually have a class that's viable and not just a waste of SP. Thanks a lot, Jedi. Really. You've earned yet another hater. XP
Excuse me, but if you are too blind with hatred to read my post then fine, but dont start acusing me of untruths. When did i 'dump all over your profession'? When did i suggest that Last Ditch should be removed or nerfed in power? When i even mention roots? I never did. I already stated this issueis not smugglers but BH dabbling in 1 of your lines that is causing the reactions you see over on jedi forums and if this is going to be your reaction then you are only hurting yourself.
Jesus, somebody comes over and tries to tell you the reasons behind the complaints and even offers support for the actual smugglers who need this move to remain intact and all you can see if 'Jedi coming to nerf me!', if you cant move past that then Ditch WILL be screwed just like FD was. Please, get over this labeling crap and realise its wolves in sheeps clothing that have screwed your profession and now threaten to again.....
Savagefirebug
Fri May 13, 2005 6:42 am
#28
Take that baby Jedi.. everyone go! Mass smuggler posting! Show your support!
Iagree that this skill, as powerfull as it is, would be better suited as a master skill. thats the only thing being suggested as a fix on both this thread and on the Jedi thread that got this going. if you have an idea or just agree with the master thing, or are in the mood to flame right back at the Jedi (some of which are making idiotic statements about the ability to one shot kill form full health with LD and to spam it--- i'd really, really like to know how) go do so!
I have no clue how to do a clicky
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=891179&view=by_date_ascending&page=5
Savagefirebug
Fri May 13, 2005 7:02 am
#29
I must say, kudos to BDragon for being the onlyJedi (sorry if i missed anyone) that had the stones to post here!
side not-- I think CapnKate's acid remarks were for Jedi in general, not spesifically your post. I could be wrong of course but thats just the way it reads to me.
But *twing at devils advocate role* it seems that the Jedi side isnt the one generalizing. I've read the the nerf thread on the Jedi forums, they arentdeclaring warr onSmugglers nerf because some BH might pick it up. They are calling for the special itself to be changed and have even stated its because BH are ripping off our skills. Heck, even the Jedi suggested it just be moved to Master to fix it, no damage nerf, no accuracy nerf, both here AND on their own forum ^points at Bdragon's post^ WE are the ones blaming all Jedi, when in fact there are Jedi deffending it in the nerf forum.
gomi321
Fri May 13, 2005 7:02 am
#30
I took accuracy food and went against a jedi friend. He was filled up with food including anti-incap. I nailed him. He should have been incapped but wasn't and was able to heal himself and one saber throw later i was down. LD doesn't need to be nerfed. People just need to use tactics.
Fought against another buddy that's a jedi. What did he do when he noticed my helath was low? He threw his saber at me and ran around a corner! I couldn't get the shot off before he went around the corner but he got me.
Tactics Tactics Tactics.
Fought against another buddy that's a jedi. What did he do when he noticed my helath was low? He threw his saber at me and ran around a corner! I couldn't get the shot off before he went around the corner but he got me.
Tactics Tactics Tactics.
Votiva
Fri May 13, 2005 7:02 am
#31
BDragon wrote:
blah blah blah, I'm a jedi and should be drowned.
Yeah your right, it's not our fault at all. But we're the ones who keep getting crapped on because of you people. You don't see Commando's, any Melee prof. or crafters getting bent over and boned in a painfull way over you people now do ya? Nope, the cr@p always get's dumped off in smuggler land because of jedi and bounty hunters. I say no more....in the immortal words of Twisted Sister "We're not gonna take it, no we aint gonna take it."
The world, and this game, does not revolve around the pissant whining of a bunch of l33t crybaby Jedi. I want you all out of my "greatest Star Wars experience ever".
GanymedePharuu
Fri May 13, 2005 7:20 am
#32
/SCREAM!!!!!!!!!!!
why do WE always get pulled into this Jedi/BH grief-fest!?!?
don't nerf a damn thing from our skills! *wags finger*
why do WE always get pulled into this Jedi/BH grief-fest!?!?
don't nerf a damn thing from our skills! *wags finger*
PyscoJuggalo
Fri May 13, 2005 7:28 am
#33
Well now everyone knows how true my Guildname is.
Take Away Jedi Bounties, remove them from the GCW, and professions will never get nerfed again
Buncha antisocial "I spent 12,000 hours grinding my Jedi" people
Gaitan
Fri May 13, 2005 7:31 am
#34
BDragon wrote:
Mmmm, imnot sure why some of you smugglers are pointing the finger at jedi and saying this gives you a reason to hate them. Oh, we don't hate them for this. It's that we as players - it doesn't matter what profession - are getting tired of the fact thatat lot ofpeople that have a Jedi character
Never.
Stop.
Whining.
It's a non-stop complaint-fest demading the Devs do something to make Jedi = "I win!" at all things PvE and PvP.
Lets think about the problems regarding jedi (Don't invite people to get started on that one okay? Just some friendly advice) and smuggler abilities (Which long-time Smugglers never had until the CU, and so many are still patiently waiting for the promised Smuggler Upgrade. I haven't been a Smuggler long, but I can read.)properly for a minute:
Feign Death: This was a Smuggler ability that was being used by those who were strictly speaking NOT smugglers, imho once you become jedi and pull out that saber you are a jedi. So those dabbling in your profession and abusing a great move got it nerfed.
Last Ditch: Now this is causing issues when BH can hit jedi for damage reaching 6k if timed well. Not, nobody is complaining about a 'smuggler' using this ability, the hate of this move comes from when it is used in a bounty situation making the bountyhunter and not the smuggler the problem. (Quick Fix: Stay off theTerminals. The change has already been made so that Jedi won't lose XP when dying in PvE combat. Can't you all just rejoice in that?) I have last ditch with my main and its a great move, but very situational. It just so happens that player bounties or any 1 on 1 duel happen to be the very best situation for this move. So once again, somebody can come along and dabble in 1 line of your profession, gain a move that is extremely powerful and piss off an entire profession and who gets the blame? You guys do...... No one seems to be blaming smugglers, just demanding that Last Ditch get nerfed.
I would suggest you guys ask for an effectivness mod to be placed on Last Ditch so that it does not become as powerful as it is right now until master. I mean, that wont effect you will it? you guys are smugglers and will master your profession. It would go a long way to removing any complaint a jedi could have, because if they get dicthed for 6k the guy was actaully a master smuggler and earned that right. Nothing will really end the complaints, because you can be a MS/MBH and have the full effect of Last Ditch along with other roots and knock downs. The Jedi WhineMasters will continue to complain as long as any move exists that might challenge their template's supremacy.
This is further example that while dabbling is great for diversity, some moves should not be readily aviable to some professions because of the heat it can bring on the innocent profession the move resides in. And just for the record, im old skool and think jedi should be jedi only. If it was up to me no jedi would have ever had feign death because we wouldnt have any non-jedi skills anyway..... The CU has made diversity an integral part of the game. If Last Ditch gets nerfed *or* the effectiveness is increased only at Master Smuggler, then the Jedi whiners will move on to Root, etc.
It is my deepest hope that SOE will do with SWG what Blizzard did with StarCraft when people complained that Protoss Carriers were "overpowered". Blizzard actually upped the damage of the carriers, and said "There. Now they're overpowered." Once players realized that Blizzard wasn't going to negotiate with the whiners, the whiners were forced to learn what things existed in the game to counter the carriers. It was simple. Terran Science vessels fired an EMP that made Protoss sheilds go away. The moral of the story? The tools existed in the game to defeat the Protoss, but players were demanding the "easy" way out, having the Devs fix it instead of learning to use their brains to find a solution.
GanymedePharuu
Fri May 13, 2005 7:32 am
#35
PyscoJuggalo wrote:Well now everyone knows how true my Guildname is.Take Away Jedi Bounties, remove them from the GCW, and professions will never get nerfed againBuncha antisocial "I spent 12,000 hours grinding my Jedi" people
hehe nice PA name...
the only thing is, we're not the ones fighting the Jedi. it's the BHs who fight them, and they use our skills to gain the upper hand.
before it was the Jedi gaining the upper hand over BHs using Feign Death...
when will it end?!
JiganSterling
Fri May 13, 2005 7:36 am
#36
gomi321 wrote:
I took accuracy food and went against a jedi friend. He was filled up with food including anti-incap. I nailed him. He should have been incapped but wasn't and was able to heal himself and one saber throw later i was down. LD doesn't need to be nerfed. People just need to use tactics.
Fought against another buddy that's a jedi. What did he do when he noticed my helath was low? He threw his saber at me and ran around a corner! I couldn't get the shot off before he went around the corner but he got me.
Tactics Tactics Tactics.
Gomi, something of the same happened to me. Our jedi was practicing dueling multiple targets to prepare for the inevitable 3 BH hunting group. In the first duel he took out took out everyone but me...cause I was a good smuggler and took pot-shots and hid behind a house. Once it was just me and him I decided to come out with my flame thrower and root and shoot. Believe it or not...I didn't even think about LD. I had him down to 50% health while I was getting dangerously low. So I decided to give LD a go (it has never landed for me btw) and boom. down he goes. it wasn't a one-hit kill. I did have him down to 50% health even when he kept healing himself. The next time we fought (he is not a master defender) he knew how to handle me, and he took down all 3 of us with no problems.
So as gomi says...it is all about tactics. Some people refuse...absolutely refuse to use their brain. I don't think LD needs to be nerfed, though maybe the accuracy mods for it can be moved to other trees in smuggler with a bonus for master, that way if a dabbler gets LD then, it will not be very effective at all.
CapnKate
Fri May 13, 2005 7:43 am
#37
Savagefirebug wrote:I must say, kudos to BDragon for being the only Jedi (sorry if i missed anyone) that had the stones to post here!side not-- I think CapnKate's acid remarks were for Jedi in general, not spesifically your post. I could be wrong of course but thats just the way it reads to me.But *twing at devils advocate role* it seems that the Jedi side isnt the one generalizing. I've read the the nerf thread on the Jedi forums, they arent declaring warr on Smugglers nerf because some BH might pick it up. They are calling for the special itself to be changed and have even stated its because BH are ripping off our skills. Heck, even the Jedi suggested it just be moved to Master to fix it, no damage nerf, no accuracy nerf, both here AND on their own forum ^points at Bdragon's post^ WE are the ones blaming all Jedi, when in fact there are Jedi deffending it in the nerf forum.
Yes, it was generalized. And acidic. In my opinion, deservedly so.
It may very well be that there's a certain amount of "move it to master". So? What do you think the BHs are going to do? They'll take master so they have a chance against defenders. Then what're the jedi going to do?
There also simple comes a point where too much of the profession's usefulness is in the master's box. People have to level up the tree, you know. newbies can't respec to Master.
We're not approaching that yet, but what's next? I already get lots of tells from upset Jedi kids that yell at me because I'm a Smuggler and some BH rooted them with a Smuggler special while they tried to run. We going to be having this dicussion about our last remaining really useful special next week?
What it really comes down to, is that frankly, Bh/Jedi interaction is a mess. Where my ire comes in, is that for some reason, BH/Jedi being a mess means it's suddenly important to "fix" portions of SMUGGLER instead, generally with little regard for what it does to us. I read the thread, too. Much of it seems to be Jedi making statements of "fact" about LD that are simply not the case, due to unfamiliarity with it.
And we can say sure, add some mods to it so that it fails less at master and more in the novice... what, Like FD? So at master, I can fail 50% of the time like I do with Feign? I'm already getting at least a 60% failure rate on LD as it is, where either it's not in time, or it's a little early, or it flat-out misses. Sure, I can eat a bunch of food and hit, but they can eat a bunch of food and buffs and survive it, so I'm not buying that argument.
One final thought, here:
"Feign Death: This was a Smuggler ability that was being used by those who were strictly speaking NOT smugglers, imho once you become jedi and pull out that saber you are a jedi. So those dabbling in your profession and abusing a great move got it nerfed."
And this is why we're upset. Because what, exactly, makes you think we have ANY reason to believe that this isn't the SAME. DAMN. THING.
PyscoJuggalo
Fri May 13, 2005 7:46 am
#38
GanymedePharuu wrote:
hehe nice PA name...
the only thing is, we're not the ones fighting the Jedi. it's the BHs who fight them, and they use our skills to gain the upper hand.
before it was the Jedi gaining the upper hand over BHs using Feign Death...
when will it end?!
The truth as you know and I know it is, is this:
Last Ditch is a shot with limited effectiveness, after you use it your dead. Hell I still have not been able to use this shot effectively once.
It's really stupid that Jedi are going to get something nerfed that has a huge draw back. I'm not gonna lie, I have the shot because I'm a Commando and want to mix it with my AOE in Group PVP. But really there is a chance I will use it too early,a chance I will use it too late (incapping myself), and a chance I wont be able to use it at all (getting wacked before I can pull it out).
It's not like KD, root, or snare where you can rely on the shot.