Smuggler Archive

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MsNiL wrote:

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WillburWright wrote: Hurrah! You confuse me, MsNiL.... very greatly. One day you are making a list of all the professions' problems, the next you are blind. We cannot smuggle? What is there not to see. Don't give me any "skills" crap. YOu're smarter that that. Stop playing with words and bug off!

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Yes, I have tried to help the crippled professions, but I am tired of the hypocrisy and the hostility.

I went over here last week and had to take ALOT of crap when I wanted to offer your appearently popular profession to get back to a useful state.

Why did I get alot of crap... becouse of my support? No, becouse people read my 'sig' that one of my characters was a "Jedi".

There's now solid evidence that more than half of the Jedi profession is so redundant that they are the rarest skillsets mastered in the entire game... still there's ignorant fools jumping on us. It's obvious that there's many who couldnt handle the truth: 60% of the Jedi is the most shafted/gimped/crippled/nerfed in the entire game. The whole "Jedi got all the attention" argument just got flushed deep, and I can understand the frustration, but now you should know that we need help too. We where never upgraded to be compatible in the new system and we suffer every day from it. Fact is, I dont give a crap about content as long as I am made compatible with the game.

Smuggler's hides behind Master Force Defender's popularity to be able to "low blow" Force Enhancers/Healers/Wielders over and over and over again. By stomping on the weakest in the game you are nowhere better than "please dont fix anything else" fotm Jedi. This makes you appear ignorant and Selfish!

Ask for content, fine. But 2 out of 3 posts on the smuggler forum is about hating Jedi rather than talking about smuggling. Suggestion: quit asking for others to remain unfixed, or you remove all sympathy from friendly but crippled players, including Jedi.

Message Edited by MsNiL on 08-20-2005 07:57 PM

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umm just because they are low on the list doesnt make it solid proof does it? I mean if jedi are supposed to be rare, less than 1 in 1000 then shouldnt they be at the bottom of the list?

That Smugglers are the only one who do not have access to what's expected of their name is unfortunally not true. I became aware of this back when I started to grind Ranger back ages ago. I would actually be thrilled if Ranger/Commando fit their description perfectly.

Ranger
"A Ranger is a person charged with protecting and preserving parkland, forests, wilderness areas other natural resources.

Rangers perform a number of important functions in the protection of wildlands. Especially in isolated areas many miles from inhabited regions, park rangers may be the only "official" presence, if not the only person around. Because they are the only persons around, rangers must be very conscious of safety issues and may respond very differently from other emergency responders who have help near at hand."

Ranger in SWG: Someone who harvest animals.

Commando
"Commandos are generally seen as "elite" soldiers; they tend to meet relatively high physical and intellectual requirements, are formed into combat units (from squad to brigade strength), and often operate in conjunction with more traditional military formations.

Tactics common to the modern commando are the product of experience gained over centuries, but which were brought to the fore and developed in guerilla warfare during the 20th century. Commandos are normally trained for assault by land, sea or air and most are parachute qualified. Training also includes unarmed combat, infiltration, counterterrorism, patrol, reconnaissance, jungle, desert, arctic, and mountain terrains with an emphasis on both teamwork and self reliance. Individuals specialise in various aspects such as explosives and communications. Commando hallmarks are speed, mobility and stealth. Many operations are conducted at night and Commandos are not intended to remain continuously in the line for long periods."

Commando in SWG: Someone who have Rocket Launcher, Grenadesand Acid Steam Launcher.

Teras Kasi
"Both a martial art and an Order. The Teräs Käsi were formed from the remnant civilians of a long-ago battle which devastated their home world of Palawa, a war which involved the awesome powers of the Jedi Council. The few survivors of Palawa migrated to a nearby world called Bunduki, where they decided to master mind over body so they may keep the Jedi use of power in check. The Teräs Käsi are thought to be sensitive to changes in the Force, and Teräs Käsi Masters are feared by the Jedi. But Teräs Käsi are not generally Force users as Jedi are: Teräs Käsi draw internal, personal power, while Jedi draw from everything around them."

Teras Kasi in SWG: Makes sure the swordmen dont need to pay for their armor.

Bounty Hunter
"A bounty hunter is an individual who seeks out fugitives for a monetary reward. It is legal in the United States thanks to the 1872 U.S. Supreme Court case (Taylor v. Taintor) which established that the person into whose custody a person accused of a crime is remanded as part of the accused's bail has sweeping rights to recover that person. In the United States bounty hunters have nearly limitless authority in their duties with regard to their targets. Unlike a police officer, a bounty hunter can enter private property without a warrant. Normally bounty hunters do not undergo any formal training, and are generally unlicensed, only requiring sanction from a bail bondsman to operate."

Bounty Hunter in SWG: A Jedi Assassin

I think the only point I'll make at this time is that you're coming on a different plane than us, MsNiL.

You're looking at and evaluating Smuggler as an effective combat template.

'True' Smugglers, as opposed to the template-chasing hordes, never ever saw Smuggler as a combat profession. We see Smuggler as a hybrid class, who's primary purpose is the transporting of illegal and contraband materials and personnel through enforced blockades. All our combat skills are towork towardsthat functionality.

So you coming here to tell us we're fine in will trigger animosity because you're evaluating us as something we're not. That same misjudgement happens to you, when you're judged as a Jedi rather than a Healer or whatever you are. You above all should understand where we're coming from, and realise that criticising us for having a working professionwill only ever result in clashes, because in our minds, smugglign *is* the profession

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MsNiL wrote:

the Jedi is the most shafted/gimped/crippled/nerfed in the entire game.

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MsNiL wrote:

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DarthHommie wrote:
/Sigh

How long has it been since you were a "Normie"?

I have two alts and play beside my guild who uses most kinds of various templates. When I want to do pvp or heavy pve I pick Seani (my MDoc/MMed/MCM).

Hmm and lets see, how Gimped do you really think you are? You think you have it worse than us "Normies"?

I am on the same level as some of them.

Alright then, fine. Heres what you do. Start a new Character, and playsome of the professions like Commando,or Ranger.I can honestly say they have it worse than us.Not saying we're not bad.Then Play for two weeks with thoseprofessions. Come back here, and thenTell us if you still think you are so "Gimped".

Ranger is a peculiar specimen. They barely have a single combat mod, and yet they are the people who are SUPPOSED to be able to take out Giant Krayt Dragons. And they are not the only one who can take Gorax Bone Shards, Krayt Tissue and Krayt Scales from big game hunts. They have the highest skillpoint cost in the game. The only reason there are more of them compared to Master Force Enhancers/Healers/Wielders is that they have a use, a purpose in the economy of this game. For professions such as Armorsmith, Chef and Bio-Engineer there NEED to be Rangers in the game.

Thoose that are have all my respect for sure.

Commando is also an interesting profession. They are supposed to have Offense (5), which cannot be seen at all. If you ask me, being built on Novice Brawler is all wrong. I would have built them on 4000 Scout. Their damage output is completely broken, although at least they have Defense and Armor. They also have one use, converting damage to area. Unlike Ranger however, there's no NEED to be Commando in the game.

They have all my respect.

Both have more use in this game than a Master Force Healer though. Up to Publish 19 I could at least force myself to keep people healed, and I could at least heal people's battlefatigue. Now I cant do either and people go down like flies around me. Thanks to the "hate" system, I get alot of attention quickly if I try to heal people, and I oftenend up as a tank after which I go down quickly,with 0 defense and 2000 armor(I told you before, I used to have a Smuggler/Pistoleer along who tanked for me).
Also, despite lack of speed and accuracy, my FWG5 do more damage on targets than my lightsaber. Finally everything in 0444 Healer is a waste of skillpoints, it's all broken or indirectly counter other broken features.

It was once I realised I couldnt survive Kashyyyk on my own, that I dumped the game. I am still waiting to have something I can use again.

You are not worse than us, you have no idea what it is like. You are like an outsider who comes in and tells us everything we know is true is wrong, And we should convert to the ways ofworshiping jedi.

You are not worse than us, you have no idea what it is like. You are like an outsider who comes in and tells us everything we know is true is wrong, And we should convert to the ways ofworshiping you.

In many ways I feel like "Scarface"'s little sister. Being judged for the actions of "big brother", things that I have nothing to do with at all.

And You wonder why we hate jedi. You guys come in here everytime and start something. We send you back. Not to mention your Community is the one which attracts all the Whining "1337" kids. Anyway, You whine, You get, and it happens ten times faster than if it was us. Notice the new expansion also? Jedi-centric, with a new FRS likely. All i can say is that I hope when FRS comes around, they can fix the "Normies"

I dont get anything at all. Master Force Healer have been untouched since August 2004, except for the first nerf in publish 15 and Coup De Grace in publish 19. Smugglers got attention in almost every publish since the CU.

The expansion is a completewaste on this game. And I can agree there. I dont want the FRS back at all. It will more than likely have no support for Healers or Light Jedi at all, like always.

As a Light Jedi I question why only powerhungry Dark Jedi like players are supported.

Really, Don't complain. Take what you've got. Its 300% better than thewhat we have. all we do its cling tothe Hope, that sometime, our day will come, and we will getwhat all our professions need.

Heh. Like I said, I used to have a Pistoleer/Smuggler to tank for me. I do not even have any hope. The devs have never officially or inofficially said a word about making the Jedi compatible with the game, even less Force Healers.

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Alright, You do have some Valid points. Healer is Screwed. But no more so that the rest of us. I Don't know much about Jedi Skill trees, never having seen them. I am sorry, I took youforsome of the jedi Who I have seencome aroundand Complain that they cannotkill everything in 5 hits with their Ub3r l33t Saber. Anyway,let me Rephrase a bit. Most Jedi Are not Screwed.It seems like Most jedi either pick up on MLSand whatever else the FOTM is. They have no problem beating the crap out of anybody.And to your Comment about not being able to heal Battle fatigue, youforget about the Entertainers. Now all they can do is Buff. Healers can at least still heal, and i believe they can heal wounds also, correct me if I'm wrong. Which to me, seems to put them on the Level of Doctors, correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, I suppose I was a bit rash, but It comes from the Despirate times now in SWG. And while Smugglers have may have gotten some things in publishes for a while, I have to say, Most of them are bugged/borked beyond belief, and Attention Is not always a good thing.

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MsNiL wrote:

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WillburWright wrote: Hurrah! You confuse me, MsNiL.... very greatly. One day you are making a list of all the professions' problems, the next you are blind. We cannot smuggle? What is there not to see. Don't give me any "skills" crap. YOu're smarter that that. Stop playing with words and bug off!

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Yes, I have tried to help the crippled professions, but I am tired of the hypocrisy and the hostility.

I went over here last week and had to take ALOT of crapwhen I wanted to offer your appearently popular profession to get back to a useful state.

Why did I get alot of crap... becouse of my support? No, becouse people read my 'sig' that one of my characters was a "Jedi".

There's now solid evidence that more than half of the Jedi profession is so redundant that they are the rarest skillsets mastered in the entire game... still there's ignorant fools jumping on us. It's obvious that there's many who couldnt handle the truth: 60% of the Jedi is the most shafted/gimped/crippled/nerfed in the entire game. The whole "Jedi got all the attention" argument just got flushed deep, and I can understand the frustration, but now you should know that we need help too. We where never upgraded to be compatible in the new system and we suffer every day from it. Fact is, I dont give a crap about content as long as I am made compatible with the game.

Smuggler's hides behindMaster Force Defender's popularity to be able to "low blow" Force Enhancers/Healers/Wielders over and over and over again. By stomping on the weakest in the game you are nowhere better than "please dont fix anything else" fotm Jedi. This makes you appear ignorant and Selfish!

Ask for content, fine. But 2 out of 3 posts on the smuggler forum is about hating Jedi rather than talking about smuggling. Suggestion: quit asking for others to remain unfixed, or you remove all sympathy from friendly but crippled players, including Jedi.

Message Edited by MsNiL on 08-20-2005 07:57 PM

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these are fiddled facts Nilly. There are no tables done without the 2nd jedi character slot. At least a M healer can actually heal, A smuggler cannot smuggle. You say "half of the Jedi profession is so redundant", I say all the jedi profession should be redundant as they should not exist in this timeline.

I'm sorry you got flamed for been a jedi but you have to understand us "normies" are sick to death of jedi and there continual attention. This "expansion" just confirms the way the game is heading.

If you think the divide between jedi and normies is great now, wait till all thats left ingame are jedi and ther alts. There will be no smugglers, there will be no squad leaders, there will be no crafters, there will be no rangers and I think even the most militant of jedi lover will admit thats not a Star Wars game they want to play.

you just realised that? lol

You just don't get it do you?

And you won't.

Just go away.

Rangers can Range
Teras Kasi can do martial arts.
Bounty Hunters can hunt bounties.

SMUGGLERS. CAN. NOT. SMUGGLE.

So quit coming in here trying to 'help' us. We don't want your help. We don't want you here typing your selfabsorbed posts and annoying the living fire out of us. You aren't a smuggler. You have no idea what its like to be a smuggler. Go post on the ranger board or the commando board if they'll have you. You are NOT the glowbat weilding savior of all the other professions. You're just some bothersome twit with an over inflated sense of your own importance.

Just go away.

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MsNiL wrote:
There's now solid evidence that more than half of the Jedi profession is so redundant that they are the rarest skillsets mastered in the entire game... still there's ignorant fools jumping on us.

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You actually think that's a true statement of how many Jedi characters are in the game?
You can't be serious.
Some are the 'noble' professions like healers and crafters but these are by far the minority.
The vast majority go for Jedi to be the alpha class and have their cool glowy sword.

I heard about the new tutorial, and made a new character just to see it.
Gee, I wonder why all the new players want to be Jedi? Maybe it's the fact that there's now a saber fight at the end, then doing the intro quest in Eisley, they are told 'you are special, we've been watching you for a long time now'.
Lets not leave out the fact that you can be 95% done with Force Sensitive 'glowy' in about an hour, getting the content badges with missions in Eisley, doing a bit of traveling for waypoints, leaving only any profession mastery, which can be ground out in a day or two if you chose the right profession.

Sure, most of the actual Jedi skills are at the bottom, most don't master those trees.
Let's look at the top 5.
Hmm, looks like the grind professions.
Bounty Hunter has 5 types of xp for conversion, the rest combine in various ways for 3 or 4 types of xp.
Some are BH just to grief Jedi, sure, but there's a lot of $ to be made just doing npc missions.
M. Smugglers can slice the terms for extra $ and xp.
Slicing loot drops either for sale or using themselves and making more $ by slicing if they've taken M. Smuggler too.

The original list is at least a bit more telling as to how much the professions are used, but not much.
Without info about when it was collected, how they are measured, and what the actual percentages are, it doesn't mean much.
Presumably, the data was collected recently, maybe within the last 2 weeks, and every character that has at least the novice box is counted for that profession.
If they really wanted us to know what the most 'popular' professions are, they would list the actual number of characters that have each skill box. The list would be quite long, but would actually tell the truth about profession popularity.
Marketing is why the lists have been shown to us the way they have. They show a false diversity.
Some professions would stay near their current position, but it would be quite a different list if they showed the true popularity of each skill box.

By not fixing or adding to regular professions, they drive people away from them.
When I left about 4 months ago, of the number of buildings around Coronet, about 50% had vendors, now its 10% or less (Ahazi and Eclipse).
Some have moved to Dant. as that's where most of the grinding happens, but even Dant has a good bit fewer vendors than it used to.

Message Edited by Stawei_Idow on 08-21-2005 05:30 PM

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YseliaAmmo wrote:

Ok there are a couple things I have to say about this. First off no one should be going around blaming Jedi for them getting first pick on profession fixing. I think its ridiculous to blame Jedi for all the problems because well even if they ask for something the final desicion makers are the Devs NOT the Jedi. I feel comfortable saying this because I have been playing long enough to be a Jedi 2 times over ive played since launch and just find it fun to mess around with professions. I dont see Ranger as broken either I mean I think they should be getting some more combat abilities and defense but they still are some rich bastards in most cases I can say that because I was a Ranger for a while and made alot of credits. The truth is we dont need to be complaining about Jedi or Jedi complaning about norms we should just team up and make Galaxy based desicions. Or instead of complaining Jedi is the only thing to do ask for more Prestige classes, to me that would bring so much more life into this game. For example lets say your a Bounty Hunter Carbineer(Or any ranged prof) you should be able to become an Elite Hunter(or something like that) giving you skills that will help in hunting of bountys or you can be come a darkside equivelant like an Assasin that way people would feel they had more of an impact on there side. I know I personaly would like being an Imperial Commando or something Imperial based and im sure a rebel feels the same way. If we give Prestige classes and more Factions we can pretty much give this game a whole new face since its not just cut and dry, Rebel and Imperial. Those are jsut some of my thoughts and if I get flamed for not calling a Jedi the devil so be it but ive been playing this game long enough to know its stupid to complain agianst eachother when the only real thing we cna do is complain with eachother

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I can halfway agree with this, but I can certainly blame those jedi that did take an active part in getting professions nerfed. Even some jedi joke about jedi post CU using this analogy

Jedi = Scissors.

Jedi : "We dont mind paper... but rock.. well rock needs to be nerfed"


and this is in the jedi forums they make fun of this. They scream for nerfs so much that at one time the Jedi were even screaming for a nerf within their classes, ie nerf the defenders. Thats how bad it is.

At this point I dont even want them 'balanced' I want them to go away. I am willing to do it in a way that doesnt even affect them by requesting a non-jedi server so that I can be the one to move. One thing that everyone pretends not to see in that little chart is that defender was almost in the middle and if you lumped jedi all into one entry they would be above the middle, this is important because every Jedi account has TWO characters which means that jedi stats are only counting for HALF of their real placement because their alts are pulling their placement down. I think everyone capable of math skills can see that jedi as single entry, and possibly defenders alone, are the single highest populated class in the game. BH is probably a close second and not surprisingly a lot of jedi alts have MBHs. I resent a jedi-centric game just as much as I would resent CM's if they got this level of attention and everything was CM this and CM that. An MMORPG is supposed to be a melting pot of diversity, diverse doesnt mean this guy is a MEnhancer and this guy is a MDefender and this guy is a MHealer. There are 33 other ground professions and 3 space professions. I would like to see the population reflect that and not just BH and jedi everywhere I look, (and I dont mean seeing the occasional token other profession from time to time).