Smuggler Archive
Thread: I think they want us all to be Jedis
Message Edited by MsNiL on 08-20-2005 04:02 PM
MsNiL wrote:You guys dont know what you have.
We know exactly what we have. We also know what we were promised for TWO YEARS. Smuggling.
Now piss off, jedi.
RichardBryant wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
You guys dont know what you have.
We know exactly what we have. We also know what we were promised for TWO YEARS. Smuggling.
Now piss off, jedi.
Hurrah!
You confuse me, MsNiL.... very greatly. One day you are making a list of all the professions' problems, the next you are blind. We cannot smuggle? What is there not to see. Don't give me any "skills" crap. YOu're smarter that that.
Stop playing with words and bug off!
WillburWright wrote: Hurrah! You confuse me, MsNiL.... very greatly. One day you are making a list of all the professions' problems, the next you are blind. We cannot smuggle? What is there not to see. Don't give me any "skills" crap. YOu're smarter that that. Stop playing with words and bug off!
Message Edited by MsNiL on 08-20-2005 07:57 PM
/ponder
MsNiL wrote:
WillburWright wrote: Hurrah! You confuse me, MsNiL.... very greatly. One day you are making a list of all the professions' problems, the next you are blind. We cannot smuggle? What is there not to see. Don't give me any "skills" crap. YOu're smarter that that. Stop playing with words and bug off!
Yes, I have tried to help the crippled professions, but I am tired of the hypocrisy and the hostility.
I went over here last week and had to take ALOT of crap for being a "Jedi" when I wanted to offer your appearently popular profession to get back to a useful state. This is SOE. Um, yeah. I believe those stats are crap. I have not seen many smugglers. I dont care if they dont have their tag up. I can tell.
There's now solid evidence that more than half of the Jedi profession is so redundant that they are the rarest skillsets mastered in the entire game... The power in Jedi is their flexibility. They can pick up good offense, great defense, healing.... still there's ignorant fools jumping on us. It's obvious that there's many who couldnt handle the truth: 60% of the Jedi is the most shafted/gimped/crippled/nerfed in the entire game. Damn! Smugglers, Squad Leaders, Rangers, Commandos, Merchants, Droid Engineers, the list goes on!The whole "Jedi got all the attention" argument just got flushed deep, Jedi were created before existing professions were fixed. They've been here longer, thus they should get the priority. and I can understand the frustration, but now you should know that we need help too. I understand that, but the normal professions should have the priority. We where never upgraded to be compatible in the new system and we suffer every day from it. Fact is, I dont give a crap about content as long as I am made compatible with the game.
Smuggler's hides behindMaster Force Defender's popularity to be able to "low blow" Low blow isn't that useful anymore. Yeah, it's nice, but a shadow of it's pre-CU usefulness. Force Enhancers/Healers/Wielders over and over and over again. By stomping on the weakest in the game you are nowhere better than "please dont fix anything else" fotm Jedi. "Weakest" Bullsh/t.
Quit asking for others to remain unfixed, or you remove all sympathy from other crippled players, including Jedi. We're in this together. Go ask rthe rangers, commandos. We are the poster boys of the neglected. Squad Leaders, Rangers, Commandos, Merchants, Droid Engineers, the list goes on!
WillburWright wrote:
MsNiL wrote:
WillburWright wrote: Hurrah! You confuse me, MsNiL.... very greatly. One day you are making a list of all the professions' problems, the next you are blind. We cannot smuggle? What is there not to see. Don't give me any "skills" crap. YOu're smarter that that. Stop playing with words and bug off!
This is SOE. Um, yeah. I believe those stats are crap. I have not seen many smugglers. I dont care if they dont have their tag up. I can tell.
Last time I needed a smuggler I found 5 in a row. In our guilds past Master Smuggler comes second to Master Teras Kasi in popularity.
There's still alot of demand for you guys since you have access to some of the most noteworthy stuff in the game.
The power in Jedi is their flexibility. They can pick up good offense, great defense, healing....
Not true. Jedi is the only profession that must take specific boxes for basic needs, which reduces their flexibility. Thats why 9 our of 10 Jedi is master defender, reducing diversity.
still there's ignorant fools jumping on us. It's obvious that there's many who couldnt handle the truth: 60% of the Jedi is the most shafted/gimped/crippled/nerfed in the entire game. Damn! Smugglers, Squad Leaders, Rangers, Commandos, Merchants, Droid Engineers, the list goes on!
Each one more common than Master Force Enhancer/Healer/Wielder. I know 3 Master Force Healers on corbantis. Tracking down the other professions is fairly easy. Check the list again.When evidence up your nose is difficult to throw away.
Jedi were created before existing professions were fixed. They've been here longer, thus they should get the priority.
They cancelled Starwars Galaxies in the beginning of 2004. To make people stay they dumped a 8 month mammoth grind in the game so people quit after that instead of after 2 months. Not much effort required to keep the mission terminals working. Regardless how broken the game is, regardless in what state each profession is (including Jedi themselves mind you), you can always be sure of one thing: The Aurilia village always work, and is always there. That's how SoE makes money for EverQuest 2 today.
and I can understand the frustration, but now you should know that we need help too. I understand that, but the normal professions should have the priority.
Hiring people to adress profession per profession should be priority. Before purchasing Matrix Online, before adding multiplayer vehicles, before nerfing grinding for everyone, before balance tweaks on what's already broken.
Check this out:
Fencer
Primary Role: Close Range DoT Specialist (Bleeds)
Secondary Role: Close Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Offense: Strong (4)
Defense: Weak (2)
Crowd Control: Moderate (3)
Do you agree that their DoT's are nasty?
Is their ROLE fulfilled?
Teras Kasi Artist
Primary Role: Melee Tanking Specialist (Avoidance)
Secondary Role: Close Range Damage Dealer
Offense: Moderate (3)
Defense: Very Strong (5)
Crowd Control: Minimal (1)
Do you agree that Teras Kasi is your first pick if you want to tank, and that they do decent damage?
Is their ROLE fulfilled?
Commando
Primary Role: Heavy Weapon Specialist
Secondary Role: Medium Range Damage Specialist
Offense: Very Strong (5)
Defense: Moderate (3)
Crowd Control: Minimal (1)
"Commandos sacrifice a significant amount of utility and some defensive ability for their potent damage dealing capability. Adding additional ranged profession skills to a Commando creates a very potent damage specialist."
Do you agree that Commando really is "VERY STRONG" regarding damage?
also... do you agree that Commando's role as a military specialist is shown? Are they the most suited for military missions? Do they even have any?
Is their ROLE fulfilled?
Squad Leader
Primary Role: Group Enhancement Specialist
Secondary Role: Medium Range Combatant
Offense: Moderate (3)
Defense: Moderate (3)
Crowd Control: Moderate (3)
"A Squad Leader's power shows through the bonuses they are able to bring to their group members. Squad Leaders have many various abilities to improve the coordination and effectiveness of their group. Even outside of a group the Squad Leader is a decent combatant, but their offensive and defensive capabilities are only average with no special abilities setting them aside."
Do you agree that Squad Leaders really are the "Group Enhancement Specialist" they are said to be?
Is their ROLE fulfilled?
Rifleman
Primary Role: Long Range Damage Specialist
Secondary Role: Long Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Offense: Very Strong (5)
Defense: Minimal (1)
Crowd Control: Moderate (3)
Do you agree that Riflemen have a decent amount of crowd-control abilities?
Is their ROLE fulfilled?
Force Enhancers/Healers/Wielders over and over and over again. By stomping on the weakest in the game you are nowhere better than "please dont fix anything else" fotm Jedi. "Weakest" Bullsh/t.
I had a smuggler/pistoleer tanking for me for awhile. I kept him healed, but mostly I had to run.
Quit asking for others to remain unfixed, or you remove all sympathy from other crippled players, including Jedi. We're in this together. Go ask rthe rangers, commandos. We are the poster boys of the neglected. Squad Leaders, Rangers, Commandos, Merchants, Droid Engineers, the list goes on!
The only thing I say: The Grass is not Greener on the other side. Thoose professions arent fixed becouse Jedi got all attention. Thoose professions arent fixed becouse EverQuest 2 got all attention. And yes, in that we are in this together.
Thing is, I admire Smuggler's for their awesome community. You manage to keep it together most of the time, even if they lie to you over and over and over again. In many ways I am jealous of you for that. Not becouse they lie to you, but becouse you guys support eachother like a whole great family.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 08-20-2005 08:15 PM
MsNiL wrote:
WillburWright wrote: Hurrah! You confuse me, MsNiL.... very greatly. One day you are making a list of all the professions' problems, the next you are blind. We cannot smuggle? What is there not to see. Don't give me any "skills" crap. YOu're smarter that that. Stop playing with words and bug off!
Yes, I have tried to help the crippled professions, but I am tired of the hypocrisy and the hostility.
I went over here last week and had to take ALOT of crapwhen I wanted to offer your appearently popular profession to get back to a useful state.
Why did I get alot of crap... becouse of my support? No, becouse people read my 'sig' that one of my characters was a "Jedi".
There's now solid evidence that more than half of the Jedi profession is so redundant that they are the rarest skillsets mastered in the entire game... still there's ignorant fools jumping on us. It's obvious that there's many who couldnt handle the truth: 60% of the Jedi is the most shafted/gimped/crippled/nerfed in the entire game. The whole "Jedi got all the attention" argument just got flushed deep, and I can understand the frustration, but now you should know that we need help too. We where never upgraded to be compatible in the new system and we suffer every day from it. Fact is, I dont give a crap about content as long as I am made compatible with the game.
Smuggler's hides behindMaster Force Defender's popularity to be able to "low blow" Force Enhancers/Healers/Wielders over and over and over again. By stomping on the weakest in the game you are nowhere better than "please dont fix anything else" fotm Jedi. This makes you appear ignorant and Selfish!
Ask for content, fine. But 2 out of 3 posts on the smuggler forum is about hating Jedi rather than talking about smuggling. Suggestion: quit asking for others to remain unfixed, or you remove all sympathy from friendly but crippled players, including Jedi.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 08-20-2005 07:57 PM
/Sigh
How long has it been since you were a "Normie"?
Hmm and lets see, how Gimped do you really think you are? You think you have it worse than us "Normies"?
Alright then, fine. Heres what you do. Start a new Character, and playsome of the professions like Commando,or Ranger.I can honestly say they have it worse than us.Not saying we're not bad.Then Play for two weeks with thoseprofessions. Come back here, and thenTell us if you still think you are so "Gimped".
You are not worse than us, you have no idea what it is like. You are like an outsider who comes in and tells us everything we know is true is wrong, And we should convert to the ways ofworshiping jedi.
And You wonder why we hate jedi. You guys come in here everytime and start something. We send you back. Not to mention your Community is the one which attracts all the Whining "1337" kids. Anyway, You whine, You get, and it happens ten times faster than if it was us. Notice the new expansion also? Jedi-centric, with a new FRS likely. All i can say is that I hope when FRS comes around, they can fix the "Normies"
Really, Don't complain. Take what you've got. Its 300% better than thewhat we have. all we do its cling tothe Hope, that sometime, our day will come, and we will getwhat all our professions need.
Message Edited by DarthHommie on 08-20-2005 11:30 AM
cpz wrote:
I think the only point I'll make at this time is that you're coming on a different plane than us, MsNiL.
You're looking at and evaluating Smuggler as an effective combat template.
'True' Smugglers, as opposed to the template-chasing hordes, never ever saw Smuggler as a combat profession. We see Smuggler as a hybrid class, who's primary purpose is the transporting of illegal and contraband materials and personnel through enforced blockades. All our combat skills are towork towardsthat functionality.
So you coming here to tell us we're fine in will trigger animosity because you're evaluating us as something we're not. That same misjudgement happens to you, when you're judged as a Jedi rather than a Healer or whatever you are. You above all should understand where we're coming from, and realise that criticising us for having a working professionwill only ever result in clashes, because in our minds, smugglign *is* the profession
Also... if I am not mistaken, Raph Koster wrote in his "How to Manage a Large-Scale Online Gaming Community" that a nice tactic to misdirect people's energy is to play them out against eachother. And I am guessing that's whats going on here. The devs want in-fighting since it covers up their responsibilities, making people believe the "other" gets more attention, when in fact neither gets attention.
DarthHommie wrote:
Alright, You do have some Valid points. Healer is Screwed. But no more so that the rest of us. I Don't know much about Jedi Skill trees, never having seen them. I am sorry, I took youforsome of the jedi Who I have seencome aroundand Complain that they cannotkill everything in 5 hits with their Ub3r l33t Saber. Anyway,let me Rephrase a bit. Most Jedi Are not Screwed.It seems like Most jedi either pick up on MLSand whatever else the FOTM is. They have no problem beating the crap out of anybody.And to your Comment about not being able to heal Battle fatigue, youforget about the Entertainers. Now all they can do is Buff. Healers can at least still heal, and i believe they can heal wounds also, correct me if I'm wrong. Which to me, seems to put them on the Level of Doctors, correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, I suppose I was a bit rash, but It comes from the Despirate times now in SWG. And while Smugglers have may have gotten some things in publishes for a while, I have to say, Most of them are bugged/borked beyond belief, and Attention Is not always a good thing.
It's ok.
Let me give you the image and see if you recognize it.
I am a Roleplayer. I have a character that I created like I wanted to have fun with. I do notreally seek power, so my eyes arent focused on the more damagedealing professions in the game.My idea of fun is to adventure and play that character. I am an old Star Wars fan, so I go more about the fictional movie background to my profession rather what skills they give in-game.
But after awhile I realise that this game do not focus on making non-combat fun. Playing my profession as I envisioned it was not supported since this game seems to only be about killing things in combat. And in combat, playing a role that is not 100% about killing stuffis mostly unsupported/unneeded.
To mess with things even more,my profession have some notorious skills that people like to dabble in, and being master makes you nowhere better in thoose skills. So I have powerhungry fotm's dabbling in my template. Other people see how thoose skills are overpowering their templates and I am blamed for it.
At this time I have at this time already accepted that my non-combat role is unsupported and nowhere in sight, but now thoose fotm dabblers cause the last things that actually work in my template to get nerfed, so I cant even use that anymore. And people tell me "what are you whining for, doing damage is not your role". Ironically, doing damage is not what I asked for in the first place, was it?In their heads is this game only about doing damage (which unfortunate is true due to SoE's limited design).
Do you recognize the experience?
I picked Master Force Healer since I wanted to stand behind people, healing and assisting. Unfortunate upkeeping that role was difficult before publish 19 and impossible afterwards. (It would take awhile to explain the technical details here).
I believe people just forget that there's actually people left in this world who wants to do something else than pwning people in pvp. Some of thoose forgetful people are SoE.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 08-20-2005 11:09 PM
MsNiL wrote:
cpz wrote:
I think the only point I'll make at this time is that you're coming on a different plane than us, MsNiL.
You're looking at and evaluating Smuggler as an effective combat template.
'True' Smugglers, as opposed to the template-chasing hordes, never ever saw Smuggler as a combat profession. We see Smuggler as a hybrid class, who's primary purpose is the transporting of illegal and contraband materials and personnel through enforced blockades. All our combat skills are towork towardsthat functionality.
So you coming here to tell us we're fine in will trigger animosity because you're evaluating us as something we're not. That same misjudgement happens to you, when you're judged as a Jedi rather than a Healer or whatever you are. You above all should understand where we're coming from, and realise that criticising us for having a working professionwill only ever result in clashes, because in our minds, smugglign *is* the profession
If you ask me I never approved Smuggler's as a Pistoleer hybrid. I had preferred if Smuggler had stayed as a "Dark Merchant" hybrid based on 0040 Artisan. I have played the pen and paper roleplaying game since it came 1986, and most adventures where based upon smuggling. I have no issues with Smugglers who like to be Smugglers. I do not blame you for feeling thrown over with broken promises and lies.
I do not like the lack of diversity in this game. If I wanted to play a game in which 7 different templates went out to the wilderness to kill stuff for experience, I would have picked Diablo 2 instead.
My reasons to post here is elsewhere.
Look at it like this:
I have been a Jedi fan since my early childhood.Not becouse they could hurl lightning through their fingers or be the ultimate fighter. No, becouse I like the philosophy, using the Force for Knowledge and Understanding, being teachers and protectors rather than warriors. My vision of Jedi have always been the Light Side Jedi who seek the forceto help and assist. The people who seek the force for power is Dark Jedi, who's greedoften lead to their own undoing.
I loathed the FRS from day one, judging it as really bad taste, radically against my old schoolimage of Jedi.
To use your quote:
"'True' Jedi, as opposed to the template-chasing hordes, never ever saw Jedi as a pvp-pwn-all profession. We see Jedi as a knowledgeseeking scholar, who's primary purpose is to seek understanding about life while protecting peace and order throughout the galaxy."
This kind of Jedi, who I see as the TRUE Jedi, are completely abscent from the game mechanics, and not supported at all. Instead Jedi is given away to powerhungry 15 yearolds who go Jedi just to pwn eachother in the Jedicrowded GCW.
Since there's a MAJORITY of theese "who cares about Jedi ethics, I just want to pwn j00", Jedi continue to be some pvp frs mumbojumbo and Light Jedi remains unheard of, unsupported. Alot of Jedi spend alot of energy in eating their own... attacking the other disciplines, their padawans, people who unlocked after a specific date and ofcourse - other professions.
It's no fun to be Scarface's little sister, confused with thoose people.
Also... if I am not mistaken, Raph Koster wrote in his "How to Manage a Large-Scale Online Gaming Community" that a nice tactic to misdirect people's energy is to play them out against eachother. And I am guessing that's whats going on here. The devs want in-fighting since it covers up their responsibilities, making people believe the "other" gets more attention, when in fact neither gets attention.
So the message I want to deliver is: Lying and anti-canon Devsand "please dont fix XY" players are our enemies, regardless in what shape they take. Smugglers who attack friendly players based on the fact that they have a Jedi character is not better than thoose powerhungry 15yearold wannabe Jedi'smentioned above.
I do understand where you're coming from, but
Most Jedi - from my experience - are 'Our Reward Is To Own You' smacktalking imbeciles. Hence the reaction to Jedi. Yes, you're unfortunately grouped with them, because you're in the minority.
We, on the other hand, aren't in the minority...yet.
So from my point of view, you are being the very 'Don't Fix XYZ' player you campaign against, and you're coming from a profession that is in a better place than ours - referring Jedi as opposed to Master Healer specifically
cpz wrote:
I do understand where you're coming from, but Most Jedi - from my experience - are 'Our Reward Is To Own You' smacktalking imbeciles. Hence the reaction to Jedi. Yes, you're unfortunately grouped with them, because you're in the minority.
We, on the other hand, aren't in the minority...yet.
So from my point of view, you are being the very 'Don't Fix XYZ' player you campaign against, and you're coming from a profession that is in a better place than ours - referring Jedi as opposed to Master Healer specifically
MsNiL wrote:
WillburWright wrote: Hurrah! You confuse me, MsNiL.... very greatly. One day you are making a list of all the professions' problems, the next you are blind. We cannot smuggle? What is there not to see. Don't give me any "skills" crap. YOu're smarter that that. Stop playing with words and bug off!
Yes, I have tried to help the crippled professions, but I am tired of the hypocrisy and the hostility.
I went over here last week and had to take ALOT of crapwhen I wanted to offer your appearently popular profession to get back to a useful state.
Why did I get alot of crap... becouse of my support? No, becouse people read my 'sig' that one of my characters was a "Jedi".
There's now solid evidence that more than half of the Jedi profession is so redundant that they are the rarest skillsets mastered in the entire game... still there's ignorant fools jumping on us. It's obvious that there's many who couldnt handle the truth: 60% of the Jedi is the most shafted/gimped/crippled/nerfed in the entire game. The whole "Jedi got all the attention" argument just got flushed deep, and I can understand the frustration, but now you should know that we need help too. We where never upgraded to be compatible in the new system and we suffer every day from it. Fact is, I dont give a crap about content as long as I am made compatible with the game.
Smuggler's hides behindMaster Force Defender's popularity to be able to "low blow" Force Enhancers/Healers/Wielders over and over and over again. By stomping on the weakest in the game you are nowhere better than "please dont fix anything else" fotm Jedi. This makes you appear ignorant and Selfish!
Ask for content, fine. But 2 out of 3 posts on the smuggler forum is about hating Jedi rather than talking about smuggling. Suggestion: quit asking for others to remain unfixed, or you remove all sympathy from friendly but crippled players, including Jedi.
Message Edited by MsNiL on 08-20-2005 07:57 PM
MsNil, regarding your statement I bolded and put in orange:
Until you STOPcalling our request to actually SMUGGLE "content" and realize thatSMUGGLEis a VERB -- a verb THAT DESCRIBES WHAT OUR PROFESSION WAS ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO DO... well, I just can't take your analysis of the smuggling profession or anything you say aboutit seriously.
Every other profession in this game can at least do what they are supposed to do -- maybe not as well as they would like --but SMUGGLERS cannot, do not, may not, will probably NEVER at this point, actually smuggle.
I did not buy this game to slice your weapons or be a drug dealer. I bought it to smuggle.
Message Edited by LM on 08-20-2005 07:54 PM