Smuggler Archive

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Retroalias wrote:

It's saved my butt in PvP more times than I can count. Take for example a heated base defence. You are about to die, FD, and wait till a doc can come and fix ya up. In a heated batte like this no one is gonna take the time to black bar you.

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Agreed, FD can be highly effective in PVP. I just don't think it should be used in PVP.

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Why not, in a situation like I just described I think you can justify FD quite well. You are 'playing dead' to the enemy who is concentrating on the 'living' . They are not gonna take the time to check all the 'bodies'

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Retroalias wrote:
It's saved my butt in PvP more times than I can count. Take for example a heated base defence. You are about to die, FD, and wait till a doc can come and fix ya up. In a heated batte like this no one is gonna take the time to black bar you.

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Agreed, FD can be highly effective in PVP. I just don't think it should be used in PVP.

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It is a tactic. I know for people who think it is all about having the advantageous template and 4 friends this is a bizarre concept. But half of the idea of fighting is tactics. And FD is a perfectly legitimate tactic for a smuggler. Jedi have force-run, we have FD, BH have getting to choose the time and place for the fight. Each profession has its advantages and disadvantages. The problem is that the BH don't realise just how powerful their skill is. The ability to basically remain covert until YOU feel like starting the fight is immensely powerful. Choosing the place and time of the battle, being able to prepare when your opponent may not be able to, getting the first shot off every time, these are the things that every person who has been in a fight (real or simulated) knows give you the best chances of success. The BH gets all of this, and since the smuggler or jedi is on the defensive.. it makes sense that they have powerful defensive abilities like force run and feign. Abilities that allow us to at least escape a fight we can not win and were not prepared for in the first place.

Message Edited by Mentski on 09-29-2004 09:38 PM

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Mentski wrote:

How about to stop dabblers (like jedi) having a fully effective FD, make the system so the time limit you have until you can do it again is proportianal to your skill in the tree. People with Dirty Fighting 1 could have, say, a 5 minute timer, while masters would have significantly less if not none at all?

Message Edited by Mentski on 09-29-2004 09:38 PM

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well there's not timer on it, but there is a proportional system based on how far up the rogue tree you are. If you click on the boxes, they'll say "Feign Death +XX" ... this already makes it so dabblers don't get the full benefit that a master smuggler does.

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Duedroth wrote:

there's not timer on it, but there is a proportional system based on how far up the rogue tree you are. If you click on the boxes, they'll say "Feign Death +XX" ... this already makes it so dabblers don't get the full benefit that a master smuggler does.

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If this worked as it's supposed to, I don't think we'd be worrying about the timer. Let the dabblers have their FD, albeit an unreliable one, and leave us masters with the full benefits. Problem-solved.

And when/if it comes time for BHs to zero in on us, so be it. None of our other abilities (or those of our partner profession - ie Pistoleer) have anything that even vaguely competes, so a Master Smuggler is already at a disadvantage and will need Feign as-is.

-Zz

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Duedroth wrote:

well there's not timer on it, but there is a proportional system based on how far up the rogue tree you are. If you click on the boxes, they'll say "Feign Death +XX" ... this already makes it so dabblers don't get the full benefit that a master smuggler does.

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Message Edited by Mentski on 09-29-2004 10:43 PM

So, one of the guys on the BH boards had a decent idea that I felt needed to be expaned upon. Tell me, if I posted this on the BH boards, how quickly do you think i'd be getting flamed?

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SamousNemo wrote:

Well it seems that a lot of Smugglers are upset with the idea and I can see where they are coming from. I'd like to point out though that, yeah, it is very annoying to show up for a kill and have someone prevent you from completing your bounty at any time they see fit. So maybe we could go at some sort of comprimise?

1) Leave FD exactly as is. Don't move it to Master, no timer, nothing, just leave it alone. Keeps smugglers happy (or as happy as they can get with such a nerfed prof).

As a smuggler, anything that keeps our few useful skills still worthwhile would be much appreciated. Amazingly enough, many of us would enjoy the chance to be hunted by BHs on occasion, and lets face is, FD is the only way we don't die in the first 10 seconds. So keeping smugglers happy is a good thing. You might want to put the shoe on the other foot though...And just so you guys know, I have never had any desire to become a Jedi myself.

2) When a JEDI uses FD, the bounty is completed, the BH gets full pay, and the Jedi loses the ascribed XP

2.1) When a BH uses FD, the bounty is failed, the BH is penalized half the bounty's value in credits by his employer for not accomplishing the assignment, and the BH is placed on the Bounty Hunter Terminals.

a) The BH gets his cash and has did his job. So now the BH are happy too.

a.1)BH now has something solid to risk. So now the Jedi are happy too knowing BH's also had the possiblity of being hunted

b) Jedi MUST be penalized with XP loss or this will open another opportunity of Exploition, ie, BH takes mission on Jedi, attack is made, Jedi FDs, BH gets paid, Jedi isn't penalized, and BH splits cash with Jedi.

b.1)BH MUST be penalized in some form or another to prevent the constant griefing of one particular Jedi, and to add content such that there is more risk/reward within the game.

Supposedly from the update note on the Jedi boards, Jedi are penalized with XP for using /regainconsciousness. If they can do this, I don't see why they can't track when a Jedi uses FD and take the appropriate measures.

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well there's not timer on it, but there is a proportional system based on how far up the rogue tree you are. If you click on the boxes, they'll say "Feign Death +XX" ... this already makes it so dabblers don't get the full benefit that a master smuggler does.

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I’m pretty sure that modifier you get as you go up the tree is the chance that the mob(s) that have you aggro’d will stop engaging you when you get up. As the mob in this case (BH vs jedi) is a human player, the modifier actually does nothing.

Center of Being is a defensive mechanism. When you go overt, you're actively seeking out combat. So if you choose to go on offense (ie be overt), you should no longer be afforded the protection of center of being, or state defenses, ranged and melee defenses for that matter.

and using feign death is an awesome tactic - especially when the opposition guns specifically for someone who has the skill. The fight opens up with everyone pounding on 1 guy, he's almost dead... woops he fiegned and they're still attacking him/her while the rest of the group gets free shots at the others. The other's move on, a doc slaps a stim E on the fiegned (or s/he fow's) and they're back kicking butt again.

Message Edited by Ipseck on 09-29-2004 12:06 PM

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Good point about center of Being. So maybe the words defensive mechanism is not the right words to convey what I am trying to say. I don't disagree that FD is works great in PVP. I just think it is ridiculous to use FD in PVP.

Eyeshot can be highly effective in PvP too. I don't think it should be used in PvP either.


Agree with you 100%


Oh yeah, and to those who feel FD would not realistically work in the real world... I don't care how good a shot you are, there is no one who can shoot you 60 times a minute in the Eye during a running gunbattle. As such, spamming eyeshot is even LESS realistic that someone playing dead.

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Agree on both points, but we are talking about the Star Wars universe. So I don't know how relevant reality is!

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Mentski wrote:

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Duedroth wrote:

well there's not timer on it, but there is a proportional system based on how far up the rogue tree you are. If you click on the boxes, they'll say "Feign Death +XX" ... this already makes it so dabblers don't get the full benefit that a master smuggler does.

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Duh, I know theres not. this thread (at least originally) was about implementing one... which I would base on the very mods you are mentioning (which incidently, dont seem to work too well, there seems no difference). Not only would your chances of feigning be proportional to your skill but the speed you do it, do you see?

Message Edited by Mentski on 09-29-2004 10:43 PM

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I wasn't telling you that there's no timer on it. I knew you most likely already knew that. I was simply saying that "well, there isn't this, but there IS this..."

Sorry for the mixup m8

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I guess I struck a nerve.

I don't begrudge SOE for allowing unlimited Jedi; it's their game they can do what they wish. But I will continue to applaud and assist ever effort to curtail the every expanding jedi population.