Smuggler Archive

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BruSwillis wrote:

Yes tested this and it's as JustG announced. No FD in PvP, still works in PvE. Brilliant change, good work Devs!!

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A brilliantchange would've been to allow a chance of PvP success for FD, very small at low levels of dirty fightingbut decent at master smuggler, maybe with reduced chances against a BH. Or replaced it with some kind of evasion skill. Or some other solution to the BH/Jedi problem that didn't just nuke the skill, but allowed "real" career smugglers an actual chance of surviving an attack by a PvP template. Especially since, according to reports from testing by other smugglers,we'll have to be overt/SpecOps to delegate faction, one of our few useful skills that's left.

I don't think this change is brilliant, I think it's more like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut - and the smuggler profession is like the table that the nut was sitting on.

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BruSwillis wrote:

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Brilliant my ass. We came up with about 20 better ones that would've made everyone a lot happier. Like making it a skill that you progress in the higher you get in the smuggling tree with a counter-skill for bounty-hunters. If you succede, combat is OVER. If you fail. You get shot in the face at a BIG multiplier. Much easier, solves the problem, doesn't decrease the functionality.

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That's better? Tell me, how it can be better.

You are againstthe enemyand you are playing dead and thatenemy knows for a fact you are still alive but cant do jack sh!t about it execept stand there and watch you. Ohh he can keep firing into you (a sure sign he knows you are still alive dont you think?)but only damage your armour or use an attack/weapon that will make your health bars black, how the hell is that in anyway better then taking FD out of PvP?

FD has no place in PvP. FD is tricking the enemy into thinking you are dead, if that enemy knows you are not dead he will finish the job and kill you, that, in PvP is how it should work and with this fix, how it will work. In a large scale fight, you might be able to pull off a FD move, enough to get yourself healed or get out of a DB with the amount of action and confusion of a large fight around you, it might also not pay off and you will get DB'ed, that's how the skill should work. Like I said, now it's fixed, that's how it will work.

FD has no place in PvP.

The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE.

By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about.

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That's what we've been saying over and over on this forum - by definition, a successful "feign death" should make the enemy think we are dead, i.e. on their screen they see the smuggler as (corpse of...). Obviously there should be some checks and balances in that case, but the devs took the blunt force solution instead.

I'm also a long-term master smuggler who's never used FD in PvP, becauseon most ofthe few occasions that I'vebeen overt it's been by choice to PvP. After this patch, we'll still need to be overt/SpecOps to trade in faction, which (if we want toply one our two trades that's still worth a damn)is against the "no forced PvP" mantra that the Devs are giving with this GCW revamp - and they've taken our profession's only real defence against a gank squad camping a recruiter.

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mrbleepbleep wrote:

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BruSwillis wrote:

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Brilliant my ass. We came up with about 20 better ones that would've made everyone a lot happier. Like making it a skill that you progress in the higher you get in the smuggling tree with a counter-skill for bounty-hunters. If you succede, combat is OVER. If you fail. You get shot in the face at a BIG multiplier. Much easier, solves the problem, doesn't decrease the functionality.

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That's better? Tell me, how it can be better.

You are againstthe enemyand you are playing dead and thatenemy knows for a fact you are still alive but cant do jack sh!t about it execept stand there and watch you. Ohh he can keep firing into you (a sure sign he knows you are still alive dont you think?)but only damage your armour or use an attack/weapon that will make your health bars black, how the hell is that in anyway better then taking FD out of PvP?

FD has no place in PvP. FD is tricking the enemy into thinking you are dead, if that enemy knows you are not dead he will finish the job and kill you, that, in PvP is how it should work and with this fix, how it will work. In a large scale fight, you might be able to pull off a FD move, enough to get yourself healed or get out of a DB with the amount of action and confusion of a large fight around you, it might also not pay off and you will get DB'ed, that's how the skill should work. Like I said, now it's fixed, that's how it will work.

FD has no place in PvP.

The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE.

By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about.

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That's what we've been saying over and over on this forum - by definition, a successful "feign death" should make the enemy think we are dead, i.e. on their screen they see the smuggler as (corpse of...). Obviously there should be some checks and balances in that case, but the devs took the blunt force solution instead.

I'm also a long-term master smuggler who's never used FD in PvP, becauseon most ofthe few occasions that I'vebeen overt it's been by choice to PvP. After this patch, we'll still need to be overt/SpecOps to trade in faction, which (if we want toply one our two trades that's still worth a damn)is against the "no forced PvP" mantra that the Devs are giving with this GCW revamp - and they've taken our profession's only real defence against a gank squad camping a recruiter.

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:

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mrbleepbleep wrote:

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BruSwillis wrote:

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Brilliant my ass. We came up with about 20 better ones that would've made everyone a lot happier. Like making it a skill that you progress in the higher you get in the smuggling tree with a counter-skill for bounty-hunters. If you succede, combat is OVER. If you fail. You get shot in the face at a BIG multiplier. Much easier, solves the problem, doesn't decrease the functionality.

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That's better? Tell me, how it can be better.

You are againstthe enemyand you are playing dead and thatenemy knows for a fact you are still alive but cant do jack sh!t about it execept stand there and watch you. Ohh he can keep firing into you (a sure sign he knows you are still alive dont you think?)but only damage your armour or use an attack/weapon that will make your health bars black, how the hell is that in anyway better then taking FD out of PvP?

FD has no place in PvP. FD is tricking the enemy into thinking you are dead, if that enemy knows you are not dead he will finish the job and kill you, that, in PvP is how it should work and with this fix, how it will work. In a large scale fight, you might be able to pull off a FD move, enough to get yourself healed or get out of a DB with the amount of action and confusion of a large fight around you, it might also not pay off and you will get DB'ed, that's how the skill should work. Like I said, now it's fixed, that's how it will work.

FD has no place in PvP.

The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE.

By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about.

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That's what we've been saying over and over on this forum - by definition, a successful "feign death" should make the enemy think we are dead, i.e. on their screen they see the smuggler as (corpse of...). Obviously there should be some checks and balances in that case, but the devs took the blunt force solution instead.

I'm also a long-term master smuggler who's never used FD in PvP, becauseon most ofthe few occasions that I'vebeen overt it's been by choice to PvP. After this patch, we'll still need to be overt/SpecOps to trade in faction, which (if we want toply one our two trades that's still worth a damn)is against the "no forced PvP" mantra that the Devs are giving with this GCW revamp - and they've taken our profession's only real defence against a gank squad camping a recruiter.

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Well, lemme give you my view on faction purchases.

Originally, there was no /delegate command to give faction points to another player. Faction trading was done solely between the Smuggler and the Recruiter. I believe that's the primary intent of its use, for the Smuggler to help himself out, swap sides, et cetera. Then the /delegate command was added in. Players could now give each other faction points. Around this same time, the 500 point faction cap was put in the game.

When you think about it, you can easily buy faction for yourself and your own needs, but to help a fellow player, you'll have to be PvP enabled. In short, you're turning yourself into the player equivilent of a roaming, attackable faction recruiter that spawns in the wild.

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It has occurred to me in the past that buying and /delegating might not have been intended, and it was the cap that made me think that (since it took a macro to do it effectively).I interpretedthe removal of the cap as beingapproval oftrading infaction.

Hmm, maybe I shouldn't go talking about this, it might get faction trading nerfed too...

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mrbleepbleep wrote:

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:

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mrbleepbleep wrote:

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BruSwillis wrote:

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Brilliant my ass. We came up with about 20 better ones that would've made everyone a lot happier. Like making it a skill that you progress in the higher you get in the smuggling tree with a counter-skill for bounty-hunters. If you succede, combat is OVER. If you fail. You get shot in the face at a BIG multiplier. Much easier, solves the problem, doesn't decrease the functionality.

---

That's better? Tell me, how it can be better.

You are against the enemy and you are playing dead and that enemy knows for a fact you are still alive but cant do jack sh!t about it execept stand there and watch you. Ohh he can keep firing into you (a sure sign he knows you are still alive dont you think?) but only damage your armour or use an attack/weapon that will make your health bars black, how the hell is that in anyway better then taking FD out of PvP?

FD has no place in PvP. FD is tricking the enemy into thinking you are dead, if that enemy knows you are not dead he will finish the job and kill you, that, in PvP is how it should work and with this fix, how it will work. In a large scale fight, you might be able to pull off a FD move, enough to get yourself healed or get out of a DB with the amount of action and confusion of a large fight around you, it might also not pay off and you will get DB'ed, that's how the skill should work. Like I said, now it's fixed, that's how it will work.

FD has no place in PvP.

The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE.

By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about.

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That's what we've been saying over and over on this forum - by definition, a successful "feign death" should make the enemy think we are dead, i.e. on their screen they see the smuggler as (corpse of...). Obviously there should be some checks and balances in that case, but the devs took the blunt force solution instead.

I'm also a long-term master smuggler who's never used FD in PvP, because on most of the few occasions that I've been overt it's been by choice to PvP. After this patch, we'll still need to be overt/SpecOps to trade in faction, which (if we want to ply one our two trades that's still worth a damn) is against the "no forced PvP" mantra that the Devs are giving with this GCW revamp - and they've taken our profession's only real defence against a gank squad camping a recruiter.

---

Well, lemme give you my view on faction purchases.

Originally, there was no /delegate command to give faction points to another player. Faction trading was done solely between the Smuggler and the Recruiter. I believe that's the primary intent of its use, for the Smuggler to help himself out, swap sides, et cetera. Then the /delegate command was added in. Players could now give each other faction points. Around this same time, the 500 point faction cap was put in the game.

When you think about it, you can easily buy faction for yourself and your own needs, but to help a fellow player, you'll have to be PvP enabled. In short, you're turning yourself into the player equivilent of a roaming, attackable faction recruiter that spawns in the wild.

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It has occurred to me in the past that buying and /delegating might not have been intended, and it was the cap that made me think that (since it took a macro to do it effectively). I interpreted the removal of the cap as being approval of trading in faction.

Hmm, maybe I shouldn't go talking about this, it might get faction trading nerfed too...

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mrbleepbleep wrote:

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LaughingWolf wrote:

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DrevenStrobe wrote:

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LaughingWolf wrote:
Oops Dreven, just saw this hehehe

I started a thread about FD in PvE before seeing yours. Ah well, came obviously to the same conclusion.

So we need to be Special Forces to delegate eh? Ah well, in a way, that obligation is part of the spice (no pun intended) in FPs dealing.

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The Spec Forces thing isn't really THAT big of a deal...it only takes 30 seconds to change from Combatant to Spec Forces...then takes 5 minutes to change back. It's a whole lot better than the HOUR that it takes now to change from Overt to Covert.

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Agreed.

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I disagree - I think it is a big deal that it makes us one of 3 professions that are forced to bePvP-vulnerable while performing a core function of our profession (alongside BH and Jedi). BH at least get to choose the PvP on their terms, and Jedi can avoid it just by following a few simple rules - and both of them have more intrinsic combat ability than smugglers. Now that FD is gone, most smuggler templates are now pretty much helpless if attacked while delegating, and whether the change time is 5 minutes or 60, it still isn't fast enough if you're under PvP attack.

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BruSwillis wrote:

FD has no place in PvP. Really? Cause I've been using it successfully in PvP for well over a year.

The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE. (No, I was fairly pissed about the PvP change)

By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about. I'm sick and tired of some smugglers who seem to get off on the fact that they have never used FD in PvP. Good for you, have a cookie or something. However, for me at least, FD+ FOW was a very viable combat tactic. Not to mention a nice thing to have when you get slapped with a 300-400 tic mind fire and the doc can't get to you right away.

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mrmanta wrote:

I'm sick and tired of some smugglers who seem to get off on the fact that they have never used FD in PvP. Good for you, have a cookie or something. However, for me at least, FD+ FOW was a very viable combat tactic. Not to mention a nice thing to have when you get slapped with a 300-400 tic mind fire and the doc can't get to you right away.

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