Smuggler Archive

Thread: My findings so far on TC-Gorath

Nicolas_Frost
Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:27 am
#40


mrmanta wrote:


BruSwillis wrote:

FD has no place in PvP. Really? Cause I've been using it successfully in PvP for well over a year.

The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE. (No, I was fairly pissed about the PvP change)

By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about. I'm sick and tired of some smugglers who seem to get off on the fact that they have never used FD in PvP. Good for you, have a cookie or something. However, for me at least, FD+ FOW was a very viable combat tactic. Not to mention a nice thing to have when you get slapped with a 300-400 tic mind fire and the doc can't get to you right away.









Now, Fish, while I agree that Feign Death was a valid move in PvP when not used as a "Ha-ha! You can't kill me!" button, I disagree that you should get mean about it. Like you said, there are some valid reasons for its use as an escape manuver, just not all the freaking time(Jedi). If people wanna put a feather in thier cap because they've never used it in PvP, let them. They just shouldn't expect us to be impressed by it. Five stars to balance your post.

Message Edited by Nicolas_Frost on 02-20-2005 09:27 AM



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Gavindar
Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:40 am
#41

Howdy guys and gals, I dont post here often but I thought i would chime in with my 2 credits and speak froma diferentpoint of veiwfor a minute.


First of all I know this game isnt everquest and am glad that it had very little in common with that game. A little background on that. I used to play a Monk on a EQ pvp server and Monks have the ability to FD. It works much better in EQ then SWG and monks get very good at useing it to pull single MOB's....but they cant use it in pvp all that will happen is u fall on the ground and the person beating on you keeps hitting you...harder actually. The DEV's over ther see this as a "get out of free card" lol, early in the game and got rid of it fast.


Now I have also been ganked selling FP and i do agree also that we need something to get us out of a fight for this very reason, Im a MP MS with some TKA and can hold my own, but some classes like um fencer will just destroy me in a figh t, what im saying is that im not scared to pvp if i have to or choose to but as is right now some classes i cant hang with.


Do i think they should have leftit be? Yes! Do I think they could have fixed it so newb jedi cant use it, Yes. There were better ways to fix the problem and them saying that FD was broken or whatever and they fixed the problem IMHO was a bold faced lie and just a excuse to make the BH happy. Do the BH deserve to be happy, well in this case yes, FD was you could say a exploit with the way it was being used. Even if you look back and read the history of smugglers they had a fix for FD...what not fix the current problem over a year ago or whatever it was when they did that.


I think we should wait and see if this goes LIVE and then maybe how it will effect us after the GCW revamp and the CURB.


Oh well just my 2 cents



IGN is the same as forum handle
SmugglinZane
Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:28 am
#42






BruSwillis wrote:





mrmanta wrote:




I'm sick and tired of some smugglers who seem to get off on the fact that they have never used FD in PvP. Good for you, have a cookie or something. However, for me at least, FD+ FOW was a very viable combat tactic. Not to mention a nice thing to have when you get slapped with a 300-400 tic mind fire and the doc can't get to you right away.









No here, you have the cookie cus you wont be FDing in PvP anymore (thank god)
Let me ask you this then, when FD'ed in PvP, has your enemy ever fallen for it and walked off leaving you alone? Or have they come over, kept attacking you or gave you black bars? Is so, then your FD didnt work, they didnt fall for it so why should they be able to keep shooting you to no avail?
Now it's fixed we dont have to worry about it eh?







Yes they have fallen for it.



"Jedi claims of being "broken" are like saying "But my TV isn't widescreen! It's broken! My TV can't show high-def pictures in 1080i, it can only do 720i! It's broken!" Meanwhile, crafters are saying "We'd really like to have a TV that's larger than 12" and gets more than 4 channels and doesn't constantly lose vertical control", and entertainers are saying "Can we get some color instead of this B&W piece of junk?" And smugglers? We're listening to radio programs of "The Shadow" and "The Abbot and Costello Comedy Hour" and hearing FDR's Fireside Chats. We don't even HAVE a damn TV, much less a broken one or a "broken" one by Jedi standards. I'd LOVE to be as "broken" as they are." - The Legendary Solo4114
einkel
Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:43 am
#43






mrbleepbleep wrote:





BruSwillis wrote:





JTGAlpha wrote:

Brilliant my ass. We came up with about 20 better ones that would've made everyone a lot happier. Like making it a skill that you progress in the higher you get in the smuggling tree with a counter-skill for bounty-hunters. If you succede, combat is OVER. If you fail. You get shot in the face at a BIG multiplier. Much easier, solves the problem, doesn't decrease the functionality.







That's better? Tell me, how it can be better.


You are againstthe enemyand you are playing dead and thatenemy knows for a fact you are still alive but cant do jack sh!t about it execept stand there and watch you. Ohh he can keep firing into you (a sure sign he knows you are still alive dont you think?)but only damage your armour or use an attack/weapon that will make your health bars black, how the hell is that in anyway better then taking FD out of PvP?


FD has no place in PvP. FD is tricking the enemy into thinking you are dead, if that enemy knows you are not dead he will finish the job and kill you, that, in PvP is how it should work and with this fix, how it will work. In a large scale fight, you might be able to pull off a FD move, enough to get yourself healed or get out of a DB with the amount of action and confusion of a large fight around you, it might also not pay off and you will get DB'ed, that's how the skill should work. Like I said, now it's fixed, that's how it will work.


FD has no place in PvP.


The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE.


By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about.






That's what we've been saying over and over on this forum - by definition, a successful "feign death" should make the enemy think we are dead, i.e. on their screen they see the smuggler as (corpse of...). Obviously there should be some checks and balances in that case, but the devs took the blunt force solution instead.


I'm also a long-term master smuggler who's never used FD in PvP, becauseon most ofthe few occasions that I'vebeen overt it's been by choice to PvP. After this patch, we'll still need to be overt/SpecOps to trade in faction, which (if we want toply one our two trades that's still worth a damn)is against the "no forced PvP" mantra that the Devs are giving with this GCW revamp - and they've taken our profession's only real defence against a gank squad camping a recruiter.






I agree on this point completely. In my opinion since smugglers may one day end up on the Bounty Hunter Terminals. They do need a a good system in fooling the Toon as if hey are dead.


Also since they are dirty fighters they should have the ability to stand up and shoot their fooled enemy in the back as they walk away with some sort of bonus.. FD should work in PvP it should say Corpse of so and so if it is sucessful. If its unsucessful then their enemy should have some sort of bonus. Should work the same way ith NPCs they shouldnt reaggro the smuggler if its sucessful until said smuggler stands and counters with Backstab shot or something.


Their should be checks and balances and the higher you are in Smuggler to say MAster smuggler gives you 65% success rate or whatever. It has to be so Dabblers arent as good as Masters period. Bounty Hunters should have counters since they are suppose to be skilled Killers they should know when or if they killed their mark. Now Im not saying they shouldnt be fooled but as they increase up to Master their Knowledge should get better to. Yes to keep folks from dabbling in BH heck dont give BH bonuses to the feigndeath Check till the get to INV 4 and add bonus for every teir 4 skill in the BH tree. Its to stop the Dabblers or template users. Make Master of the professions better at the sought after skills.


The system should as in FD during PvP right now they Players Toon should think your dead but in all honestly the one behind the computer is going I know hes feigning. If the Toon is fooled there should be no way for them to attck blackbar nada. Until the said smuggler stands and gets the backstab chance which in turn would start the whole PvP experience again. That also gives the said smuggler a chance to walk off and live ot sell spice another day.




Matticus Martigan - Outlaw Bounty Hunter

Red Phoenix - Crimson Valley Naboo
TheFarce SWG Comics
JTGAlpha
Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:49 am
#44

BruS...did you even read my idea. IT'S SKILL BASED. So yeah, I'm lying there "dead." A bounty hunter makes an automatic counter skill. IF HE WINS, which is something he can't do now, he shoots me in the face for a LOT of damage. IF HE LOSES, then combat is over because he thinks I'm dead. How is that NOT better than just nerfing the change?



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mrmanta
Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:59 am
#45






Nicolas_Frost wrote:




mrmanta wrote:





BruSwillis wrote:


FD has no place in PvP. Really? Cause I've been using it successfully in PvP for well over a year.


The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE. (No, I was fairly pissed about the PvP change)


By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about. I'm sick and tired of some smugglers who seem to get off on the fact that they have never used FD in PvP. Good for you, have a cookie or something. However, for me at least, FD+ FOW was a very viable combat tactic. Not to mention a nice thing to have when you get slapped with a 300-400 tic mind fire and the doc can't get to you right away.









Now, Fish, while I agree that Feign Death was a valid move in PvP when not used as a "Ha-ha! You can't kill me!" button, I disagree that you should get mean about it. Like you said, there are some valid reasons for its use as an escape manuver, just not all the freaking time(Jedi). If people wanna put a feather in thier cap because they've never used it in PvP, let them. They just shouldn't expect us to be impressed by it. Five stars to balance your post.

Message Edited by Nicolas_Frost on 02-20-2005 09:27 AM




I'm not trying to get mean, I just get annoyed at the posters who think that they are something special because they have neverused it in PvP. Do I think that I'm something specuial because I have, not at all. Like almost all of us, I have been horrified my the jedi mis-use of the skill and have been a long time supporter of a 'tier' system making FD all buy unusable by 0010 dabblers. I think the basic FD in PvP vs PvE debate is just part of one of SWGs bigger problems.


That is to say the fight between PvErs and PvPers. Generally most of thesmugglers that I tend to notiuce being anti-FD in PvP tens to not be big PvPers and visa versa with those that are for it in PvP.
What both sides have failed to realise is that both are valid points. FD in it's original form is in fact, overpowerd in PvP as a 'you can't kill me button'. However, this far swing to the opposing side of making it a 'hey, come kill me please' button is also unacceptable. I'm not going to go intoways to improve it cause that's allready been discussed to death. Perhaps when our fall 2008 revamp comes along it will be revamped or replaced with a usefull skill.

BruSwillis
Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:22 pm
#46






JTGAlpha wrote:

Brilliant my ass. We came up with about 20 better ones that would've made everyone a lot happier. Like making it a skill that you progress in the higher you get in the smuggling tree with a counter-skill for bounty-hunters. If you succede, combat is OVER. If you fail. You get shot in the face at a BIG multiplier. Much easier, solves the problem, doesn't decrease the functionality.







That's better? Tell me, how it can be better.


You are againstthe enemyand you are playing dead and thatenemy knows for a fact you are still alive but cant do jack sh!t about it execept stand there and watch you. Ohh he can keep firing into you (a sure sign he knows you are still alive dont you think?)but only damage your armour or use an attack/weapon that will make your health bars black, how the hell is that in anyway better then taking FD out of PvP?


FD has no place in PvP. FD is tricking the enemy into thinking you are dead, if that enemy knows you are not dead he will finish the job and kill you, that, in PvP is how it should work and with this fix, how it will work. In a large scale fight, you might be able to pull off a FD move, enough to get yourself healed or get out of a DB with the amount of action and confusion of a large fight around you, it might also not pay off and you will get DB'ed, that's how the skill should work. Like I said, now it's fixed, that's how it will work.


FD has no place in PvP.


The whole bad vibe about this change when it came up on friday was people thought it wouldnt work in PvE, we have all proved there is no change in PvE.


By the way, ill reiterate, Im a Master Smuggler who has NEVER used FD in PvP and have been a smugler since it was put in the game in beta3 when the pre-reqs were eng4/pistol4/unarmed4 so dont start the flames about me not knowing what im on about.





_____BruMasterUnderworldSmuggler.
___________Toth'raRebelBothanSpy.

Chewnada
Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:05 pm
#47


Yay we got hit with the big nerf bat again.


I would be all for this change if 1 thing were to happen. Every other proffession lost the use of 1 skill in pvp. No scratch that make it 2 skills. Oh wait no make that 3 skills. I can no longer fd. Okay I will panic shot you and run. Doh can't do that either. Umm how bout I low blow you and run. Doh forgot can't do that. Umm Last ditch? Bah who can't work around stun if it even sticks. Not to mention I am already beat down by the time I get that one off.


I wouldn't be a pissy smuggler if we had even a semblance of a working skill to fight with. FD is probably the biggest viable pvp skill we have. Yes I used it as a tef system. I often enjoy running off and pvping with people and when they call in support hitting the fd button. (What Rifleman calls in jedi support to kill a smuggler? Its happened to me.) So I am fd they are black barring me. I call in my support and invite them to my group. Odds evened out my stats healed I am back to fighting.


So the Devs want us to do what exactly now? I am not a Slice Machine. Spices? Broken. Combat? Broken. Underworld? Whatis that?


Angry? yes extremely. Do I have a right? Yes I spent the same skill points every other profession did. Why do they get the right to kill me fast and I get the right to just die? Can I not have the right to fight back?


Faith in the devs? Never will happen. I once did but then they nerfed all my skills out of exsistance.


Grauowwwwen pissy wookie



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