Smuggler Archive
Thread: PLEASE do not nerf Feign Death!!!!
TatheModek
Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:51 am
#27
I think they should make it PVE only, then theres no problem with PVP griefers and the like. When your deadyour deadend of story.
You shouldn't PVP in the first place if you dont have the skills to back it up and you use FD as a crutch.
Of course this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Angila Loki
Master Smuggler/Master Pistoleer/Working on TKA
Message Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 07:53 AM
Orcajum
Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:42 am
#28
TatheModek wrote:I think they should make it PVE only, then theres no problem with PVP griefers and the like. When your dead your dead end of story.You shouldn't PVP in the first place if you dont have the skills to back it up and you use FD as a crutch.Of course this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.Angila LokiMaster Smuggler/Master Pistoleer/Working on TKAMessage Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 07:53 AM
The problem i have with this is, if Feign Death is a PvE only skill, you might as well remove it entirely from the game. Why? Because the stated "end-goal" of the SWG is supposed to revolve around the Galactic Civil War. As such, a skill that is only viable in the PvE arena, has just about no effect on the GCW, and is therfore relatively worthless in the grand scheme of the overall game. It's like weaponsmiths being able to create T21s, but only able to sell them to NPC characters. What's the point?
ValiantHalibut
Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:24 am
#29
Eivo wrote:
Your abosulty right they would complain, but the point is they failed their mission. Either way it was just a thought. However the reason I beilive in NEEDS to appear real is because of what the players do know. Your right when its not role-playing. I can count on one hand how many people I know that role-play. But if it doesn't appear real then the player won't leave. He will wait until you stand and blast you to the nearest moon and back. Thus the whole point of useing feign death was defeated, making it next to worthless.
I'm sorry if I was a touch vitriolic in my response, I had only just woken up.
The thing is, the BH didn't actually fail their mission - they've failed if they are killed by the mark. If something like you suggest was implemented, then the mission would have to re-activate after the Jedi gets back up, otherwise it would allow them to grief smugglers by making all the effort put into the hunt a complete waste.
After reading over threads here, in the BH forum and in the Jedi forum, I think the only really viable solution would be to make FD completely useless in PVP. Keep the same functionality in PVE, but remove it from PVP. At the end of the day, Smugglers who are hunted by BHs and who, inevitably, feign will leave themselves open to blackbarring and useless armor while the BH's will be stuck with missions they cannot complete unless the sit back and camp the other player. I mean, it really isn't a very effective PVP defense, is it? PVE it's great because you get to relax, grab a beer from the fridge and stand up when your HAM bars have recharged. PVP, though - you come back with the beer only to find that you've got more wounds then .... erm.... some very wounded thing. I'm not very good with analogies.
Message Edited by ValiantHalibut on 09-18-2004 07:26 PM
TatheModek
Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:19 am
#30
Orcajum wrote:
TatheModek wrote:
I think they should make it PVE only, then theres no problem with PVP griefers and the like. When your dead your dead end of story.
You shouldn't PVP in the first place if you dont have the skills to back it up and you use FD as a crutch.
Of course this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Angila Loki
Master Smuggler/Master Pistoleer/Working on TKA
Message Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 07:53 AM
The problem i have with this is, if Feign Death is a PvE only skill, you might as well remove it entirely from the game. Why? Because the stated "end-goal" of the SWG is supposed to revolve around the Galactic Civil War. As such, a skill that is only viable in the PvE arena, has just about no effect on the GCW, and is therfore relatively worthless in the grand scheme of the overall game. It's like weaponsmiths being able to create T21s, but only able to sell them to NPC characters. What's the point?
I have to disagree not everyone who becomes a smuggler is involved in the GCW there are plenty who are neutral. As such it would be almost a neutral perk as it were. I for one could live without it. If we are honest with ourselvesits a gimp way to battle one another anyway.
If one was to think about it, what if anything do we really lose as a smuggler in PVP, not a hell of a lot, bragging rights not withstanding. As your well aware were worth less being a smuggler to begin with, I dont see either side deciding to hunt smugglers because of the faction points they may glean off the kill.
I like to think Han Solo said it best "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster." " He didn't say "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster, and the ability to feign death on a whim, yep i've read somewhere in my travels you need that as well, feign death, wouldn't leave home without it!!!
Angila Loki
IMP Smuggler
Message Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 01:34 PM
Message Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 01:35 PM
true_Kieran
Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:37 am
#31
I see a problem in that, if it breaks pvp and even makes you covert, it would be even more interesting for non-smugglers to grab that skill. First it would be a lot easier for wannabe jedis to get rid of their hunters and would be a nice way to get covert again without having to die or wait an hour. Considering the description, this skill should break PvP but then it may not be that easy to get. Everyone who ever tried might find out that playing dead isn't that easy anyway, so for me it would absolutely make sense if only the best are able to really play dead.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I also do not agree with timers in a traditional manner. All it does is encourage people to camp our bodies.
That should be a fruitless activity, as no one should just be waiting you out in that way. Either you do something to counter it, or you move on. No sitting around.
Definatly should break PvP, yet pve I think we could have room for progression of the skill. Standing up shouldn't bring a critter from over 200m away back to gnaw at my leg. The better at feigning, the better at aggro management would be my preference.
There are many interesting ways to go about having an involving feign death system with counters and uses. It's just going to take a dev with the time to discuss them.
true_Kieran
Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:43 am
#32
TatheModek wrote:
I have to disagree not everyone who becomes a smuggler is involved in the GCW there are plenty who are neutral. As such it would be almost a neutral perk as it were. I for one could live without it. If we are honest with ourselvesits a gimp way to battle one another anyway.
If one was to think about it, what if anything do we really lose as a smuggler in PVP, not a hell of a lot, bragging rights not withstanding. As your well aware were worth less being a smuggler to begin with, I dont see either side deciding to hunt smugglers because of the faction points they may glean off the kill.
I like to think Han Solo said it best "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster." " He didn't say "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster, and the ability to feign death on a whim, yep i've read somewhere in my travels you need that as well, feign death, wouldn't leave home without it!!!
Angila Loki
IMP Smuggler
Message Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 01:34 PM
Message Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 01:35 PM
That may be right now, but reading this forum for quite a while now I see threads about smugglers being hunted by BHs quite often, and sooner or later they will implement it, and from what I know of SOE, they will do it in the most stupid way possible and those of us who are still around by then will be very thankful for that skill.
Message Edited by true_Kieran on 09-18-2004 08:45 PM
Smuggler_Caylin
Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:45 am
#33
When I say break pvp I mean it should stop letting them hit us, should immediatlyremoved the irritating combat queue window and we start fresh in our attacks.
Not switch us to covert or some darn thing.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Cakins7005
Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:06 pm
#34
I think the easy way for balance is to make feign death more effective in pvp and in pvp, but move it to master. So far the vast majority of people who have feign death aren't smugglers, but template stackers in the Jedi and Bounty Hunter ranks who use it to grief each other.
Feign death is somewhat useless in most situations. If my Jedi picks up this skill then he risks being griefed even more than just losing exp. Someone can just use bleeding, disease, and fire to cause woundage that makes you have 1/1 in all stats and have over 900 battle fatigue. They can camp your body until your buffs run out and then kill you whenever you stand up.
Feign death is mainly a grief move in pvp. If you don't peace before you feign death, then you can keep your attacker in combat forever. They can't board shuttles, call pets, open crates, call vehicles, etc. This obviously needs to be changed. How can you be in combat with a dead person 
TatheModek
Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:22 pm
#35
true_Kieran wrote:
TatheModek wrote:
I have to disagree not everyone who becomes a smuggler is involved in the GCW there are plenty who are neutral. As such it would be almost a neutral perk as it were. I for one could live without it. If we are honest with ourselvesits a gimp way to battle one another anyway.
If one was to think about it, what if anything do we really lose as a smuggler in PVP, not a hell of a lot, bragging rights not withstanding. As your well aware were worth less being a smuggler to begin with, I dont see either side deciding to hunt smugglers because of the faction points they may glean off the kill.
I like to think Han Solo said it best "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster." " He didn't say "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster, and the ability to feign death on a whim, yep i've read somewhere in my travels you need that as well, feign death, wouldn't leave home without it!!!
Angila Loki
IMP Smuggler
Message Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 01:34 PM
Message Edited by TatheModek on 09-18-2004 01:35 PM
That may be right now, but reading this forum for quite a while now I see threads about smugglers being hunted by BHs quite often, and sooner or later they will implement it, and from what I know of SOE, they will do it in the most stupid way possible and those of us who are still around by then will be very thankful for that skill.
Message Edited by true_Kieran on 09-18-2004 08:45 PM
Well that would mean they would have to put content into this game, I don't see that happening anytime soon. 
Angila Loki
IMP Smuggler
true_Kieran
Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:30 pm
#36
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
When I say break pvp I mean it should stop letting them hit us, should immediatlyremoved the irritating combat queue window and we start fresh in our attacks.
Not switch us to covert or some darn thing.
Then I have to agree, it should break PvP, but still I think it's to easy to get.
true_Kieran
Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:34 pm
#37
If they put it in they way I think they will it won't be content but one more nail to the coffin by smugglers getting killed on a regular basis without a chance to escape.
TatheModek wrote:
Well that would mean they would have to put content into this game, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Angila Loki
IMP Smuggler
Magnusocc
Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:36 pm
#38
Cakins7005 wrote:
I think the easy way for balance is to make feign death more effective in pvp and in pvp, but move it to master. So far the vast majority of people who have feign death aren't smugglers, but template stackers in the Jedi and Bounty Hunter ranks who use it to grief each other.
Not everyone that has feign death is a "smuggler". They are however "rogue" or "Dirty Fighters" Lets move on.
"Move it to Master", yup thats an easy way out, and a cheap one as well. NOT everyone who (Gasp*) "Dabbles" is a griefer. This also will not fix the problem asI could be a Master Smuggler & BH 4/4/4/0. With limited skill points "Dabble" if perfectly fine, remove the skill point cap and then you might have an point.
Message Edited by Magnusocc on 09-19-2004 12:04 AM
Magnusocc
Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:41 pm
#39
Since the dirty fighting tree requires Pistol XP I do think that you should have a pistol equiped to execute FD.
There is no other special in the game based on a specific weapons xp that can be executed with another completely different weapon class equiped. This would solve a lot of problems, and with the weapons switch dealy add a little risk as well.