Smuggler Archive
Thread: PLEASE do not nerf Feign Death!!!!
burton1978
Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:33 pm
#14
Sengis wrote:
or just make it so jedi cant use it... end problem. Its our skill nto their, fo and leave it to us.
Sounds good to me.
EvilGene
Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:39 pm
#15
I cant PvP, Feign Death is my only defence after selling Faction or after trading with
someone who forgets to tell me theyr'eovert.
Nerfin is a step too far, move it to the Master's box....
Javac
Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:33 pm
#16
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
burton1978 wrote:
Sengis wrote:
or just make it so jedi cant use it... end problem. Its our skill nto their, fo and leave it to us.
Sounds good to me.
Bounty hunters also use/abuse it for their missions. Another solution needs to be found, checks and balances need to be worked out.
Not a regular on the Smuggler forums, but has a timer been suggested at all on how long you can stay down, and how often you can use it? Something like skill*10sec duration, and once every half hour? Just a thought off the top of my head. Still very useful, but not an indefinite 'escape the fight' card.
Magnusocc
Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:05 pm
#17
Well, I have to say that I don't agree with prohibiting any template that has the points available from getting this special, BH, Jedi or otherwise. I will always disagree with the "Move it to Master" answer for the same reasons.
I DO agree that it should break combat in pvp, but NOT in pve. I feel that in pve its a fair trade that when you stand up the mob is after you again. Makes sense "That guy ain't dead! GET HIM!"
I do NOT agree to a timer in any way shape or form.
I could see a meter of sorts though, for example when all your ham has recharged to full you auto stand.
And a prohibiting of executingFD until any one HAM bar is down by 50% or less. Once any HAM bar is at 50% you should then be able to execute FD. I say 50% due to the fact that High LVL mobs and lag could kill you if you were unable to execute FD until your HAM was at a lower percentage.
Smuggler_Caylin
Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:03 pm
#18
I also do not agree with timers in a traditional manner. All it does is encourage people to camp our bodies.
That should be a fruitless activity, as no one should just be waiting you out in that way. Either you do something to counter it, or you move on. No sitting around.
Definatly should break PvP, yet pve I think we could have room for progression of the skill. Standing up shouldn't bring a critter from over 200m away back to gnaw at my leg. The better at feigning, the better at aggro management would be my preference.
There are many interesting ways to go about having an involving feign death system with counters and uses. It's just going to take a dev with the time to discuss them.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
Orcajum
Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:56 pm
#19
Vyrox wrote:ok, so low level jedi are using FD to keep from being killed.....correct me if i am wrong but isnt this exactly why we have FD in the first place?KEStonewyrm- Master Smuggler
Technically this isn't correct because when FD was initially developed, there weren't any Jedi. There were no Jedi marks for BH's, there were few Templates of the Week. There wasn't really any blackbarring and griefing. As usual, none of these issues were even thought about because, once again, the brains at SOE don't honestly understand the minds of the players.
I'm willing to wager that the vast majority of abuse of FD comes from Jedi and BHs. Why? Because while death does little to anyone else in the game, the Jedi/BH mini-war actually has some real consequences. As such, they are the only ones inclined to use this skill often in their battles.
Personally I feel that Jedi have less right to complain about BHs using the skill than the other way around. As it stands now, the BH tree is primarily a ranged-weapon oriented profession. And we all know how well ranged weapons do against Jedi, right? As such, only 1/4 of the BH tree (Investigation) is effective in this stand off. For a BH to be competitive, they are forced to dedicate an additional set of skill points to a melee profession.
To balance this out, BH's should have a mod designed to "see through" Feign Death. Likewise, the FD mods in the Dirty Fighting line should effect how well a BH can see through the trick. The FD mods should then be heavily distributed towards the top of the tree, giving an advantage to dedicated "smugglers," especially with the (fingers crossed) addition of smuggler bounties being implimented.
In this manner, FD is still viable in the PvE environment as mobs don't have the ability to see trhough the FD. The FD mods could even be given different weight between PvE and PvP engagements. Low level and dabbler smugglers (non-Jedi or BH) who would be less likely to find a bounty on their heads are still capable of using the skill w/o tremendous fear. Dedicated smugglers (those likely to be hunted in the future) still retain a tactic for PvE and PvP, with potential success against BHs (mods and luck permitting).
And Jedi? Well, Jedi get hosed slightly, but as I pointed out, the current balance already favors them against BHs, who at minimum must use 164 skill ponts just to reach Investigation 3 and Dirty Fighting 1. This leaves 86 points left to create a viable character to hunt Jedi.
Magnusocc
Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:07 am
#20
lol well I wanted more attack, and I like the Dirty Fighting specails, pretty much my only and best defense is to play dead 
Eivo
Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:26 am
#21
I agree with Magnusocc on this, I absolutely LOVE my Feign Death. I use it as emergancy exit in times of need in PvE. I almost never PvP. I know there is a issue with player bounties and the ability to feign death, but honestly, I DON'T CARE. I'm not a Bounty Hunter and I'm not a Jedi. I am a Smuggler, pure and simple. But due to Non-consentual (sp?) PvP I fear that an awesome ability of mine will be taken from me. Both sides are abusing this ability so I say let bygones be bygones. So flame away all you Bounty Hunters and Jedi. Torch me good, cuase I frankly don't care about your problems, I have way too many of my own to worry about. Smuggler requires 2 combat trees yet we have next to the most pethetic combat abilities. So lets take your ability to feign death away. I'm not mashing the Bounty Hunters or the Jedi, but it is to the point that these 2 professions are forcing other professions to change to accomodate them. If that isn't a major balance issue, I don't know what is. If I come across too harsh, please shed some light on the situation, I may be misunderstanding the issue. But I really don't think I am. (Flame now)
Eivo
Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:05 am
#22
Well I really hope they got something for this. This is a nightmare right now. I heard some pretty good ideas thou. I don't think the timer or restrictions are a good idea. Like Caylin said the timer will only encurage campers (BH: "It's onlya ten minute wait, I'll get you when you stand"). And the thought of resticted times per day make my stomach turn. The detection skill seems good thou. For example, you fight a BH and feign death, the BH sees you incapped. When he goes to DB you is the chance he might notice your still alive. But if he fails, then it shows you "greyed out", he gets payment (if jedi or future smuggler visibility) however the payment is revoked or withdrawn from his account and the mission failswhen you stand again. Also the HAM bar that is the lowest at the time of feign death should appear to drop empty. This way the fight is over and the BH is none the wiser until later. Now I'm sure there are many glitches and over-sights there on my part but thats just an example. The point is that Feign Death NEEDS to appear real or any intellegent player will want and camp you.
Selko
Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:11 am
#23
gomi321 wrote:
Magnusocc wrote:
My temp has next to zero defenses, I could dabble somewhere else to get defenses, but I chose FD to be my defense.
you are one brave soul, either that or crazy
He's not the only one with no defenses, I have a big fat Zero in that category.
As to the problem at hand I think we should be able to use it as many times as we wish and for as long as we wish. That being said it needs to be raised up the tree a bit making it a stretch for dabblers to use. Not sure thats possible though without making it a master box skill.
Message Edited by Selko on 09-18-2004 02:15 AM
Vyrox
Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:47 am
#24
sorry Orcajum i will clarify what i meant. anyone using FD is using it to trick their enemy and stay alive. staying alive is what the ability is for. sorry for not elaborating
KEStonewyrm-Master Smuggler
PhoenixOrion
Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:14 am
#25
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I also do not agree with timers in a traditional manner. All it does is encourage people to camp our bodies.
That should be a fruitless activity, as no one should just be waiting you out in that way. Either you do something to counter it, or you move on. No sitting around.
Definatly should break PvP, yet pve I think we could have room for progression of the skill. Standing up shouldn't bring a critter from over 200m away back to gnaw at my leg. The better at feigning, the better at aggro management would be my preference.
There are many interesting ways to go about having an involving feign death system with counters and uses. It's just going to take a dev with the time to discuss them.
I agree fully with that! 
As for the camping of corpses, I think people should get their accounts suspended no matter WHAT the profession is of the person they are camping. Camping a Feigned Death Smuggler should be no different.
ValiantHalibut
Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:36 am
#26
Eivo wrote:Well I really hope they got something for this. This is a nightmare right now. I heard some pretty good ideas thou. I don't think the timer or restrictions are a good idea. Like Caylin said the timer will only encurage campers (BH: "It's only a ten minute wait, I'll get you when you stand"). And the thought of resticted times per day make my stomach turn. The detection skill seems good thou. For example, you fight a BH and feign death, the BH sees you incapped. When he goes to DB you is the chance he might notice your still alive. But if he fails, then it shows you "greyed out", he gets payment (if jedi or future smuggler visibility) however the payment is revoked or withdrawn from his account and the mission fails when you stand again. Also the HAM bar that is the lowest at the time of feign death should appear to drop empty. This way the fight is over and the BH is none the wiser until later. Now I'm sure there are many glitches and over-sights there on my part but thats just an example. The point is that Feign Death NEEDS to appear real or any intellegent player will want and camp you.
No way would that ever work. You think BH's complain about feign now? Imagine their reaction when they first get their mission reward, and then a moment later have it taken away because the mark stood up!
As far as making feign death appear real - people need to understand that there is a difference between what the character knows and what the player knows. This is not an RP thing - this is integral to any game. I mean, when your TKM learns a new move, can you do it in real life? Fine, so why should you know someone is FD just because you know it in real life?