Smuggler Archive
Thread: Sorosuub Personal Luxury Yacht 3000 vs. YT-1300
Zhagadska
Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:03 pm
#27
This is indeed a great gift, but I don't think the ship will be that great. Just a nice way to immediately get into flying through space.
It will probably be upgradeable, like any ship should be. But the "stock" model probably won't be as good as a "stock" model that a shipwright can make with good resources. You could spend extra cash, get the same ship from a shipwright, only the base model will have better overall stats then the freebie the devs are giving us. Meaning upgrades will be much more impactful on the better engineered version.
Most people will probably only use the gift until they can afford a better quality base model built by a professional with quality materials.
Still, a VERY nice gift indeed. Something to use until I can afford what I really want.
HabeasCorpus
Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:39 pm
#28
KJFett wrote:
There isn't going to be any YT1300s going for 20Mil. This yacht is part of the reason. The devs have already said that the yt1300 will use about the same amount of resources as a guild hall. Then factor in this 3000 as being a balance the devs are using to manage ship prices and you'll see why the yt1300 will average 300K tops (or whatever the avg price is on your server for a GH). This is one way the devs are trying to prevent insane prices on ships. They don't want ships to be costing insane prices. If anyone can get a yacht at the 6 month mark, then no one will pay hug amounts of cash for a 1300, and this will keep the prices in check.
HabeasCorpus wrote:
DRWolfe wrote:
HabeasCorpus wrote:
what makes everyone assume that this will have weapon, armor, and shield systems, or be upgradable?
Call me a cynic, I usually am and don't mind the title. but it strikes me that if they are giving EVERYONE who's been playing for 6 months (and when's the SE coming out? November probably? that pretty much assures that nearly all players who started in MAY would get one) this ship which in the EU could be comparable to the YT-1300, and they are placing the YT-1300 at master level shipwright... I just don't see how they would even attempt making this yacht more than a real yacht: something you go on to relax and flaunt, but you can't really fight on it.
If I was a dev, and I was giving someting like this away, I 'd do as little as possible to make it work. basic similar floorplan, no upgradable features, no headaches to test.
I didn't expect the Veteran's Ship to be quite to extravagant. I mean, we got goggles for the Collector's Edition (I like 'em and wear 'em, but it's not that big a deal, really). Giving this luxury yacht for the Vet Ship is great. Supposedly all ships will be customizable, with engines, shields, weapons, etc being placed in the "stock" ship to improve it. I don't see this one as being any different, so I believe it has potential. If it's a real multi-person ship like the YT1300 (walk around in and furnish it), it'll be a great Veterans Reward. That's what I'm hoping. Then, like Geevo said, that means more money for the "modules" because we won't have to buy the ship itself!
I still think that it's a big gift already. making it customizable would only make it unbalanced toward the ship crafter. here's a decent ship, priceless for carrying passengers already, and it can be combat worthy? who'd pay 20+ million for a YT-1300 when they could have a free ship?
It's the Rare=uberequation all over again. SWG breaks the equation because it makes Crafted=uber, and crafted=common as well.therefore, it can't be all THAT great of a ship. a floating cantina for parties, that's all I'm expecting.
it's going to be supply, demand, and moreoverquality. The demand will make the first master shipwright on a server very rich, and he will charge whatever he wants. do you really think that the price will be 3 cpu? because with a guild hall, you don't have to experiment to make the walls "stronger" or the guild terminal "more accurate" at keeping people's names. The architect analogy isn't going to stand up once you add in experimentation. With a ship, you're going to be dealing with a ton of subsystems that *SHOULD* (maybe not "will", I'll give you that) be laborious to perfect and cost specific resources to make well. We aren't talking about an unexperimented building here; we are assuming a fully experimented ship that didn't just take a ton of generic carbonate ore and gemstones. add in crit failure "costs" and the cost of the "time spent grinding" and I think that 20 million, while being a facetious number when I stated it, isn't so far off from the truth on some servers. There was a time when I could have paid 15 million for something, and I didn't work that hard to get that money. a few resource sales, some loot auctions, and I was pretty rich, with no work. I've done math on straight solo mission running, and you can make over 500k in three hours in a solo group on Dantooine.
what the devs want and what the game does are totally unrelated. do the devs want pistol with krayt tissue to cost 1 million while a guild hall costs 300k? do they want people to group on dantooine and farm cash solo, 27k a mission that for a double/triple elite takes all of 7 minutes to do? Do they factor in the avarice of the players who macroed to master and can gouge on a whim? I'd say the answer is no. But neither are they going to take something that is as "uber" as a master level ship and then turn round and give it away for free. The ship probably will be the CDEF of the expansion, if that. It's big point is that it will be a multi-passenger (if they keep with that line) which will provide a social aspect of space that is going to be lacking I think.
BaiGou
Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:01 pm
#29
I plan on putting a bumper sticker on my YT: My other ship is a Sorosuub.
BWAH!
KJFett
Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:04 pm
#30
HabeasCorpus wrote:
KJFett wrote:
There isn't going to be any YT1300s going for 20Mil. This yacht is part of the reason. The devs have already said that the yt1300 will use about the same amount of resources as a guild hall. Then factor in this 3000 as being a balance the devs are using to manage ship prices and you'll see why the yt1300 will average 300K tops (or whatever the avg price is on your server for a GH). This is one way the devs are trying to prevent insane prices on ships. They don't want ships to be costing insane prices. If anyone can get a yacht at the 6 month mark, then no one will pay hug amounts of cash for a 1300, and this will keep the prices in check.
HabeasCorpus wrote:
DRWolfe wrote:
HabeasCorpus wrote:
what makes everyone assume that this will have weapon, armor, and shield systems, or be upgradable?
Call me a cynic, I usually am and don't mind the title. but it strikes me that if they are giving EVERYONE who's been playing for 6 months (and when's the SE coming out? November probably? that pretty much assures that nearly all players who started in MAY would get one) this ship which in the EU could be comparable to the YT-1300, and they are placing the YT-1300 at master level shipwright... I just don't see how they would even attempt making this yacht more than a real yacht: something you go on to relax and flaunt, but you can't really fight on it.
If I was a dev, and I was giving someting like this away, I 'd do as little as possible to make it work. basic similar floorplan, no upgradable features, no headaches to test.
I didn't expect the Veteran's Ship to be quite to extravagant. I mean, we got goggles for the Collector's Edition (I like 'em and wear 'em, but it's not that big a deal, really). Giving this luxury yacht for the Vet Ship is great. Supposedly all ships will be customizable, with engines, shields, weapons, etc being placed in the "stock" ship to improve it. I don't see this one as being any different, so I believe it has potential. If it's a real multi-person ship like the YT1300 (walk around in and furnish it), it'll be a great Veterans Reward. That's what I'm hoping. Then, like Geevo said, that means more money for the "modules" because we won't have to buy the ship itself!
I still think that it's a big gift already. making it customizable would only make it unbalanced toward the ship crafter. here's a decent ship, priceless for carrying passengers already, and it can be combat worthy? who'd pay 20+ million for a YT-1300 when they could have a free ship?
It's the Rare=uberequation all over again. SWG breaks the equation because it makes Crafted=uber, and crafted=common as well.therefore, it can't be all THAT great of a ship. a floating cantina for parties, that's all I'm expecting.
it's going to be supply, demand, and moreoverquality. The demand will make the first master shipwright on a server very rich, and he will charge whatever he wants. do you really think that the price will be 3 cpu? because with a guild hall, you don't have to experiment to make the walls "stronger" or the guild terminal "more accurate" at keeping people's names. The architect analogy isn't going to stand up once you add in experimentation. With a ship, you're going to be dealing with a ton of subsystems that *SHOULD* (maybe not "will", I'll give you that) be laborious to perfect and cost specific resources to make well. We aren't talking about an unexperimented building here; we are assuming a fully experimented ship that didn't just take a ton of generic carbonate ore and gemstones. add in crit failure "costs" and the cost of the "time spent grinding" and I think that 20 million, while being a facetious number when I stated it, isn't so far off from the truth on some servers. There was a time when I could have paid 15 million for something, and I didn't work that hard to get that money. a few resource sales, some loot auctions, and I was pretty rich, with no work. I've done math on straight solo mission running, and you can make over 500k in three hours in a solo group on Dantooine.
what the devs want and what the game does are totally unrelated. do the devs want pistol with krayt tissue to cost 1 million while a guild hall costs 300k? do they want people to group on dantooine and farm cash solo, 27k a mission that for a double/triple elite takes all of 7 minutes to do? Do they factor in the avarice of the players who macroed to master and can gouge on a whim? I'd say the answer is no. But neither are they going to take something that is as "uber" as a master level ship and then turn round and give it away for free. The ship probably will be the CDEF of the expansion, if that. It's big point is that it will be a multi-passenger (if they keep with that line) which will provide a social aspect of space that is going to be lacking I think.
You are thinking of all this in the context of the game right now. You forget that the revamp is coming. Your solo groups bring in large cash won't be there. Holo grinding will be sooner gone so your resource sales will drop because not as many people will need them. Sure supply and demand affects the economy, but when the money you are bringing in goes from 500K/3hrs to 100K/3hrs, and no one can afford the ships at that cost, they will have to lower the price because if they don't, we will all be cruising in our 3000s laughing at the newb that spent 20mil on a 1300 that I just waxed out of space. And yes, they can have the best ship in the game, but it dont mean crap if they can't pilot with the stick.
chameleoncav
Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:22 pm
#31
Bear in mind, different ships will have different abilities, some will be better than others but hopefully they will balance out.
Anyone who has played "Team Fortress" will know what i mean.
Heavy weapons guy= huge armament and armour, but very slow speed and agility.
Scout= Light armour and weapons but very fast, wouldnt stand a chance in a straight fight against the HWG but can easily outrun him.
Both have advantages and disadvantages but suit different styles of play.
Hopefully the ships will be the same.
Cav Chameleon.
Ternque01
Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:29 pm
#32
I don't know about you guys, but I can pull a million in a set of buffs easily. Some guy I know slices the terminals at improved job market cities and can make near 2 million in a set of buffs. The regular payout for janta/mokk missions in improved job market cities is 31-32k. After you slice the terminals that ends up being 47k ish for the missions. To complete the mission, all that you have to do is destroy thier statue or firepit. They can't heal the lair.
I can do two missions very quickly too. That's big f'ing cash. The figure of 500k/3hrs is a little off.
HabeasCorpus
Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:49 pm
#33
Ternque01 wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I can pull a million in a set of buffs easily. Some guy I know slices the terminals at improved job market cities and can make near 2 million in a set of buffs. The regular payout for janta/mokk missions in improved job market cities is 31-32k. After you slice the terminals that ends up being 47k ish for the missions. To complete the mission, all that you have to do is destroy thier statue or firepit. They can't heal the lair.
I can do two missions very quickly too. That's big f'ing cash. The figure of 500k/3hrs is a little off.
That just goes to further my point.
Also, the revamp is coming, true. In what will probably be 2 months. if I can pull 500k a day for 2 months... that's plenty of a hoard, plus the things I'm mining and the loot I'm selling.
20 million is a bit off, no contest on that. 10 million, maybe for impatient people if it's a quality ship. but to think 3 cpu for a ship is a little naive, really. I'd say 30 cpu would be more reasonable, so 3 million for a ship.
I just don't see how a free ship could have all the perks of a crafted ship (upgrades). It's got the biggest perk as it is: passenger carrying. I'm thrilled about that certainly. but I don't think they will add upgradeablility to the Yacht, unless they want to piss off a bunch of shipwrights.
Then again, the devs in this game really don't think logically about anything.
WedgeStarkiller
Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:59 pm
#34
I for one am hoping that the PNY will be a viable ship to play regularly. The star wars fan in me gets freaked at the idea of everyone flying around in an ancient YT-1300. In A New Hope the other character's first reactions to seeing the Falcon were negative at best. Its only because of the heavy modifications that Han and Chewie made to it, plus years of jurry rigging things that it was a powerful vehicle. Making that the ship of choice for this time period would be like making the Ford Model-A the best car available in a simulation of the 1950's.
The PNY being multiperson does mean that the devs will have to balance its abilities against the player made YT-1300's. From what Holocron himself wrote in the New Essential Guide to Vechiles and Vessels it looks like Lando managed to make it a competant all around travel, combat and smuggling ship with very advanced communication and scanning gear. It would certainly not be the better option than a tricked out YT-1300, but as am Imperial I would love to use this ship as my normal travel and mission vessel unless I'm doing faction missions in which case some form of Tie will be perferred.
One question I do have is whether any certification is going to be needed for it? To fly everything besides the newbie ship was supposed to require pilot skill boxes, is the PNY excepted from that list?
Trioth
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:06 pm
#35
From what I'm guessing, I think vets get the sorosuub instead of the basic starter ship
Xeranx
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:36 pm
#36
Ternque01 wrote:
I dunno know about you guys and gals, but that Yacht looks like 10 bottles smooth on the Colt 45 rating scale.
I could take a Twi'lek up there and sweet talk her up in space.. ohhhh!!!!! ...gettin' goose bumps thinking about it.
Had to mention Colt 45 didn't you?
Xeranx
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:40 pm
#37
KJFett wrote:
There isn't going to be any YT1300s going for 20Mil. This yacht is part of the reason. The devs have already said that the yt1300 will use about the same amount of resources as a guild hall. Then factor in this 3000 as being a balance the devs are using to manage ship prices and you'll see why the yt1300 will average 300K tops (or whatever the avg price is on your server for a GH). This is one way the devs are trying to prevent insane prices on ships. They don't want ships to be costing insane prices. If anyone can get a yacht at the 6 month mark, then no one will pay hug amounts of cash for a 1300, and this will keep the prices in check.
That's exactly what I'm hoping for. I'm seriously hoping the yacht is upgradeable too then I can actually focus my money on upgrades rather than spend 2 mil on a ship.
Bamsee
Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:59 pm
#38
All I am really hoping for with this ship model is that when it is released it come with a retractable dual laser gun (not cannons) so we can enjoy the experience right away of gunner combat in a ship. While giving this ship a slightly better survivablity in combat. Hopefully though this ship can't be as highly modified as the YT-1300. Afterall, not every ship could handle every type of mod out there simply due to the shape, weight, and power useage of some gear. Depending how long it takes the first 30% of the Shipwrights to make master level then this ship will be the main tank/workhorse for combat for the first month or so after launch while fighters are support/meatshields for the larger ships.
Comyn
Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:17 am
#39
I think (hope) the main thing is it will be much better than the alternative starting ship. Definitely a way to save some creds in the beginning for us vets... I thinkJtLS will bring on new levels of inflation to SWG! lol
-C