Smuggler Archive
Thread: Issue Spreadsheet for Dec. '04.
TheWok wrote:
My question is who spends 5-10 million on a weapon?
Kelko wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Kelko wrote:
Molecular clamps and Flow Analyzer Nodes are able to be used by a novice to the same effect as a Master. There should be certifications for their use.
I agree with this, However I think this should be expanded upon. Seeing as a novice smuggler can slice containers and without clamps or analyzers this is random, a novice could quite possibly go through 20+ containers and faill every one. At 5-6K a container that can get pretty expensive for a novice and take them quite some time to move up to the next slicing level. Maybe add something different for novices that has better odds without the use of clamps or analyzers but still has some challenge.
This would also work in well with the issue of making the consequences of slicing or possesing contraband more severe, as people would be less likely to posses sliced/contraband. In any other profession the XP goes up as the level goes up, for Smuggler however it is 250XP regardless of what we are slicing but we can't slice certain things until we get a certain level of slicing, this in itself should constitute a higher XP return for the slicing. In any case this is just my observations and thoughts from a struggling Smuggleron some of the issues.
I'll leave the clamp/fan thing as is I think. Certifications do not mean we are gating a novice out of everything but the primary concern is them getting molecular clamps. Most of us acknowledge certifications need to be placed here, how that is going to be done I will leave to the developers at least as far as this document goes.
You raise an excellent point though with slicing experience growth. I haven't even started to think about that, very good idea.
On the previous issue on groups/slicing for them I think I'll add a new category instead of trying to fit it in there as was my original intention.
I agree with clamps and analyzers need to be by certification. My point was that in doing this we pretty much make it so that it will become much more difficult and time consuming to move up to the next level of slicing as any novice would have to slice without these and be at the mercy of the odds. If the novice should happen to hit a bad streak they could quite possibly go through 20 or more slices and fail every one. I did my own little test once and failed 13 outof 20slices without clamps or analyzers.
Seeing as currently the only thing a novice can slice is containers, this can get very expensive and time consumingfor a novice (if they buy the containers) and even more time consuming if they just slice what they loot. That is why I stated that maybe at novice there should be a different slicing capability other than containers that has better odds without the use of clamps or analyzers. This way they can slice and will still fail some but not be forever trying to get to the next level. I'm not saying that a novice should be able to rocket up to level4 slicing in a week, but it shouldnt take them months to move up tolevel 2 either. I just wanted to stress that we should not forget where we all came from (novice) and that we need to make sure we are taking into account all levels of the Smuggler profession when we are looking at these changes we want. Just my thoughts.
That is why I think Slicing terminals should be novice& slicing containers should be slice 1.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Geevo wrote:
That is why I think Slicing terminals should be novice& slicing containers should be slice 1.
kgmkiorys wrote:20 : The abilities that allow Smugglers to purchase faction from recruitors or Sell Out to them are tedious as far as their mechanics.I don't know if you include this in the mechanics of the tedious abilities, but i'd like to see somewhere that being a colonel should not be a prerequisite to be a Fixer. We already have to make our way through the grind, no need to grind out FP once we want to make a living.This is to me different from the other point (which is true too) you expose by saying there is no content in underworld for neutrals.Otherwise teh document is perfect, as always with your work Caylin
That's an issue with the GCW, not an issue with smugglers. Anyone can delegate faction, the only difference is that we can turn 10k credits into 125 faction points. Honestly, if it weren't for the restrictions and penalties on delegating faction at lower ranks, I don't think there'd be as much need for smugglers to sell faction since groups would just all go out killing opposing npcs then delegate the faction to one person in the group. That /delegate penalty is what's keeping us in business at all.
Oh, and you don't have to be a colonel... you just have to charge more if you aren't. And yes, they will often pay your higher prices.
Kelko wrote:
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Kelko wrote:
Molecular clamps and Flow Analyzer Nodes are able to be used by a novice to the same effect as a Master. There should be certifications for their use.
I agree with this, However I think this should be expanded upon. Seeing as a novice smuggler can slice containers and without clamps or analyzers this is random, a novice could quite possibly go through 20+ containers and faill every one. At 5-6K a container that can get pretty expensive for a novice and take them quite some time to move up to the next slicing level. Maybe add something different for novices that has better odds without the use of clamps or analyzers but still has some challenge.
This would also work in well with the issue of making the consequences of slicing or possesing contraband more severe, as people would be less likely to posses sliced/contraband. In any other profession the XP goes up as the level goes up, for Smuggler however it is 250XP regardless of what we are slicing but we can't slice certain things until we get a certain level of slicing, this in itself should constitute a higher XP return for the slicing. In any case this is just my observations and thoughts from a struggling Smuggleron some of the issues.
I'll leave the clamp/fan thing as is I think. Certifications do not mean we are gating a novice out of everything but the primary concern is them getting molecular clamps. Most of us acknowledge certifications need to be placed here, how that is going to be done I will leave to the developers at least as far as this document goes.
You raise an excellent point though with slicing experience growth. I haven't even started to think about that, very good idea.
On the previous issue on groups/slicing for them I think I'll add a new category instead of trying to fit it in there as was my original intention.
I agree with clamps and analyzers need to be by certification. My point was that in doing this we pretty much make it so that it will become much more difficult and time consuming to move up to the next level of slicing as any novice would have to slice without these and be at the mercy of the odds. If the novice should happen to hit a bad streak they could quite possibly go through 20 or more slices and fail every one. I did my own little test once and failed 13 outof 20slices without clamps or analyzers.
Seeing as currently the only thing a novice can slice is containers, this can get very expensive and time consumingfor a novice (if they buy the containers) and even more time consuming if they just slice what they loot. That is why I stated that maybe at novice there should be a different slicing capability other than containers that has better odds without the use of clamps or analyzers. This way they can slice and will still fail some but not be forever trying to get to the next level. I'm not saying that a novice should be able to rocket up to level4 slicing in a week, but it shouldnt take them months to move up tolevel 2 either. I just wanted to stress that we should not forget where we all came from (novice) and that we need to make sure we are taking into account all levels of the Smuggler profession when we are looking at these changes we want. Just my thoughts.
In the same vein as you mention remembering our Novice roots, many of us who were here at the beginning also remember doing this grind without the clamps. No one sold them then, since there were few Master Smugglers, and those that were MS were smart enough not to sell the clamps to their competition. It wasn't until the economy boomed and merchants began dealing in contracts with various crafting professions that moley clamps became readily available.
I remember using multiple FAN's on my slices (the 75% is cumulative so the more you apply, the closer you get to 99%) to make it less random. I think that method works just fine for novice's, a lot of us did it then, everyoen else can do it now. Give the FAN's at novice and your concerns should be cleared up.
bad286th wrote:
"Feign Death is being used in PVP to prevent conclusions to many PVP encounters"
I understand this sentence, but what are you proposing be changed? I thought the intent of FD was to conclude the 'encounter' in favor of the 'Feign Deathee'. To say it will 'prevent conclusions' is to present an argument fromone side only. Are you proposing that FD be unavailable in PVP?
I don't have a problem with any solution in particular, I just want to understand where this is heading in the way of changing FD.
As it stands the issue is never finished. Bounty hunters are using it to keep their jedi missions when they should have died. Jedi are using it to prevent death from bounty hunters, we have people laying around GCW battle fields getting black barred and more...
When the skill is used they aren't told 'Hey, he's dead. Try again tomorrow man.' No conclusion to the encounter is reached and that is an issue that needs to be resolved. How it is resolved is in the hands of the developers and is not the purpose of this sheet.
CorellianCowboy wrote:
kgmkiorys wrote:
20 : The abilities that allow Smugglers to purchase faction from recruitors or Sell Out to them are tedious as far as their mechanics.
I don't know if you include this in the mechanics of the tedious abilities, but i'd like to see somewhere that being a colonel should not be a prerequisite to be a Fixer. We already have to make our way through the grind, no need to grind out FP once we want to make a living.
This is to me different from the other point (which is true too) you expose by saying there is no content in underworld for neutrals.
Otherwise teh document is perfect, as always with your work Caylin
That's an issue with the GCW, not an issue with smugglers. Anyone can delegate faction, the only difference is that we can turn 10k credits into 125 faction points. Honestly, if it weren't for the restrictions and penalties on delegating faction at lower ranks, I don't think there'd be as much need for smugglers to sell faction since groups would just all go out killing opposing npcs then delegate the faction to one person in the group. That /delegate penalty is what's keeping us in business at all.
Oh, and you don't have to be a colonel... you just have to charge more if you aren't. And yes, they will often pay your higher prices.
Sure, but to buy it you have to bein the faction, and to delegate it, as you mentionned you have to be a colonel (well at least lieutenent-colonel) not to suffer large losses. The Fixer ability, as i see it should be a neutral thing, just needing to sign up in a faction to perform your skill, then resign and if he day after you want to do the same with the opposite faction, then go for it. That would actually be smugglish. I like to pvp so i don't really mind being an imperial, but it hurts my smuggler spirit.
Now that would work, gives FAN's at novice and that would be great, the novice can craft them so he can make what he needs, and he would still be able to effectively and it wouldn't take them months to get to level 1 slicing. I would even go so far as to say make Clamps a level 2 cert since that is where you pick up the intermediate weapon slicing skill. Anyway just some ideas.
JediArashi wrote:
In the same vein as you mention remembering our Novice roots, many of us who were here at the beginning also remember doing this grind without the clamps. No one sold them then, since there were few Master Smugglers, and those that were MS were smart enough not to sell the clamps to their competition. It wasn't until the economy boomed and merchants began dealing in contracts with various crafting professions that moley clamps became readily available.
I remember using multiple FAN's on my slices (the 75% is cumulative so the more you apply, the closer you get to 99%) to make it less random. I think that method works just fine for novice's, a lot of us did it then, everyoen else can do it now. Give the FAN's at novice and your concerns should be cleared up.
Great work as always Caylin. I to owould have made it printer friendly as you have, and from someone who works with spreadsheets everyday at work, I think it is pretty clean.
-Arashi
Bloodfin