Smuggler Archive
Thread: Are smugglers really thieves with no honor?
Rockynick wrote:
All the responses to this thread have certaintly answered my original question. The majority of the smuggler community is indeed as i thought thieves, bullies, and arrogant thugs.
I don't really see the point to that part of your response, other than to inflame things even more. If you want to start a flame war, that's cool. There's an incredibly tight nit 'majority' here, ready to jump down your throat.
I've yet to see any justification behind your posts regarding things like changes to the doctor profession warranting a hike in prices. Tell me, are people who sell loot kit items for 2 million credits also thugs, bullies and thieves?
By the way, you should perhaps consult a dictionary. A thief is someone who takes away from somebody without permission, thus denying the victim of property. Someone who offers a service - no matter the cost - is not a thief. The provider states a price. If you accept and pay, there is no thievery.
It is becoming apparent that you simply just want to complain about smugglers in general. That's fine, but there's not much point in doing it here, as I doubt you'll get much sympathy.
Ipseck wrote:
4) EVERYONE has raised their prices over the last 6 months. You used to be able to get a fwg5 for 6k credits. You used to be able to buy a full suit of composite for under 200k. You used to be able to get buffs for 10k or less. You used to be able to buy skill tapes for under 1 mill. How are we supposed to 'keep up with the jones' and afford equipment if we don't also raise our prices?
Rockynick, if you wanted a sensible answer to your original question, this is it. Smugglers are just like any other player. We must also buy the same things you do. In order to afford this, we must either:
a) follow suit to ensure our income allows us to buy things as proces for ALL other services rise
b) do mission grinding all day like pure combat classes
c) not bother, keep prices the same, and not be able to afford things
I'll just say again, my first point:
YOU CAME TO ME.
I'm not asking for your business. You don't like my price, my face or even my name, fine. Go someplace else. It bothers me not a jot.
I charge 5k per slice and in my first hour as a Master I made over 100k without trying, asking or spamming.
I've had maybe 2 or 3 grumbles about price, but I explain the situation and people either accept it and pay or decide to shop around.
What I find the height of arrogance is to think that someone who has set a price on their service is trying to screw you when, in relation to what you'll happily pay for other things, you're paying a pittance. Especially, when, as I said before...
YOU CAME TO ME.
You don't like a price for something, do what everyone else does with every other service, shop around.
If you don't like the price, don't pay it. No one's forcing you get a weapon or your armour sliced.
The ONLY reason why a price goes up or down is because of people's willingness to pay. If people are willing to pay 5, 10 or even 50k per slice/buff or whatever, then people will charge it. If not, then the price will come down because there is no business out there.
I won't pay more than about 12-13k for a buff. I don't complain about a doc charging that much, I just don't buy from them. It's nothing personal and it's not a problem.
It gets personal when you accuse players of certain attitudes.
It's a game. Play nice.
Rockynick wrote:
To try and explain a possible reason for many smugglers raising prices: a recent change with publish 10 - combined with the constant ignorance of our profession by the developers - has lead to our slicing abilities becoming more tedious, as well as increasing the amount of time needed to slice an object. many of us may feel that our time and pain is worth more, many may feel that slicing is simply undervalued and should be brought in-line with current insanity. And many still may yet simply feel that the customers should feel the pain inflicted upon us by the system and it's creators.
Thisis the response i was referring to. It was unfair of me to to refer to it on my response to you. Please forgive me. However it does seem to be a common feeling that The majority of smugglers harbor. This is like saying that i signed up for a profession that i thought i would like but now i'm gonna complain about the job requirments.
Where do you get this stuff from, I pay to play this game, I don't pay to have "pain and suffering". If SOE do something that causes me "pain and suffering" while providing a service to the comunity (on my paid for gaming time) then I think I have every right for compensation. If you don't like it, maybe you'd better compain to SOE about the changes they made.
Then this statement proves the point even more. I believe that you have missed a vital factor. A service is something that is offered at a price. The public has the option to pay or not. You have made this point. I am glad you getting tons of customers.
All the responses to this thread have certaintly answered my original question. The majority of the smuggler community is indeed as i thought thieves, bullies, and arrogant thugs.
You must be having a hard time in the current state of the economy outside the game, huh? You haven't seen prices rising outside your front door there? Services that used to cost X have gone up Y%? It's called inflation and/or Supply and Demand.
As time wears along in SWG, things change. People change. Things get patched. Things get better. Back in the day, 100 credits per % increase was deemed acceptable. Nobody complained. The problem is, people got complacent. They didn't see slicing as "a big deal".
But it is most definately "a big deal". Do you PvP? Do you PvE? Then slicing is, to be honest, a way of life. It doesn't have to be, but then again, with the current gas prices, you don't HAVE to drive to work either. You could bike, take the bus, or walk. But do you? I don't. I drive, even with gas prices soaring. Why? Convenience. It is more convenient for me to drive myself to work, making it possible for me to go when I want, leave when I want, listen to my music, etc. I don't have that convenience on the bus, for example. But I pay for that convenience.
Slicing is the same. You do not HAVE to have your equipment sliced. You don't, I swear to God, I have an alt that has no sliced equipment, and the CSRs haven't come to ban me for not using sliced equipment. Sure, it takes me a few more shots to blow a lair, or kill a gnort. So what? I don't think it's worth it for that character to carry sliced equipment. The alt is a crafter and carries a rifle for protection; keep their heads down while I run.
So, time wore on. Armour got better. Weapons got better. Krayt pearls began to sell for millions. So did holocrons. And Composite armour. Better resources were found, harvested and sold. People realised that a set of buffs and decent kinetic ubese armour could net them buttloads of credits in a matter of hours on Dantooine. Crafters began to realise that credits were beginning to rise in the pockets of players. Prices of goods rose accordingly. And still they rise. A high qualitySEA selling for 2 million? Rug adhesive selling for a million? A complete rug selling for 5 million?This isn't seen as "haywire", it is seen as the norm.
So everyone has their sources of income, crafters, fighters, etc. But where do Smugglers fall? We certainly aren't pure crafters. And unless we take up another Elite profession, we most definately are not fighters. We can pull, what is it, max level 25 missions? Whoop-de-doo. We have three forms of income: Selling Faction, which doesn't happen everyday, but is profitable, selling Spice and Slicing. Now, I see you complaining about Slicing prices, but I don't see you bitching about Spice prices. Why? Either A) You don't use it or B) You are happy that the price has FALLEN on most servers for a crate of Muon or Pixie. Again, supply and demand. Supply of Spice rose and demand fell when the Chefs got their revamp. I don't deny that Chefs needed a revamp. However, their revamp blew one of my three money making ventures right out of the water. Glug glug.
So we arrive at slicing. We sat, and we watched, as comp armour prices rose. We sat, and we watched, as Geo Stun Pistols became all the rage, and weapon prices also began to sky rocket.
Some of us stopped slicing for the public. Some of us stopped slicing altogether. Others stayed the course. Others raised their prices to get more in line with the current economy.
Have you looked for Master Smugglers lately? We are a rare and dying breed. Most of us don't even wear our tags anymore.
Now this last statement by you:
thieves, bullies, and arrogant thugs
Now this last statement by you: I am not a thief. You give me your equipment, I slice it, you pay me, I give it back. That is what is known in the real world as a "financial transaction". The same thing happens when you buy a set of comp from an armoursmith or vendor. If we are thieves, then ALL CRAFTERS in SWG who charge for their products are thieves.
Bullies: I don't FORCE you into paying my price. You ask, I tell you. This is my cost. You then have a binary process to make: 1) I will pay this person to render this service (See above, Financial Transaction) or 0) I think this price is too high and will look elsewhere. Again, I don't run around behind you harrassing and "bullying" you into paying my price. You either pay it or you don't. Show me the bullying??
Thugs: See Thief, except Thugs usually use more force when they steal from you. That would be like me running up, grabbing the gun out of your hand, punching you in the face and running away. I have never done this in game. Some Mummer's tried it on me once, though.
Arrogant. OK, I don't argue this one much, but arrogant has a bit of a negative connotation to it. I think "Confident" would bea much more appropriate word. Arrogance makes me think that "I am the only person in the world who can do this, look at me, I am beautiful", which simply isn't true. No, Smugglers are a confident bunch. If we weren't, we wouldn't bother with people like you.
Have a nice day.
Rockynick wrote:You all have proven my point so well. Where as i didn't intend to be hostile originally some of you pointed out that my initial statement was inflamitory. I have learned a lesson or two. The first lesson is to be more careful with the subject lines. The second is that i was correct about my feelings of the majority of the people in your profession. Thanks for reading my post.
lol
You are correct because you pissed us off buddy. Of course we're going to be an ass to you, you're one to us.
Rockynick wrote:
Can anyone explain you're rising costs? Can anyone explain what has caused smuggler prices to go up other than greed?
Rocky, you need to stop typing for a second and *read* what about 38 people have already told you. Due to recent changes, slicing now takes approximately 3x as long as before. Time == Money, therefore our costs have gone up, and we're passing them on to the customer in the form of credits. In addition to this, the additional hassle has driven many slicers out of the market completely. Couple this with the reduced number of new slicers entering the market, and this results inlowering supply without a decrease in demand, which also raises prices.
Simply put:
1) More Time == Higher Cost
2) Fewer Suppliers == Higher Cost
All that aside, you don't seem to have a clear view of business ethics. Are we somehow price-gouging you? The market hasn't developed any special need to warrant that, and there's no monopoly of suppliers to coordinate gouging anyway. Is this some kind of bait-and-switch scheme? Nope, the product hasn't changed. Elevating prices due to market-driven economics isn't ethical or unethical.
-Zz