Smuggler Archive
Thread: Are smugglers really thieves with no honor?
korvass
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:03 am
#14
To Rockynick's last post..
I'd just like to thank you for making an ass out of u and me...
Message Edited by korvass on 09-15-2004 05:08 AM
rogue_eight
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:27 am
#15
I have to say that I agree with everything said here about the pricing of things.
I'm a Master now on infinity, and I charge 5k per slice ( send me a /tell in game Ondal - it'd be nice to talk with another master!)
Considering cost of AUKs, WUKs, etc plus the hassle of single-pulling, that's what I think I'm worth. It's not greed, there are some on my server that charge 10k, so I could easily charge that if I wanted to.
Most of my customers (funnily enough wookiees more than anyone else...) think 5k is a bargain. I could easily charge more if I want, but I'm not greedy, so I haven't.
To the people who complain about the price, let me say this:
1) You came to me.
I'm not spamming for business, you're asking me for a service. I have a price, you pay it or you don't. No skin off my bantha.
2) I'm a Master of my profession. M-A-S-T-E-R. That means I'm the best you can find. I set my own price.
So don't tell me that your alternate/old character/mother/brother/best friend's sister is a Master Smuggler and they slice for love.
Each progression up the profession is different, so even if you're telling the truth, this is what I think is a fair price considering the work I put into getting the skills, and what my time is now worth.
3) Just try and think back to how you've played in the past.
Ever sold a container on the bazaar for 6k rather than just giving it to a Novice smuggler to slice for free to get xp?
Ever refused to pay a Smuggler with slicing 3 or a Slicer for a slice because you think 2k is too much, or that they don't know what they're doing?
It's called karma. What goes around, comes around. And trust me, we do remember those who helped us on the way up the ladder.
Be nice to me and I'll be nice to you. It's not unknown for me to give out cheap slices or bulk discounts. Roleplay with me, enjoy the game and don't hassle me and you might be surprised by the results.
4) Are you a profession that sells a service? If you are, imagine if someone came to you/your vendor and complained that your prices were too high. What would your response be?
5) And just to finish with an old favourite:
You'll try and haggle with me, but do you haggle for your buff?
Slicing is not a priviledge. It is, in gameplay terms, an 'illegal' service to improve your weapon/armour. The rewards of a good slice are huge, as has already been said.
As for the randomness of slicing and the whole flat-rate thing, as far as I'm concerned, I will not be held to ransom over price because of a facet of the game that I cannot control.
If we could control it, then sure, I'd review my prices, but we can't. And to be honest, if I could control it, then as a Master my results would be generally better than they average as random, so my price would probably go up...
Sorry if this seems like a rant, but when Smugglers seem to be uniformly the best, if not ONLY role-playing sector of the game, it ticks me off that we are treated like some sort of npc slice terminal.
I slice because I enjoy the good roleplay interaction. I can make more money doing something else, but it's nowhere near as much fun hunting on your own as it is hanging about in shady alleys on Coruscant slicing.
Some people expect Slicing to be some sort of free game upgrade, when we actually provide one of the most powerful services in the game.
So we should be paid accordingly.
I'm a Master now on infinity, and I charge 5k per slice ( send me a /tell in game Ondal - it'd be nice to talk with another master!)
Considering cost of AUKs, WUKs, etc plus the hassle of single-pulling, that's what I think I'm worth. It's not greed, there are some on my server that charge 10k, so I could easily charge that if I wanted to.
Most of my customers (funnily enough wookiees more than anyone else...) think 5k is a bargain. I could easily charge more if I want, but I'm not greedy, so I haven't.
To the people who complain about the price, let me say this:
1) You came to me.
I'm not spamming for business, you're asking me for a service. I have a price, you pay it or you don't. No skin off my bantha.
2) I'm a Master of my profession. M-A-S-T-E-R. That means I'm the best you can find. I set my own price.
So don't tell me that your alternate/old character/mother/brother/best friend's sister is a Master Smuggler and they slice for love.
Each progression up the profession is different, so even if you're telling the truth, this is what I think is a fair price considering the work I put into getting the skills, and what my time is now worth.
3) Just try and think back to how you've played in the past.
Ever sold a container on the bazaar for 6k rather than just giving it to a Novice smuggler to slice for free to get xp?
Ever refused to pay a Smuggler with slicing 3 or a Slicer for a slice because you think 2k is too much, or that they don't know what they're doing?
It's called karma. What goes around, comes around. And trust me, we do remember those who helped us on the way up the ladder.
Be nice to me and I'll be nice to you. It's not unknown for me to give out cheap slices or bulk discounts. Roleplay with me, enjoy the game and don't hassle me and you might be surprised by the results.
4) Are you a profession that sells a service? If you are, imagine if someone came to you/your vendor and complained that your prices were too high. What would your response be?
5) And just to finish with an old favourite:
You'll try and haggle with me, but do you haggle for your buff?
Slicing is not a priviledge. It is, in gameplay terms, an 'illegal' service to improve your weapon/armour. The rewards of a good slice are huge, as has already been said.
As for the randomness of slicing and the whole flat-rate thing, as far as I'm concerned, I will not be held to ransom over price because of a facet of the game that I cannot control.
If we could control it, then sure, I'd review my prices, but we can't. And to be honest, if I could control it, then as a Master my results would be generally better than they average as random, so my price would probably go up...
Sorry if this seems like a rant, but when Smugglers seem to be uniformly the best, if not ONLY role-playing sector of the game, it ticks me off that we are treated like some sort of npc slice terminal.
I slice because I enjoy the good roleplay interaction. I can make more money doing something else, but it's nowhere near as much fun hunting on your own as it is hanging about in shady alleys on Coruscant slicing.
Some people expect Slicing to be some sort of free game upgrade, when we actually provide one of the most powerful services in the game.
So we should be paid accordingly.
korvass
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:34 am
#16
I am a member of the majority.
To answer your question, how many smugglers have you personally dealt with in order to make such wide sweeping remarks?
What change to the game has there been to warrant prices of buffs, resources and loot going from a few thousand to millions? It is inherent to a population-controlled economy. Prices will just go up, without proper or adequate explanation as to why they should.
To try and explain a possible reason for many smugglers raising prices: a recent change with publish 10 - combined with the constant ignorance of our profession by the developers - has lead to our slicing abilities becoming more tedious, as well as increasing the amount of time needed to slice an object. many of us may feel that our time and pain is worth more, many may feel that slicing is simply undervalued and should be brought in-line with current insanity. And many still may yet simply feel that the customers should feel the pain inflicted upon us by the system and it's creators.
Your question should perhaps be: "What do I think slicing is worth?" Then simply find a smuggler who will pay what you feel the service is worth. Bear in mind that slicing is supposedly a highly illegal service (generally meaning high prices in most cultures that have illegal activity). The fact that the game system does not punish adequately for this illegality has lead to the common belief that slicing is simply something that all people have a basic right to.
If you went away and dealt with 50 smugglers on your server, I think you would change your opinion, as in my (and probably many others) experience it has been that smugglers are in the majority, honourable individuals.
korvass
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:38 am
#17
Rockynick, I think another reason you are getting hostile or unhelpful responses is because we smugglers are - after perhaps 2 years of being promised an impending revamp - sick and tired of having to justify our existence and our services to anyone. Imagine playing the profession you really wanted to play ever since watching the movies, only to find it was largely worthless or that it even didn't do what the title proclaimed (remember, we smugglers cannot smuggle without having to make our own content). Now imagine being promised a revamp in amonth or so by every new developer or community whoever for two years. you can then perhaps understand some of our bitterness, and unwillingness to justify anything we do 
Undergrid
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:40 am
#18
Rockynick wrote:If you will read my post a bit more carefully you will see that I did not tar the entire community. I only tarred the majority of the community. I have yet to see something that would change my view.
So, you take the views (that you think are bad) of a minority and apply them to the majority of smugglers, yet the views of another minority of smugglers (the minority that have taken the time to try and explain things to you) can't be applied to the majority? Sounds a little two faced to me.It's a simple question. Why have the prices been raised? What has happened to the community that has made this occur. One response on this thread says that he price of inorganics has gone up. That is about the best answer your community collectevly has come up with. I dont believe that it is a viable answer but at least it stuck to the theme.
And I gave you two simple answers, and others have as well. So far:
1) Maybe we should have been charging more from the start.
2) I charge what my time is worth, if I feel I need to charge more so be it.
3) Prices for buffs have gone up, prices for armor, weapons and food are (in some cases) rediculous. Prices for the resources we need to make the tools we use to upgrade your weapons may have (on some servers) gone up.
4) An apparently large number of smugglers have given up slicing publicly, so the rest of us are more busy.
5) We now have to pull tools from crates manually and manage the extra inventory space required.
Theres 5 reasons, who are you to say any one is invalid. Do you complain to your plumber or mechanic that his per hour charge is too much? Would you seriously expect to get a discount if you did?Did the smugglers from all the galaxies come together on this board and decide to enmasse raise prices?
Do you have an toon on each galaxy? Have you done an accurate survey of all smugglers? What you've seen is increased prices of a few smugglers in game and the comments of the few that post to this forum. Have prices really been put up by the majority of smugglers? I'd doubt itOr has the phnomenom just been a progression of greed?
Greed makes the world go round. Are some Doc's greedy? Yes, I've seen some advertising buffs at 50k when their the only docs in coronet and everyone is looking for buffs. How many people have you seen selling loot kit parts for 40k, adhesives for millions? I've just paid out 5.9million to get the parts to make three DE10's, all those parts are looted and cost the seller nothing, isn't that greed?Docs get higher prices for their profession due to real revamps that have actually raised they're costs significantly. Smugglers have yet to date had any kind of revamp. After looking at this forum I've seen it is in the works. Due to the current state of smugglers today i'm extremley fearful of this majorities' greed once your revamp does go into place.
The Smuggler revamp has been "in the works" for months, and keeps getting pushed back. You seriously don't want to go into that if you want to survive in this forum.
So, Docs get to raise their prices when their revamp happened because what they could do was better, and you don't have an objection. Yet if we were to raise our prices after a revamp you'd be back in here crying about it? How very two faced.
Bottom line friend, you dont have to get a slice, its a nice bonus. If you want one you pay less then a docs buff for a bonus thats permanent and doesn't wear off after 3 hours. Think about that the next time your waiting in the docs queue.
Message Edited by Undergrid on 09-15-2004 01:53 PM
TheSmokey
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:52 am
#19
Hey, have you gone over to the ID board and complained that a stat migration now costs round about 10k? A feature that was once FREE, now costs you 10k; you talk about us inflating prices. Better get over there and ask why they are so greedy as well
Rockynick wrote:
If you will read my post a bit more carefully you will see that I did not tar the entire community. I only tarred the majority of the community. I have yet to see something that would change my view.
It's a simple question. Why have the prices been raised? What has happened to the community that has made this occur. One response on this thread says that he price of inorganics has gone up. That is about the best answer your community collectevly has come up with. I dont believe that it is a viable answer but at least it stuck to the theme. Did the smugglers from all the galaxies come together on this board and decide to enmasse raise prices? Or has the phnomenom just been a progression of greed? Docs get higher prices for their profession due to real revamps that have actually raised they're costs significantly. Smugglers have yet to date had any kind of revamp. After looking at this forum I've seen it is in the works. Due to the current state of smugglers today i'm extremley fearful of this majorities' greed once your revamp does go into place.
Message Edited by TheSmokey on 09-15-2004 08:52 AM
Rockynick
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:52 am
#20
So, Docs get to raise their prices when their revamp happened because what they could do was better, and you don't have an objection. Yet if we were to raise our prices after a revamp you'd be back in here crying about it? How very two faced.
Wrong.Idon't cry about doc buffs being higeher. As i said before, thier revamp warrants a rise in price. No revamp for you guys therefore, no reason for a rise in price other arrogance and greed. When your revamp comes through and causes your profession to incurr extra costs other than pain and suffering then I would agree to a rise in price for services. I'm sure this will happen. My concern is that the current amount of arogance and greed will make the prices after revamp "insane".
korvass
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:55 am
#21
Rockynick wrote:
So, Docs get to raise their prices when their revamp happened because what they could do was better, and you don't have an objection. Yet if we were to raise our prices after a revamp you'd be back in here crying about it? How very two faced.
Wrong.Idon't cry about doc buffs being higeher. As i said before, thier revamp warrants a rise in price. No revamp for you guys therefore, no reason for a rise in price other arrogance and greed. When your revamp comes through and causes your profession to incurr extra costs other than pain and suffering then I would agree to a rise in price for services. I'm sure this will happen. My concern is that the current amount of arogance and greed will make the prices after revamp "insane".
I don't understand. What change to the Doc profession was there that warranted price hikes and Village camping?
Undergrid
Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:57 am
#22
Rockynick wrote:So, Docs get to raise their prices when their revamp happened because what they could do was better, and you don't have an objection. Yet if we were to raise our prices after a revamp you'd be back in here crying about it? How very two faced.Wrong.Idon't cry about doc buffs being higeher. As i said before, thier revamp warrants a rise in price. No revamp for you guys therefore, no reason for a rise in price other arrogance and greed. When your revamp comes through and causes your profession to incurr extra costs other than pain and suffering then I would agree to a rise in price for services. I'm sure this will happen. My concern is that the current amount of arogance and greed will make the prices after revamp "insane".
You still havn't answered my question yet, which of the five reasons I gave you above on its own is not a sufficient reason for me to increase my charge if I want? I could charge 50k a slice, and while I may not get much business it is my right to charge what I want.
Just under 800 slices in the past two weeks (the majority without any advertising) indicates to me that my prices are acceptable to the majority of people.
Edit: Another point.. you said:
When your revamp comes through and causes your profession to incurr extra costs other than pain and suffering then I would agree..
Where do you get this stuff from, I pay to play this game, I don't pay to have "pain and suffering". If SOE do something that causes me "pain and suffering" while providing a service to the comunity (on my paid for gaming time) then I think I have every right for compensation. If you don't like it, maybe you'd better compain to SOE about the changes they made.
Message Edited by Undergrid on 09-15-2004 02:00 PM
TheSmokey
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:11 am
#23
Rockynick wrote:
So, Docs get to raise their prices when their revamp happened because what they could do was better, and you don't have an objection. Yet if we were to raise our prices after a revamp you'd be back in here crying about it? How very two faced.
Wrong.Idon't cry about doc buffs being higeher. As i said before, thier revamp warrants a rise in price. No revamp for you guys therefore, no reason for a rise in price other arrogance and greed. When your revamp comes through and causes your profession to incurr extra costs other than pain and suffering then I would agree to a rise in price for services. I'm sure this will happen. My concern is that the current amount of arogance and greed will make the prices after revamp "insane".
What did the Docs get in any major publish that justifies the higher cost? Here's what I've found:
Pub 9.3:
- Added point blank area poison & disease cures for Doctors
- Added new Doctor Disease & Poison Resistance Buffs.
(be very careful here, we were promised a spice that would do th poison resist, so tread carefully)
March 23rd Update:
- Doctor: Fixed the use command on the Fire Blanket.
- Doctor: Fire Blanket now usable from the hotkey bar.
Droid Invasion:
- Medicines: Fixed a problem with the power of cure dot medicines not being displayed
I may have missed something, but where is this big doctor revamp you speak of? I sure as hell can't find it.
DigiDante
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:35 am
#24
Rockynick wrote:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Squishklown wroteI now slice for friends and knowns only. To all others, my rates are high enough to say " I really dont need to steal your armor, I am 'stealing' your credits....LOL!"-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Point in case. An honorless thief. Just one response that prove my thoughts that the majority of this community is a bunch of common brigands. This thread has nothing to do with what another proffesion does. It has to do with the moral fiber of the people that make up the community. Can anyone explain you're rising costs? Can anyone explain what has caused smuggler prices to go up other than greed?
Why do I charge so much?
No, it isn't greed. I charge my prices ( 10k a slice or higher ) due to the fact of retards like you.
If you're to cheap to pay for my service, go right ahead to someone else. I didn't care to spend my time working for you if you cannot truely respect what I do. I do not need your money, I can make more money in an hour by missions then I could in two hours of slicing.
Another reason why I charge so much... to piss people like you off.
Another reason why I charge so much... because people like you cannot quote.
Another reason why I charge so much... because I make my prices, not my customers.
Message Edited by DigiDante on 09-15-2004 06:40 AM
Rockynick
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:55 am
#25
To try and explain a possible reason for many smugglers raising prices: a recent change with publish 10 - combined with the constant ignorance of our profession by the developers - has lead to our slicing abilities becoming more tedious, as well as increasing the amount of time needed to slice an object. many of us may feel that our time and pain is worth more, many may feel that slicing is simply undervalued and should be brought in-line with current insanity. And many still may yet simply feel that the customers should feel the pain inflicted upon us by the system and it's creators.
Thisis the response i was referring to. It was unfair of me to to refer to it on my response to you. Please forgive me. However it does seem to be a common feeling that The majority of smugglers harbor. This is like saying that i signed up for a profession that i thought i would like but now i'm gonna complain about the job requirments.
Where do you get this stuff from, I pay to play this game, I don't pay to have "pain and suffering". If SOE do something that causes me "pain and suffering" while providing a service to the comunity (on my paid for gaming time) then I think I have every right for compensation. If you don't like it, maybe you'd better compain to SOE about the changes they made.
Then this statement proves the point even more. I believe that you have missed a vital factor. A service is something that is offered at a price. The public has the option to pay or not. You have made this point. I am glad you getting tons of customers.
All the responses to this thread have certaintly answered my original question. The majority of the smuggler community is indeed as i thought thieves, bullies, and arrogant thugs.
Ipseck
Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:04 am
#26
Rockynick wrote:---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Squishklown wroteI now slice for friends and knowns only. To all others, my rates are high enough to say " I really dont need to steal your armor, I am 'stealing' your credits....LOL!"-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Point in case. An honorless thief. Just one response that prove my thoughts that the majority of this community is a bunch of common brigands. This thread has nothing to do with what another proffesion does. It has to do with the moral fiber of the people that make up the community. Can anyone explain you're rising costs? Can anyone explain what has caused smuggler prices to go up other than greed?
Tell you what.. Poke your head into the kauri forums and ask the folks there what my 'moral fiber' is and if they trust me or not. Then I'll do the same for your server.
but let me save you some time... from kauri you'll get responses like "oh ya, he sliced my ris", "he sliced my exceptional weapons", and "ya I paid him 12 mill up front for a huge faction purchase without even thinking about it".
I have a feeling the replies to my thread will be "who the hell is that?".
Don't come in here with this nonsense.
1) you have no ground to stand on in this community - you've never even posted here before
2) you have little-no ground to stand in any other forum community - you haven't posted enough to build any kind of reputation
3) you're spouting off at the mouth about something you know absolutley nothing about
4) EVERYONE has raised their prices over the last 6 months. You used to be able to get a fwg5 for 6k credits. You used to be able to buy a full suit of composite for under 200k. You used to be able to get buffs for 10k or less. You used to be able to buy skill tapes for under 1 mill. How are we supposed to 'keep up with the jones' and afford equipment if we don't also raise our prices?
If you were truely serious about your line of questioning, you would have worded it differently, not come in here call us honorless thieves. Your post would have looked more like "Why have slice prices gone up? Just curious." instead of that inflamatory bullcrap that you did post.
Message Edited by Ipseck on 09-15-2004 07:08 AM