Smuggler Archive
Thread: Last Ditch question from a Jedi
dubiousmastax wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Popcorn, anyone? Or pie perhaps?
lol I'm actually finding this quite amusing =) I know you guys see me as mr. snobby jedi, trying to spoil your party, but really I'm just a guy who was curious about some things I know nothing about. The stigma around the word jedi is pretty heavy, but thats your problem not mine (and by 'yours' I mean those who are not me, so not necessarily you mr. popcorn =)
the original question was not loaded or sinister or hiding nerfs behind its back
Hehe, you are a Jedi from Bria. What is not to trust about you?
Seriously, Last Ditch is a reaaaally cool move to just have fun with. I will spill the beans about it. Imagine a move that is soooo cooool, yet soooo chancy that the only time you'd use is to just have fun. That is Last Ditch. The move has got balls, ovaries, etc.... and to be honest I put alot of value in the move, thinking that I'll nail any sonofabitch who tries to mess with me with it.
Rarely do I use it though. I'm usually too busy using evasive maneuvers like Disarming Shot, healing, or scarfing burstrun food to even think about mashing the button for Last Ditch 
LD is on the very end of my toolbar, just for comfort, if I am every truly on the end of the proverbial line!
dubiousmastax wrote:
Lotherd wrote:
dubiousmastax wrote:
I've never been hit with this bad boy, but I have a quick question.
For smugglers, is this considered a heavy offensive attack that is your big climax, i.e. icing on the cake...or is it truly a last ditch effort to survive and escape?
If it is a last ditch effort (as the name suggests) would it be appropriate to have a long cooldown on all moves after using it (like not being able to attack for 10 seconds)
Do you guys hate to use it, or ache to use it?
I have a question for you, and I ask this as politely as I can possibly do:
What does being a Jedi have to do with your question?
I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but I see no reason why we had to know you were a Jedi. Be proud of your accomplishment, absolutely. I would be too. But why did you have to tell us about this? Were you hoping that everyone would just jump on the thread and answer your question right away? Did you think that you'd get a better response than if you were not a Jedi? I could understand if your question related to you or Jedis, but it doesn't.
I apologize for the fact that you're getting the blunt end of my frustration, but I returned to the game a little over a week ago. In that time frame, 90% of the Jedi I've met have either been extreme show-offs, jerks, childish or snobs. I'm glowy myself at the moment, but because the only side I've seen of the Jedi community has been horrible, I do not want to become one myself.
If I missed something, I truly am sorry. But I just don't get it.
Actually it was meant to show that I am not a smuggler and was therefore seeking information that I cannot get firsthand. no worries though, it seems rude is par for the course here. you fit right in.
We're not rude. We're cynical and a bit jaded, mostly because every time we have a combat special that actually works, Jedi whine and cry until it's nerfed down to a shadow of it's former self.
I think the problem is that you didn't just come in here asking a question, you asked a question andthen offered an idea to "fix" one of our only working specials by adding a cooldown timer where we couldn't use any attacks after using Last Ditch. If you were so unknowing of how the special worked, why were you even bringing that up? To many of us, it was like "Oh boy, here we go again!" That's the only part of your post that I took issue with.
dubiousmastax wrote:
AngusMacGregor wrote:
Not this again... do you Jedi just love to come here and start crap with Smugglers?
Leave our specials alone. Nothing to see here. Move along. Nothing to nerf here.
It's working just fine, and working as intended. No changes are necessary. Go back and tell your Jedi friends.
since when is educating myself starting crap? better to get it from the horse's mouth no?
I was trying to be diplomatic, but I'm starting to see your true colors. You've only been paying attention to the posts you consider "rude".
I now believe you came here knowing exactly what you were doing. You think you're smart because you think you've posted in a way that hides your motives, but you haven't.
First of all, you haven't been hit with it, have never used it, probably know nothing about it, but somehow you're just curious about it. Well guess what, I'm calling BS on that. Why? Because you sat around egging on the answers. Because there is STILL A STICKY IN THIS FORUM THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION!!!
So for one last time, then I hope you'll leave. LD does a great amount of damage. The only time it is usable by a Smuggler though is usually when he belongs to a large group since he/she is more than likely to go incap from it's use. Why? Because damage is based on how much health you have. If you have a lot of health, it does crap. So you're already down, about to die, so you break out your LAST DITCH effort. What happens now? You either hit for a couple thousand damage, or you miss, get blocked,or more often than not, get incapped before you can use it. You can try and use it as an opener like some of your cohorts think is done, but that would be stupid because it drops all HAM bars to near nothing and will do minimal damage when you're at full health.
This attack is exactly what it says. It's a Last Ditch. It' is not exploitable, but it can decide the outcome of a battle. That outcome is usually a Smuggler dying though.
dubiousmastax wrote:
I've never been hit with this bad boy, but I have a quick question.
For smugglers, is this considered a heavy offensive attack that is your big climax, i.e. icing on the cake...or is it truly a last ditch effort to survive and escape?
If it is a last ditch effort (as the name suggests) would it be appropriate to have a long cooldown on all moves after using it (like not being able to attack for 10 seconds)
Do you guys hate to use it, or ache to use it?
Ok I'll bite. I've never fought a jedi before. I've heard stories of jedi healing is better than a master doctor's healing ability.
How much does it heal? If it heals a lot would it be appropriate to have a long cooldown on all moves after using it (like not being able to attack for 10 seconds)
Do you guys have to use it, or would you rather use something else?
If I said that in the jedi forums would I get flamed? Should I expect to see jedi coming out of the woodwork to defend an ability of theirs that works? Jedi complain they don't do enough damage...yet they heal very very well. I've watched em shrug off Combat medic dotting bounty hunters and another bounty hunter at the same time and live due to their healing ability. Yet they complain when it takes 5 bounty hunters to kill them...you jedi are not GODS. Jedi are supposed to be only 1.5x stronger than a normal profession...that means if 2 bounty hunters are unable to kill you then jedi need nerfed not the templates bounty hunters have to use to kill you in packs of 2 or more. Jedi is supposed to be hard especially if you gain visibility...thats how the devs plan on keeping jedi numbers down. But every phase of the village the numbers keep going up. GCW was designed, balanced and tested for non jedi. Yet Jedi slaughter anyone that dares to go special forces to pad FRS standings...why run or hide when ya can just kill em. After all they're just "mundanes" right?
Here is my version of a fix instead of nerfing to oblivion. Jedi's main problem right now is they feel they have to group with other jedi or padawan to level. I personally have no problem with that. Jedi should be able to group or kill their own kind as much as they like without gaining visibility. Thats the jedi civil war is it not? Jedi vs Dark Jedi. Talk the devs into forcing you into a higher pvp tier than special forces once you become knights...and give padawans the option of on leave or that higher pvp tier. That way jedi can't gank mundanes unless the mundanes choose to go to that higher tier as well. Otherwise us mundanes can enjoy our little mundane only GCW while jedi fight their jedi civil war. With that set up you'll have a much easier time staying off the terminals...how hard is it to equip a weapon? No visibility, no bh hunting you, problem solved.
But if you do show off or are spotted by mundanes while hunting, thenevery bounty hunter on the server should be able to hunt you down. But once you have been killed and cloned all bounties on you by any other bounty hunters will fail...for that day. Then the next day a repeat of that depending on how much visibility you have left to work off with deaths or time not playing as a jedi. You do get that extra account after all. Have maybe some jedi friendly area like the village or some other place to have a terminal to see how much visibility you have left on the terminals to work off. Better yet hire a smuggler to do it for you by slicing the terminals...that way you need not risk even leaving your house. Thats a complex problem solved in my opinion. Whether the devs,jedi, and bounty hunters will like it is a different story but at least its a solution without asking for every ability that can kill you to be nerfed....like jedi have been doing.
But back to the main topic. Most Smuggler abilities don't work our only attack actually debuffs our defense by 80. Feign death has like a 50% chance that it might work...if it fails we're on our back...a free knockdown for ya when we're nearly dead anyway. Panic shot at one time was a delay attack that worked quite well...the first delay attack. But because damage didn't break the delay it was nerfed to break on damage as well as given a long reuse timer...so inorder to use it ya had use panic and /peace to keep the autoattack from breaking the delay...so then it was useless. Now riflemen have startle shot that has a delay effect similar to how panic shot worked after it was nerfed but without the long reuse timer, yet panic's description says it delays the target for a brief period of time...yet it debuffs attack speed by a measly 10 points...15 at master smuggler. Low blow used to be a ranged knockdown we loved it...now its an attack speed debuff useful only against players really and even then the best we could hope for is to reduce the targets speed down to the weapons normal premodified speed. Concussion shot is the only real useful smuggler ability i use all the time when i hunt but that too will be changed because its supposed to be a mez instead of a root. My snare, restricting shot, is pretty handy too...no reason it should be nerfed but knowing the devs they're thinking about it...I've heard a rumor about it once already...it should stay a rumor.
How many patches, entire publishes even,have been dedicated to jedi? How long have the devs promissed us a revamp? The first attention we have gotten that haven't been nerfs, was the "Combat Upgrade". We are a bitter profession and very very protective of what few abilities that we do have that work. That happens when you've been beaten by the nerfstick too much and haven't been fed much. But as a Jedi you wouldn't understand...you think you have it bad and complain about the risk that gives you the power you have. You want the power that comes with jedi but you don't want to be hunted by everyone that hate you for showing off and making them only be able to hunt you...unless you allow us to hunt others....by keeping hidden and not killing us mundanes every time you see us ready to attack rebel or imp mundanes. I'm sure the visibility penalty would be less to run from mundanes rather than kill them...and you do have cloak as well as force run at your disposal.
Last ditch to answer your question, even at master smuggler at best maybe a 60% chance of hitting. Most of the time when i've attempted to use it I get an extraordinary number of misses. And it really hurts when it misses because no matter what your ham bars were before firing it, it will be next to nothing afterwards...often incapping you(the smuggler being incapped)...and not touching the target. If it is used too soon any player could shrug it off if they have any healing ability. But if timed when almost incapped anyway well it can be deadly and pack a punch. Both the smuggler and the target could both easily get incapped from such a maneuver...or the smuggler might get lucky and walk over and deathblow the target first. Its very risky and as all jedi know the higher the risk the higher the power. Thats the reasoning behind all high level loot drops from elite mobs as well as the reasoning behind jedi. But if you had thought to use the search ability of the forum...or clicked back a page or so there already was a jedi that askedabout how to get around the danger of this ability. We treated him with respect because he didn't ask it with a "fix" to nerf us more than we already are. But obviously your lazy in that regard or the search button isn't working...wouldn't be the first time. Don't use your knockdown attack first. Instead wait until the bounty hunter/smuggler is close to dead, knock him down and then hit em again while he's down if that doesn't kill him. If the bounty hunter/smuggler doesn't use last ditch when nearly dead then the attack,if it hits, will be easily healed. Ask us nicely, without trying to promote some more nerfs you jedi have thought up, and we'll treat you with as much respect you show us. Disrespect us, expect to get set on fire by the lynch mob carrying all the torches.
Message Edited by Graxul on 06-10-2005 11:30 AM
dubiousmastax wrote:
AngusMacGregor wrote:
dubiousmastax wrote:
AngusMacGregor wrote:
Not this again... do you Jedi just love to come here and start crap with Smugglers?Leave our specials alone. Nothing to see here. Move along. Nothing to nerf here.It's working just fine, and working as intended. No changes are necessary. Go back and tell your Jedi friends.
since when is educating myself starting crap? better to get it from the horse's mouth no?
Because it's always the same with these posts from Jedi. First they try to act innocent "Hey, just asking a question.", then they start talking about how it's overpowered and unfair (usually they're ignorant of how the move really works), or they'll try to suggest ways to "fix" it as if it were broken, then the next thing you know, they're on the Jedi forums saying how Smugglers need to be nerfed.If that's not your intent, fine. But since you already started talking about how to "fix" it (cooldown timer idea) I kinda doubt it.
lol if theyre ignorant about how it works then by all means educate them.
If a Jedi wanders into this forum and asks about a special that may concern him and gets jumped all over hes gonna think "wow they really really dont want it changed, it MUST be uber!!"
you'd be surprised how much grief a little bit of patience and education would save you.
Just in case you wander back, I'll say this:
Education is, yes, great at saving us trouble. That's why there is a Sticky at the top of this board titled "Have a Question/Concern/Idea about Last Ditch? Read This!". It's been there for over a month and answers every question you posed, including mentioning that You can only use Last Ditch once every five minutes or so. You'd also know that there's no *point* to a long cooldown, because it reduces all your HAM to zero, and it's going to be several seconds before you regen enough to do anything anyway(Even spiced, it takes a while to regen), assuming you don't incap yourself outright when you attempt it.
Patience is all well and good, but with all due respect to someone posting reasonably about this, reading what information we have already provided would save you a lot of grief, too.
dubiousmastax wrote:
Lotherd wrote:
dubiousmastax wrote:
I've never been hit with this bad boy, but I have a quick question.
For smugglers, is this considered a heavy offensive attack that is your big climax, i.e. icing on the cake...or is it truly a last ditch effort to survive and escape?
If it is a last ditch effort (as the name suggests) would it be appropriate to have a long cooldown on all moves after using it (like not being able to attack for 10 seconds)
Do you guys hate to use it, or ache to use it?
I have a question for you, and I ask this as politely as I can possibly do:
What does being a Jedi have to do with your question?
I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but I see no reason why we had to know you were a Jedi. Be proud of your accomplishment, absolutely. I would be too. But why did you have to tell us about this? Were you hoping that everyone would just jump on the thread and answer your question right away? Did you think that you'd get a better response than if you were not a Jedi? I could understand if your question related to you or Jedis, but it doesn't.
I apologize for the fact that you're getting the blunt end of my frustration, but I returned to the game a little over a week ago. In that time frame, 90% of the Jedi I've met have either been extreme show-offs, jerks, childish or snobs. I'm glowy myself at the moment, but because the only side I've seen of the Jedi community has been horrible, I do not want to become one myself.
If I missed something, I truly am sorry. But I just don't get it.
Actually it was meant to show that I am not a smuggler and was therefore seeking information that I cannot get firsthand. no worries though, it seems rude is par for the course here. you fit right in.
Graxul wrote:
dubiousmastax wrote:
I've never been hit with this bad boy, but I have a quick question.
For smugglers, is this considered a heavy offensive attack that is your big climax, i.e. icing on the cake...or is it truly a last ditch effort to survive and escape?
If it is a last ditch effort (as the name suggests) would it be appropriate to have a long cooldown on all moves after using it (like not being able to attack for 10 seconds)
Do you guys hate to use it, or ache to use it?
Ok I'll bite. I've never fought a jedi before. I've heard stories of jedi healing is better than a master doctor's healing ability.
How much does it heal? If it heals a lot would it be appropriate to have a long cooldown on all moves after using it (like not being able to attack for 10 seconds)
Do you guys have to use it, or would you rather use something else?
If I said that in the jedi forums would I get flamed? Should I expect to see jedi coming out of the woodwork to defend an ability of theirs that works? Jedi complain they don't do enough damage...yet they heal very very well. I've watched em shrug off Combat medic dotting bounty hunters and another bounty hunter at the same time and live due to their healing ability. Yet they complain when it takes 5 bounty hunters to kill them...you jedi are not GODS. Jedi are supposed to be only 1.5x stronger than a normal profession...that means if 2 bounty hunters are unable to kill you then jedi need nerfed not the templates bounty hunters have to use to kill you in packs of 2 or more. Jedi is supposed to be hard especially if you gain visibility...thats how the devs plan on keeping jedi numbers down. But every phase of the village the numbers keep going up. GCW was designed, balanced and tested for non jedi. Yet Jedi slaughter anyone that dares to go special forces to pad FRS standings...why run or hide when ya can just kill em. After all they're just "mundanes" right?
Here is my version of a fix instead of nerfing to oblivion. Jedi's main problem right now is they feel they have to group with other jedi or padawan to level. I personally have no problem with that. Jedi should be able to group or kill their own kind as much as they like without gaining visibility. Thats the jedi civil war is it not? Jedi vs Dark Jedi. Talk the devs into forcing you into a higher pvp tier than special forces once you become knights...and give padawans the option of on leave or that higher pvp tier. That way jedi can't gank mundanes unless the mundanes choose to go to that higher tier as well. Otherwise us mundanes can enjoy our little mundane only GCW while jedi fight their jedi civil war. With that set up you'll have a much easier time staying off the terminals...how hard is it to equip a weapon? No visibility, no bh hunting you, problem solved.
But if you do show off or are spotted by mundanes while hunting, thenevery bounty hunter on the server should be able to hunt you down. But once you have been killed and cloned all bounties on you by any other bounty hunters will fail...for that day. Then the next day a repeat of that depending on how much visibility you have left to work off with deaths or time not playing as a jedi. You do get that extra account after all. Have maybe some jedi friendly area like the village or some other place to have a terminal to see how much visibility you have left on the terminals to work off. Better yet hire a smuggler to do it for you by slicing the terminals...that way you need not risk even leaving your house. Thats a complex problem solved in my opinion. Whether the devs,jedi, and bounty hunters will like it is a different story but at least its a solution without asking for every ability that can kill you to be nerfed....like jedi have been doing.
But back to the main topic. Most Smuggler abilities don't work our only attack actually debuffs our defense by 80. Feign death has like a 50% chance that it might work...if it fails we're on our back...a free knockdown for ya when we're nearly dead anyway. Panic shot at one time was a delay attack that worked quite well...the first delay attack. But because damage didn't break the delay it was nerfed to break on damage as well as given a long reuse timer...so inorder to use it ya had use panic and /peace to keep the autoattack from breaking the delay...so then it was useless. Now riflemen have startle shot that has a delay effect similar to how panic shot worked after it was nerfed but without the long reuse timer, yet panic's description says it delays the target for a brief period of time...yet it debuffs attack speed by a measly 10 points...15 at master smuggler. Low blow used to be a ranged knockdown we loved it...now its an attack speed debuff useful only against players really and even then the best we could hope for is to reduce the targets speed down to the weapons normal premodified speed. Concussion shot is the only real useful smuggler ability i use all the time when i hunt but that too will be changed because its supposed to be a mez instead of a root. My snare, restricting shot, is pretty handy too...no reason it should be nerfed but knowing the devs they're thinking about it...I've heard a rumor about it once already...it should stay a rumor.
How many patches, entire publishes even,have been dedicated to jedi? How long have the devs promissed us a revamp? The first attention we have gotten that haven't been nerfs, was the "Combat Upgrade". We are a bitter profession and very very protective of what few abilities that we do have that work. That happens when you've been beaten by the nerfstick too much and haven't been fed much. But as a Jedi you wouldn't understand...you think you have it bad and complain about the risk that gives you the power you have. You want the power that comes with jedi but you don't want to be hunted by everyone that hate you for showing off and making them only be able to hunt you...unless you allow us to hunt others....by keeping hidden and not killing us mundanes every time you see us ready to attack rebel or imp mundanes. I'm sure the visibility penalty would be less to run from mundanes rather than kill them...and you do have cloak as well as force run at your disposal.
Last ditch to answer your question, even at master smuggler at best maybe a 60% chance of hitting. Most of the time when i've attempted to use it I get an extraordinary number of misses. And it really hurts when it misses because no matter what your ham bars were before firing it, it will be next to nothing afterwards...often incapping you(the smuggler being incapped)...and not touching the target. If it is used too soon any player could shrug it off if they have any healing ability. But if timed when almost incapped anyway well it can be deadly and pack a punch. Both the smuggler and the target could both easily get incapped from such a maneuver...or the smuggler might get lucky and walk over and deathblow the target first. Its very risky and as all jedi know the higher the risk the higher the power. Thats the reasoning behind all high level loot drops from elite mobs as well as the reasoning behind jedi. But if you had thought to use the search ability of the forum...or clicked back a page or so there already was a jedi that askedabout how to get around the danger of this ability. We treated him with respect because he didn't ask it with a "fix" to nerf us more than we already are. But obviously your lazy in that regard or the search button isn't working...wouldn't be the first time. Don't use your knockdown attack first. Instead wait until the bounty hunter/smuggler is close to dead, knock him down and then hit em again while he's down if that doesn't kill him. If the bounty hunter/smuggler doesn't use last ditch when nearly dead then the attack,if it hits, will be easily healed. Ask us nicely, without trying to promote some more nerfs you jedi have thought up, and we'll treat you with as much respect you show us. Disrespect us, expect to get set on fire by the lynch mob carrying all the torches.
Message Edited by Graxul on 06-10-2005 11:30 AM
word. And the author's question has been answered, time for this thread's demise.
Katalepsis wrote:
word. And the author's question has been answered, time for this thread's demise.
/disagree
Yes the question has been answered, but it was answered before it was posted
*points to the sticky post re last ditch*
I think the only civilised thing to do is use this post to vent about jedi!
i'm not jedi hatin here but i think we all need to vent our frustrations from time to time!
Ok.
So there I am half-naked and covered in Olive Oil. And then the bothan says "Cucumber?"
oh... you've heard this one already?
dubiousmastax wrote:
I've never been hit with this bad boy, but I have a quick question.
For smugglers, is this considered a heavy offensive attack that is your big climax, i.e. icing on the cake...or is it truly a last ditch effort to survive and escape?
If it is a last ditch effort (as the name suggests) would it be appropriate to have a long cooldown on all moves after using it (like not being able to attack for 10 seconds)
Do you guys hate to use it, or ache to use it?
I'd have to say it truely is a LAST DITCH for me, I use it to stay alive but it has a chance of incaping even the user!
been there my friend... more times than i care to count...
Saarek wrote:
Ok.
So there I am half-naked and covered in Olive Oil. And then the bothan says "Cucumber?"
oh... you've heard this one already?
Anaalin wrote:
Sure, most people can't beat a jedi one on one, but show me where that happened in the movies? And jedi have no effect on anything else in the game. A jedi has no effect on whether or not someone else can defeat a kryat dragon.