Smuggler Archive
Thread: Smugglers and PC BHs
HOTDOG
Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:24 am
#27
I just replied in the concept thread but I will here too.
The problem is NOT PvP vs PvE related because you have to go to the EXTREME to get to a level 5 deadbeat. Even if you wanted to just keep getting spice you could go to level 4. Succeed in a mission bringing you back to level 3. Fail and go back to level 4 rinse and repeat.
So why don't we stay away from the PvP and PvE argument. It's not a winnable one.
The problem is NOT are we strong enough to face a PC BH because:
- We shouldn't be able to face a BH with just Smuggler skills alone
- Our focus should be on having an arsenal to escape a BH.
The problem IS exploitation ability.
It would be too easy for a Smuggler to fail a level 5 mission by keeping the cargo and allowing a PC BH to kill him and then they both split the pot.
Now I want to say again, and anyone who has followed my posts knows this- I WANT aPC BH to have a contract on me.
But until we can solve the exploitation problem I will be DAMN HAPPY to take this system as it is.
Vrond
Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:45 am
#28
I guess the bottom line is I want them but I have some things I wanted added to them.
- Only get player bounties for failing a mission. If the Mission works out then no Players hunt us.
- We get to slice the BH term if we fail our bounty goes up if not we get off the term. We have to have a chance to fail based on the level of bounty on us the higher it is the harder it is to remove.
EnderUK
Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:32 am
#29
Does any Bounty Hunter really want to hunt me when I get my combat template back up 
Having experinced being a bounty hunter all I can says is that smugglers will do exactly the same as what Jedi do. They will sit in aprivate cantina or house. They'll only go out when they are buffed and only if they have a good combat template.
I'd like PC bounties in someways but if they don't do it right then they'll get worst than what it is with Jedi. You'll not see smugglers out of their homesand if they have to sit in their homes I can't see why they would want to continue being a smuggler.
If you're killed by a PC bounty hunter than all negative bonuses should be wiped to avoid clone camping. Then the question occurs why stay alive if a bounty hunter attack if you're not going to lose anything? You need some insentive to stay alive if a bounty hunter attacks you other than some form of Jedi xp debt which leads to cantina afking. We're not going to be able to out run them with thier terrian negation skills.
Ragnaat
Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:01 am
#30
Listen, I totally understand that one can work a smuggler tempalte to be a very forimidable force against a BH of any template, Hell, we might even see something like 0004 smugglers (or 4000) being the best of the best in terms of the new smuggling missions / anti-bh template
that's not where my problem lies. that's not where my problem with the profession has lied for ages.
My problem is in the fact that pre-CU a master smuggler can't take out jack. And even with some changes and special fixes I don't see that changing drastically post-CU. There are a ton of smuggler template out there, from merchant to artans to shipwright that make "sense" in a smuggler lore standpoint but just simply whould be shut out of X% of smuggler content because that player chose not to "stack" their template with other related or unrelated combat skills. Then there are also pratcial additions like novice WS/AS so we can craft all our tools ourselves.
The same goes for Underworld as it is now - if you chose not to be in the GCW you're shut out.
If we're getting a revamp I want to see as much of that stopped as possible - or to put it another way - I think a master smuggler - simply by virture of being master smuggler - should have access to all smuggling activities.
that's not where my problem lies. that's not where my problem with the profession has lied for ages.
My problem is in the fact that pre-CU a master smuggler can't take out jack. And even with some changes and special fixes I don't see that changing drastically post-CU. There are a ton of smuggler template out there, from merchant to artans to shipwright that make "sense" in a smuggler lore standpoint but just simply whould be shut out of X% of smuggler content because that player chose not to "stack" their template with other related or unrelated combat skills. Then there are also pratcial additions like novice WS/AS so we can craft all our tools ourselves.
The same goes for Underworld as it is now - if you chose not to be in the GCW you're shut out.
If we're getting a revamp I want to see as much of that stopped as possible - or to put it another way - I think a master smuggler - simply by virture of being master smuggler - should have access to all smuggling activities.
Vrond
Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:18 am
#31
Yeah a combat Smuggler will have alot of other ways to fight a BH but a Master Smuggler artisan will be very vulnerable. And the Artisans/Smuggler should be able to have full access to all the content.
BUT the Smuggler tree is going to change dramatically as its written now. Who is to say the BH tree is not? Persoanlly I never agreed with the "BH is ranged" arguements. Who knows what the prereq for BH will be post curb? Maybe why this is the reason that skill point transfers will be allowed post curb. Maybe a BH will be required to be a Master of ANY weapon and not just a Master Marksman.
SpinningCloud
Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:24 am
#32
Evasion should be our weapon against BHs, not dueling.
Evasion type skills can come in many forms;
1. Our criminal faction points can give us advanced warning of BHs that have taken out a contract on us...and their location through the chase,
2. Skills to foil tracking droids...like decoy droids perhaps?
3. BH term slicing skills that cause our names to appear unreliably on BH terms. Look once and there we are, a few minutes later and we're not on the list, then our name reappears...sort of like an unreliable data base, name flickers on and off. Off/on period is releative to smugglers's skill level.
4. Lowered radar profile.
5. Temporarily removing name from over our heads so that the BH needs to know what we look like.
6. A means of slicing the term to remove ourselves completely AND a limit to the the times the same BH, or any other BH, can take the same mission for us.
too early to think of more, brain isn't awake yet. BTW, is there a time limit a BH has to complete his kill mission? There should be.
I want to be able to take and fail (or cheat) a mission with a large enough reward that I risk the BH terms. But I do NOT want it without the skills to evade the BH or foil the terms.
SpinningCloud
Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:29 am
#33
akd23; "As jedi knight is a pvp prof, it should be more powerful than a master smuggler in combat. It then becomes difficult to blance master smuggler vs master BH without making the master BH weak vs jedi knights."
That is exactly why the Smuggler should be a master of evasion and foiling the BH terms.
Let the BH and Jedi go head to head in combat.
The battle of the BH and the Smuggler should be one of evasion and tracking...NOT the fight.
If a BH is as powerful as a Knight then once the BH finds the Smuggler the game is over. BUT it should be a balanced game of FINDING the Smuggler for the BH.
So while catching the Jedi should just be a matter of time and perseverence, finding a Smuggler should be a major accomplishment (since killing him will be so easy).
Vrond
Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:31 am
#34
I really like the concept of your 6th point. We should also be able to slice the term to see if we are on the term and if we fail either slice and we should have an increased risk. Maybe have the BH sent an email saying what terminal we are at and slicing and have us not know we where detected.
SpinningCloud wrote:
Evasion should be our weapon against BHs, not dueling.
Evasion type skills can come in many forms;
1. Our criminal faction points can give us advanced warning of BHs that have taken out a contract on us...and their location through the chase,
2. Skills to foil tracking droids...like decoy droids perhaps?
3. BH term slicing skills that cause our names to appear unreliably on BH terms. Look once and there we are, a few minutes later and we're not on the list, then our name reappears...sort of like an unreliable data base, name flickers on and off. Off/on period is releative to smugglers's skill level.
4. Lowered radar profile.
5. Temporarily removing name from over our heads so that the BH needs to know what we look like.
6. A means of slicing the term to remove ourselves completely AND a limit to the the times the same BH, or any other BH, can take the same mission for us.
too early to think of more, brain isn't awake yet. BTW, is there a time limit a BH has to complete his kill mission? There should be.
I want to be able to take and fail (or cheat) a mission with a large enough reward that I risk the BH terms. But I do NOT want it without the skills to evade the BH or foil the terms.
riotcontrol
Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:55 am
#35
SpinningCloud wrote:too early to think of more, brain isn't awake yet. BTW, is there a time limit a BH has to complete his kill mission? There should be.I want to be able to take and fail (or cheat) a mission with a large enough reward that I risk the BH terms. But I do NOT want it without the skills to evade the BH or foil the terms.
Why would Smuggler missions have to be the same kill missions as Jedi missions at all? Check my previous post in this thread, I'd much rather support a 'non-lethal' version where Smugglers wouldn't be on the same terminals as Jedi/NPC bounties but where a BH would simply work for the crimelord NPCs the Smuggler works for and go after him to collect the debt. (this would also mean no tracking droids, or just the Arakyds for the planet location)
atytula
Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:36 am
#37
Thats why they need to change the system so BH can get into a house where a Jedi is hiding regardless of the entry and ban lists. On the other side, they need to make it harder to track Jedi so they have a chance to evade. The same would hold true for Smuggler bounties.
EnderUK wrote:
Does any Bounty Hunter really want to hunt me when I get my combat template back up
Having experinced being a bounty hunter all I can says is that smugglers will do exactly the same as what Jedi do. They will sit in aprivate cantina or house.
Ashet
Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:31 am
#38
There are a lot of problems with the Jedi vs. BH system. Let's get this working right before we expand it. I for one would want to steer clear of that entire mess.
Ternque01
Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:22 pm
#39
Above all else, it is my deeeeeeepest wish to be hunted by PC BH's.