Smuggler Archive

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Kelko wrote:

I agree. But instead of position up, IHMO it should be on a timer based on the players level of FD.

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A timer is just as bad when they shouldn't even know you are alive. All they will do then is just sit around and camp your 'corpse' instead of moving on.

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ZarrnOrion wrote:

My idea for Feign Death has always been like this:

Novice Smuggler - +5 Feign Death (5 Feign)

DF1 - +10 Feign Death (15 Feign)

DF2 - +15 Feign Death (25 Feign)

DF3 - +20 Feign Death (45 Feign)

DF4 - +30 Feign Death (75 Feign)

Master Smuggler - +50 Feign Death (125 Feign)

For a total of +125 Feign Death at Master.

Plus for BH Missions - Not sure how they'd delegate it out to who has the missions. But if a Jedi Feigns, the BH in combat with him with a mission wins the mission, the Jedi loses maybe 25% of the normal XP he'd lose if he incapped/died and the mission is over. Vise-versa if a BH feigns while in combat with a Jedi, the BH loses the mission and the mission is reset. The Jedi can go about their own way, and neither party can attack the other.

What Feign should do PROPERLY is break combat and TEF's. So as a reward for PVP, a Feigning Smuggler should lose FP, but not die.

That is how I feel Feign should work.

Message Edited by ZarrnOrion on 10-07-2004 12:50 PM

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I really like your idea, looks real good.

A real simple fix to this is to have a large chunk of the FD skill mod at master.


When xping up we all had FD fail in the lower levels. If a large chunk of the skill were attained at master it would prevent the dabblers just taking it, or it would at least fail on them most of the time.

THat would be a very easy solution and they would not have to code a counter and hence not a nerf.

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Calhen wrote:

Coincidentially, none of the BHs that I know or talk to uses FD, but then I only know the FarStar community (and we also have a GCW going, so I suppose we are all weird), mainly since it costs a whole lot too many skillpoints, and those are needed badly to be competitive against the current jedi.

Either way, if a BH feigns, sure, end the mission. Putting the hunter on terminals would be part of the whole player missions idea, currently its not easy to implement it as the BH profession is much, much weaker than Jedi especially when the hunter as the surprise. Also, since there is no loss to being killed as BH, since it is just a normal profession, it would just give easy credits.

I suppose the easiest quick-fix would be that neither Jedi nor Bounty Hunter ever believes a FD in the mission that connects them. If you got a mission TEF, you cant successfully FD against people who have it, IE the hunter/his group, or the jedi/his group.

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OK, I think I have an idea here to balance FD with bounty-hunters. First off, I think almost every rational soul on the boards has agreed that allowing Jedi to FD for 1/2 exp loss (or some such factor) and letting the BH succeed (which pulls the Jedi off the terimals as well) is a working solution. To balance this, I suggest the following changes to BH missions:

1. Taking a player mission costs the BH 1/5 of the current mission value and that amount is added into the final reward for success. This means the payout is the same, but there is a risk for failure.
2. Feign Death automatically fails the mission the BH is on.
3. BH may 'sell' their mission back to the terminal for the price paid to get it (this will allow a BH to cancel a mission where the Jedi logs out before the BH gets there, or some similar such nonsense. But only at the terminal, to prevent the BH from dropping the mission in the middle of a fight to not lose the credits invested).

This could be implemented considerably more easily then putting BH on the terminals.

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GrimRebuke wrote:

OK, I think I have an idea here to balance FD with bounty-hunters. First off, I think almost every rational soul on the boards has agreed that allowing Jedi to FD for 1/2 exp loss (or some such factor) and letting the BH succeed (which pulls the Jedi off the terimals as well) is a working solution. To balance this, I suggest the following changes to BH missions:

1. Taking a player mission costs the BH 1/5 of the current mission value and that amount is added into the final reward for success. This means the payout is the same, but there is a risk for failure.
2. Feign Death automatically fails the mission the BH is on.
3. BH may 'sell' their mission back to the terminal for the price paid to get it (this will allow a BH to cancel a mission where the Jedi logs out before the BH gets there, or some similar such nonsense. But only at the terminal, to prevent the BH from dropping the mission in the middle of a fight to not lose the credits invested).

This could be implemented considerably more easily then putting BH on the terminals.

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Or, how about reading my post I linked earlier?

I'm sorry, but as a MBH your points wouldn't wouldn't fly. I can go more in depth if you like.

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Rockhurst wrote:

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

With how feign death currently works It needs a counter, just position up is an ass-backwards approach to it in my opinion. Yet the devs working on the combat revamp seemed approving of position up at the summit...

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As an alternative of position up, take a look at THIS post if you can and tell me what you think...this is coming from a MBH.

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Sounds reasonable too for when there are smuggler missions on terminals, would solve the problem with jedis too I guess, only missing is when a BH feigns.

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true_Kieran wrote:

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Rockhurst wrote:

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

With how feign death currently works It needs a counter, just position up is an ass-backwards approach to it in my opinion. Yet the devs working on the combat revamp seemed approving of position up at the summit...

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As an alternative of position up, take a look at THIS post if you can and tell me what you think...this is coming from a MBH.

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Sounds reasonable too for when there are smuggler missions on terminals, would solve the problem with jedis too I guess, only missing is when a BH feigns.

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Rockhurst wrote:

Good points. One thing to remember is that if a BH uses FD, he's still part Smuggler. My solutions would be 1) also give this cert to Master Smugglers (therefore they could detect FD in lower level smugglers - such as MBH/Smuggers)and 2) give Jedi a force sensing skill that would work exactly the same as the BH/Smuggler detection droids.

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Once again, I'd like to point out that in our current world, with smuggler being so inferior in combat ability to our BH friends, FD is the only counter we have to a person choosing the place, time, and being pre-buffed and equiped for the fight when we may not be. All FD does is give us the opportunity to 'opt out' of the battle of the moment. If we are going to talk about play balance, then let's make sure any changes to FD are tied directly to changes that give the smuggler on the street, logged in for 5 minutes and still searching for his molecular clamps without buffs or donning armor, the chance to get away when the Master Bounty Hunter with lightning cannon in hand, fully buffed and fully armored, comes walking over the hill. I would also be opposed to any changes to FD that didn't also address the fact that FD is broken right now. We do not appear as corpses, combat flags are not dropped, we can be blackbarred and have our armor destroyed, we can be healed, we can group and ungroup.
If we don't address these issues, but instead make FD worthless for saving your life in a pinch you didn't get yourself into in the first place, all we are doing is making a weak class weaker and not worth playing. If there is no chance for the smuggler, no one will take missions that result in visibility except hard-core PvP players who have smuggler as an add-on to a combat template solely to lure in BH. I think it is silly to be making entire professions that are only played in their namesake manner by players who take 2 or 3 boxes in for the PvP aspect and ignore the rest of the profession. It is silly that it happened to BH and it would be sillier still if we 'revamped' the smuggler profession into that end result.

GrimRebuke,my response is in the other post.

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Smuggler_Caylin wrote:

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Kelko wrote:

I agree. But instead of position up, IHMO it should be on a timer based on the players level of FD.

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A timer is just as bad when they shouldn't even know you are alive. All they will do then is just sit around and camp your 'corpse' instead of moving on.

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Good point!

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true_Kieran wrote:

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Rockhurst wrote:

Good points. One thing to remember is that if a BH uses FD, he's still part Smuggler. My solutions would be 1) also give this cert to Master Smugglers (therefore they could detect FD in lower level smugglers - such as MBH/Smuggers) and 2) give Jedi a force sensing skill that would work exactly the same as the BH/Smuggler detection droids.

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Good idea, makes perfectly sense too, the first who can tell if someone is acting is another actor and Jedis are known for sensing things.

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Here is my single largest issue with this... there is nothing for the smuggler to do but sit there getting blackbarred while the other person tries repeatedly to use this ability to break the feign until it is broken. They will then be fighting a prone, 1 HAM person. Someone posted the idea of having certain professions get bonuses against FD so that anything but Master Smuggler has 50/50 or worse odds of feigning in PvP successfully. I like this idea better, as success then means something. With this system, you might fail the feign, and then if you do succeed, you just get to sit there having your equipment destroyed until they group with enough friends that one finally knocks you out of feign.

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GrimRebuke wrote:

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true_Kieran wrote:

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Rockhurst wrote:

Good points. One thing to remember is that if a BH uses FD, he's still part Smuggler. My solutions would be 1) also give this cert to Master Smugglers (therefore they could detect FD in lower level smugglers - such as MBH/Smuggers) and 2) give Jedi a force sensing skill that would work exactly the same as the BH/Smuggler detection droids.

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Good idea, makes perfectly sense too, the first who can tell if someone is acting is another actor and Jedis are known for sensing things.

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Here is my single largest issue with this... there is nothing for the smuggler to do but sit there getting blackbarred while the other person tries repeatedly to use this ability to break the feign until it is broken. They will then be fighting a prone, 1 HAM person. Someone posted the idea of having certain professions get bonuses against FD so that anything but Master Smuggler has 50/50 or worse odds of feigning in PvP successfully. I like this idea better, as success then means something. With this system, you might fail the feign, and then if you do succeed, you just get to sit there having your equipment destroyed until they group with enough friends that one finally knocks you out of feign.

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hehe...I wish we could all keep this in the same thread, but oh well. No, my idea would include that the person trying to break FD with the droid/Jedi skill only gets one chance. If the FD Smuggler succeeds, repeated attempts will notbreak the FD. If the Smuggler is FDed, the smuggler is unattackable and cannot be blackbarred.