Smuggler Archive

Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 08-06-2004 02:38 AM

Ok, I understand that you're trying to get a reasonable answer out of SOE about the problem, and i commend you for the attempt. HOWEVER, as it is an issue with the smuggler profession, a profession I should point out that has zero text within its master skill box after 406 days, I wouldn't expect there to BE any official statement. To my knowledge there still isn't an official statement about the spice-nerf (or was there and i just didn't pay attention) or why Panic Shot was nerfed to balance a starting profession skill, or why HAM-rot while FD isn't considered an exploit. The fact is, smuggler issues have yet to receive the attention or discussion they deserve.

So justify using those rifles all you want. The CSR did tell you they were legal, so go ahead and use them. You do have a screenshot of that conversation right? In case CSR2 talks to you and tells you they are illegal? And if you're so concerned whether power-up slicing is an exploit, here's a simple solution. DON'T get anything else PUp sliced in the future. You don't have to worry about the issue then, right? The fact remains that the process of PUp slicing, as it goes around the in-game mechanics, is an exploit.

The other thing to realize: if you want an official statement from SOE about something, don't look for it in the Smuggler forum. Try the In Live, Jedi, JTL or any other forum that gets dev attention, cuz we sure as he77 don't in here. In fact, I'm sure you go ask this question in the Jedi forum at the moment, you'll have TH and JustG and everyone else falling over themselves to give you an answer, probably contridicting one another. Anyone remember the last time a red name showed up in here?

Lets look at this from a different direction then...

We all know what an exploit is right? No?

• It is manipulating game mechanics in a way which is unintended in order to gain an advantage.

Anyone disagree with this?

Weapons are not intended to be sliced while poweruped, this is clear from the fact that the game automatically removes any powerups from a weapon when slicing starts... If slicing weapons with powerups was intended then they wouldn't be removed.

Thus finding a way to slice a weapon while it is poweruped is not intended and gives an advantage, thus it is an exploit.

You don't need an SOE employee to inform you of this fact, you have a brain of your own and can work things out for yourself, right?

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Orcajum wrote:
Ok, I understand that you're trying to get a reasonable answer out of SOE about the problem, and i commend you for the attempt. HOWEVER, as it is an issue with the smuggler profession, a profession I should point out that has zero text within its master skill box after 406 days, I wouldn't expect there to BE any official statement. To my knowledge there still isn't an official statement about the spice-nerf (or was there and i just didn't pay attention) or why Panic Shot was nerfed to balance a starting profession skill, or why HAM-rot while FD isn't considered an exploit. The fact is, smuggler issues have yet to receive the attention or discussion they deserve.

So justify using those rifles all you want. The CSR did tell you they were legal, so go ahead and use them. You do have a screenshot of that conversation right? In case CSR2 talks to you and tells you they are illegal? And if you're so concerned whether power-up slicing is an exploit, here's a simple solution. DON'T get anything else PUp sliced in the future. You don't have to worry about the issue then, right? The fact remains that the process of PUp slicing, as it goes around the in-game mechanics, is an exploit.

The other thing to realize: if you want an official statement from SOE about something, don't look for it in the Smuggler forum. Try the In Live, Jedi, JTL or any other forum that gets dev attention, cuz we sure as he77 don't in here. In fact, I'm sure you go ask this question in the Jedi forum at the moment, you'll have TH and JustG and everyone else falling over themselves to give you an answer, probably contridicting one another. Anyone remember the last time a red name showed up in here?

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Point 1 - I'm sorry you have not received the attention your profession deserves.

Point 2 - I'm not trying to justify the rifles. I don't care about the rifles. I simply asked for a rule clarification due to conflicting information. Everyone says they are trying to help, yet your suggestion is simply "don't do it, then its not a problem." And then you give me your opinion of the slicing technique. Thanks, that clarifies alot.

Point 3 - Obviously they are reading the threads in here because one that discussed this very topic was deleted today. And I also am upset about the continue pushing back of issues that have been on the plate for...?? 10 months now? As this is a matter that concerns the smuggler profession, this is where I posted my question.

I realize it does not go over well to have ones judgement questioned, howeverI do not understand why my asking for a clarification of the conflicting information I have received is upsetting so many people.

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lisasdarren wrote:

Lets look at this from a different direction then...

We all know what an exploit is right? No?

• It is manipulating game mechanics in a way which is unintended in order to gain an advantage.

Anyone disagree with this?

Weapons are not intended to be sliced while poweruped, this is clear from the fact that the game automatically removes any powerups from a weapon when slicing starts... If slicing weapons with powerups was intended then they wouldn't be removed.

Thus finding a way to slice a weapon while it is poweruped is not intended and gives an advantage, thus it is an exploit.

You don't need an SOE employee to inform you of this fact, you have a brain of your own and can work things out for yourself, right?

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Where is the advantage? Every smuggler can do this, so there is no advantage. A powerup is automatically removed when slicing starts, some smuggler found he could slice into the slice and reapply a powerup. Concluding that this is an exploit because if it was ok, it wouldn't have been removed in the first place is again, an opinion. One I don't disagree with, or agree with. Then again with the if I don't reach your obvious conclusion, I'm not too intelligent. Pulease play a different toon and quit taking offense because I'm not agreeing with your opinion.

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Ailuu wrote:

I realize it does not go over well to have ones judgement questioned, however I do not understand why my asking for a clarification of the conflicting information I have received is upsetting so many people.

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Mostly because it is impossible for us to give you the answer you want. You want clarification for SOE, and that's something we cannot provide. It appears that they want to push the issue under the rug until the have the time to remove the exploit. Until then, the devs don't appear to want to talk about it in a public setting. As such, they have communicated with Caylin in general terms the nature of the situation. And for whatever reason, he is unable to tell much more than he has. However, as correspondant, he is supposed to be the conduit through which information moves between players and devs and vice versa.

I think most of the frustration in here is not truly directed toward you for wanting clarification. We all would like an official statement, even better would be if they resolved the situation fully. The frustration comes from the 100 things that need to be fixed with smugglers, yet holoemotes are more important. You see what I'm getting at?

Your best route is probably to send a message directly to TH or Taurin (he's the exploit guy, right?) or someone outside the forum. Believe me, we'd all like to help you, but unfortunately the official statement you're asking for is beyond our capabilities. I'm sorry that this doesn't really clear anything up for you. I truely wish we could give you something.

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Ailuu wrote:

Where is the advantage? Every smuggler can do this, so there is no advantage. A powerup is automatically removed when slicing starts, some smuggler found he could DO SOMETHING. Concluding that this is an exploit because if it was ok, it wouldn't have been removed in the first place is again, an opinion. One I don't disagree with, or agree with. Then again with the if I don't reach your obvious conclusion, I'm not too intelligent. Pulease play a different toon and quit taking offense because I'm not agreeing with your opinion.

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There is an advantage, you get higher slices when doing this work around than when slicing as intended. Just because everyone can do an exploit doesn't stop it from being one.

A smuggler found a way to subvert the fact that the powerup was removed, they did something that was not a part of normal slicing mechanics and that allows them to achieve results that are unintended from slicing.

This is how slicing is intended to happen...

• Click on weapon to be sliced and choose slice from the radial (Any PUPS get removed from weapon)


• Apply a Molecular Clamp or FAN (optional)


• Cut wire 1


• Cut wire 2

Doing anything other than this to improve the quality of the slice is not part of the intended slicing process, therefore it is an exploit.

There is no opinion here, there is a combinationof things that determines that the action taken is an exploit

• The intended slicing process is a known and documented procedure


• The method known as PUP slicing is not part of this intended slicing process


• Doing something unintended to gain an advantage over doing it the intended way is an exploit

I am sure you can follow this logic trail and see the the facts presented here, if you refuse to then I am not accusing you of being less intelligent than me, but you are deliberatly avoiding the facts because you don't want to see them. I am not taking offence because you disagree with my opinion, i am not taking offence at all.

You are however deliberatly trying to avoid facts so that you don't have to admit that both you and the CSR you spoke to were wrong.

Jesus CHRIST, if you really expect to get any kind of answer on this from an official who actually knows what they're talking about, have fun waiting for the Rapture too. In the eight years between now and when you get your response, there's no need to post more, as we all know you're looking for "official" word from on high, that the advice of our tireless and encyclopaedic correspondent (not to mention the consenting opinion of 98% of this forum) means nothing, and that the corroborating evidence of threads about this very subject being deleted is immaterial until we get an announcement from someone with a red name. The whole thing sounds like nothing more than a shallow attempt to justify your behavior when you get in trouble for it down the line--"You can't ban me, I asked for a ruling on this and none was given, so it wasn't illegal at the time, you don't have a leg to stand on." Come on now. We're smugglers, not lawyers.

Jesus CHRIST #2, is this forum starting to mirror our profession or what? The only time SOE employees show up is to delete something.