Smuggler Archive

The main issue that I have with the loot drop system is that it again caters once again to the powergamer. The "old" system was very elgalitarian in that any could get lucky and end up with an exceptional weapon. If you need to be the type that camps krayt dragons to get high end slices then we're stuck in an equipment version of the rich getting richer and the poor never getting ahead.

My stuff is in Green.

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WesBelden wrote:

If anyone's got anything to add to this, please do so, I'll fill in as people post (assuming you don't unleash the rage and hit random keys )

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Pros

• This system is likely to be very lucrative for Smugglers, given the high end components requiring players to brave high end content to acquire them. It also presents an entry barier to the profession - try breaking into weaponsmithing without some uber loot drops to see what I mean.


• A form of risk is involved and required, either taken by the client, the Smuggler, or the Smuggler’s supplier (although see cons). This 'risk' is already in place for every legally crafted item in the game - it has nothing to do with contraband - and it DOES NOT provide the function 'plan a' was supposed to - making sliced weapons MORE risky than legal ones.


• Development time. Since all of this is a rehash of existing systems and takes advantage of existing locations, the devs can just click a few buttons and add a few entries to the database and call it day. This is an advantage to developers NOT our profession ... remove this. It is NOT a benefit of the system it's mearly a corner the DEVs can cut to give us something less.


• Renewed interest in abandoned locations. I haven't been back to the Avatar station since I got my UR-G8. I haven't been to the Death Watch Bunker since I got my DE-10s. I haven't been back to The Warren since I got my badges (and briefly for that Boba Fett mission). People tend to get what they need and then seek out easier pastures, such as the Krayt Graveyard. This offers one more reason to brave the dangers. This should be a development goal of SWG in general NOT of the smuggler profession or it's slicing ability ... it may accomplish this ... but it has nothing to do with slicing.
  
• Player Perception. Since the dawn of SWG, the majority of players have operated on the mistaken belief that full composite armor, full doctor's buffs and a 35% damage slice are required elements of playing the game. This change may just possibly help to promote the idea that slices are added boosts, not the default setting. (Weapon jamming would have promoted that idea a lot more, however) It's not fair to call this a pro of the system as the Combat Upgrade should do this not the slicing system - ANY slicing system post CU would accomplish this. The only thing this will promote is the perception that smugglers need to farm loot or pay out the tail pipe to someone who will
  
• Far better than what we have - No matter what system we get, it has to be better than handing someone their precious Proton Carbine and cheerfully telling them about the -4% speed slice you just gave them. Arugable ... having to go get a kryat gizzard to I can cast my enchant spell on your sword is a debateable improvement at best if you ask me - I'd prefer knives and wires ... in anycase - again it's not fair to say this system is better than another because it offers buffs that are CU-aligned... as you say ... anything post-CU would be.


• Mystique. Only the truly dedicated or the truly insane will be able to afford the luxury of multiple level 4 slices (like, a whole suit of armor). This may put the smuggler's art up in the same area as RIS armor and (*heeheee*) Jedi. It could also alienate new players by making it seem the entire process is unattainable except for the veteran elite. exactly the CON I was thinking of ... barier of entry to new players ... they will never be able to copete with the uber-slicer who has already made a name for himself on the server. This has already happened with weaponsmiths/armorsmiths etc ... when slicing is simply after the fact loot-based crafting ... it will suffer the same economic problems that have plauged the game for 2 years.

Cons

• The risks involved aren’t related to avoiding any law enforcers/authority and are pre-slice, not post-slice as contraband should be (thanks, Wes)


• It’s attainable only through loot drops.


• Not so good for the 'little man'; those without the contacts and supporting guilds will be hard pressed to compete amen


• Weapons have caps on slices,


• Crafters are cut off from this system


• To get the most out of this, you’ll have to get up off your arse and work for it! I don't see this as a con ... but I'm just not sure what the associated pro is supposed to be ... anyone?


• Explaining the whole damned thing 40 times a day. Non-smugglers are notoriously ignorant of what slicing entails. LOL - amen (I get this on my weaponsmith all the time too)


• This system echos the krayt tissues loot drops, it doesn't seem all that underworld like/Smuggler esq. Nor does it even seem all that sci-fi .. seems like finding the right voo-doo parts to cast a spell.

Pro-Cons

• This makes a 'good smuggler' defined by her ability to "get stuff" from endgame content locations, rather than her ability to act and think like a smuggler. A good smuggler is someone who keeps a ready supply of loot items in her backpack. Depending on how you look at it, this fits in with the Smuggler ethos of being able to procure rare items for their clients (think Mirax from the Xwing series), or turns us into loot-monkeys - yes, and I will admit that part of that appeals to me ... but I'm very concerned that 'casual gamer' smugglers will NEVER be able to take part in a meaningful slicing market now (again ... try being a casual weaponsmith who does not have the uber loot drops or a guild who can get them ... you will NOT be able to compete)

Concerns/Questions

• Will this eventually be tied in with the Smuggler contact/quest system once it’s implemented?


• Will a Smuggler need vast amounts of components at hand and thus require a storage house?


• Smuggler will be required to get the components themselves, as customers are too lazy and suppliers charge too much,


• If the top tier of slicing will be worth all the effort/useful enough,


• Whether caps on damage etc. will still prevent an item being sliced on that particular stat,


• Drop rates being too common and causing a lot of items to flood the market,


• Drop rates being too few and making it next to impossible to acquire what’s needed to slice,


• Would this not to graduallycreate a large amount oflegendary esq level weapons, something that the CU was implemented to specifically adddress and remove from the game?


• Will lower end slices be able to be replaced/added to by hier tier slices as they currently are on TC?


• Camping is a bigpossibility. (really big - acklay bone, anyone?)


• Smugglers requiring a full combat template in order to compete.


• Will any of this loot drop in space? How about some part of this that feels remotely sci-fi?

Suggestions

• Can there not be a compromise with the current version on TC and the component parts, allowing a slice for each tier, giving the option to use a component, but not requiring it, the none-component slice being considerably less potent than the component slice. - like it (but again ... this plan B does NOT provide the function Plan A was meant to ... GreenMarine!?)
  


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  [LOVE this followingidea: (and would probably get me to stop beatching about risk vs.reward) ]: When you get scanned and caught with a sliced weapon, the imperial or rebel in question can...
  
  
  
  
  1) force you to remove all the slicing bonuses. Weapon is reset to factory standards and you must see a smuggler again for a reslice (looted parts are returned to you. it'll be too cruel to have them "confescated")
  
  
  
  
  2) As a veeeerrrryyy slim chance, break your weapon as an "example". Weapon no loger fuctions requiring a smuggler to reset and re-tune.

• PLEASE make these loot drop components 'contraband'. In fact these are theIDEAL things to have confiscated should a scan and search fail. This idea would allow all players to loot the components but only Smugglers to safely transport them.

• Make all levels of components drop off enough variety of mob that spawn randomly on all planets such that there is NO one place to be camped. I really HATE camping, I left AO because of it. - amen!

Message Edited by WesBelden on 06-24-2005 05:22 PM

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One more thing, that's kind of small and overlooked, but important.

This new system seems to undervalue the Master title. It was hard enough living through all these years when all it meant was an extra couple percentage points of what you could slice, but one thing that kept me and probably a lot of us old timers with it was the dream that some day being a master might mean something. Every other professional master box is distinct from the non-masters. There is something in that box that raises the status and the ability of mastering that profession. It seems that not only have the devs given us a system that doesn't do this, it actually devalues the master title.

So I would put makes being a master insignificant to the list of cons.

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lurdanta wrote:
One more thing, that's kind of small and overlooked, but important.

This new system seems to undervalue the Master title. It was hard enough living through all these years when all it meant was an extra couple percentage points of what you could slice, but one thing that kept me and probably a lot of us old timers with it was the dream that some day being a master might mean something. Every other professional master box is distinct from the non-masters. There is something in that box that raises the status and the ability of mastering that profession. It seems that not only have the devs given us a system that doesn't do this, it actually devalues the master title.

So I would put makes being a master insignificant to the list of cons.

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The Master-level inadiquacy is a global issue for us.

I echo my suggler bretheren's request for *significant* Master-Level advantages in this system, and all systems currently proposed for alteration as part of our multi-phase "revamp".

However, I caution that any advantages listed must maintain a usefulness for lower level smugglers- we are not all Masters yet. I hope that some element of the tiered slice system will in fact make a Slicing 2-4 boxed smuggler a useful supplier to our client base, allowing them to turn to any lower-level smuggler for their first few tiers of slicing on their weapon rather than holding out for a Master to apply all levels of slicing at once?

Just something to keep in mind.

I believe INDY has hit the nail on the head, as it pertains tothe proposed system; as it stands right now, I am/was far more happier with cutting red-blue wire deal, than with the prospects of having to camp xyz; and for what? In order to get a good loot drop?

There has got to be a better way.

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BaronJuJu wrote:

Wes,

Very good summary of the items mentioned ...possibly another concern I would mention would be:

Would this not to start to create large amounts oflegendary weapons back into the markets and PvP, something that the CU was implemented to specifically adddress and remove from the game?

I really like the suggestion at the end.

Thanks

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That is a VERY real concern! Once a weapon is eventually decked out with all the high end components possible, it is now a l33t uber legendary weapon that will never break or lose that effectiveness. And logically, anyone can eventually get a great weapon, get that puppy sliced like crazy with l33t parts, slap on an ADK, and they have a weapon that unbalances the CU once again...

I like the contraband scans idea ...

But, if that is done, they should tune up the scans a bit. Make it a chance to walk around with an illegally sliced item.

Another idea. Upon death and clone, the weapon resets to factory standards. no more slice and the loot componet is removed...awaiting a re-tune from a quilified Smuggler...

Yet another Idea...although it is a wacky one...and it needs more thought...

Allow space stations to occasionallyscan for contraban on a ships pilot and passengers. What would this accomplish?

- Smuggler pilots would be desired to transport people with contraband weapons and armor to evad scans!

- if a pilot and/or passanger allows the station to scan and finds illegal slicing, the items are reset to normal status with no more slice before landing...

- i'll have to think about that dang "travel" button.

But simply put: Sliced weapons bonuses should not last forever!

Baz Pseudopod

The issue I see with this system:

If a smuggler has to risk his life to obtain a component in order to produce a high-level slice, he is clearly going to charge a lot of money. This being the case, the highest level slice is still a really pathetic low number of say 10% damage increase. 10% damage increase on a 300-856 weapon (standard damage stats for most ranged weapons) is a measly 85 points of damage. So in effect, this system forces smugglers to charge people a lot of money for a slice they wont even notice. I'd like to see anyone win a duel with a gun that does 85 more points of damage over someone else that doesnt have it.

Worth the money? No. Worth the Smuggler risking his life, item decay, time and reputation? No. Will people be prepared to pay for a high-end loot slice when it only increases by medeocre amounts? No.

If this system is to work, we need to start seing 35% slices or even higher again, otherwise it simply wont be worth our time and will wind up not being used except on 1/10 people's ULTIMATE weapon.

In effect, this system is shooting itself in the foot by making it useless.

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zakalex wrote:

If this does go through and a level 2 slicer is as good as non-loot-masterSmuggler thenwhy would a client want to possibly pay anything extra for the master title? Thats what they are really paying for now is the Master Smuggler title.

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Message Edited by dlc3007 on 06-25-2005 12:28 PM

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dlc3007 wrote:

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zakalex wrote:

If this does go through and a level 2 slicer is as good as non-loot-masterSmuggler thenwhy would a client want to possibly pay anything extra for the master title? Thats what they are really paying for now is the Master Smuggler title.

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Not exactly. For example, someone 70% customization on their weapon for speed and/or damage. They want to add in a little Crit. Damage just to round it out. They MUST find a Master Smuggler. No one else can do it, tools or not. Sounds like they'll be paying for a bit more than the title.

Remember, slicing is no longer a one-shot deal. It isn't binary any more. In fact, the sooner everyone can forget what slicing used to be like, the better off everyone will be.

Message Edited by dlc3007 on 06-25-2005 12:28 PM

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Finally, someone with some common sense....