Smuggler Archive

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maxtheusher wrote:
I don't agree with "components should be optional" thing, at least for the best level of slices. The component slice could not possibly be THAT much better than a non-component master level slice... thus making the component slice MUCH less profitable...

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I don't think component slicing would have to be much less profitable...Krayted weapons cost much more than non-krayted weapons - sometimes 100x more. And how big of a difference is there in terms of performance? Significant, sure, but 100x better?

And I agree with IndySWG - the risk involved is not the kind of risk we've been asking/waiting for.

Message Edited by mds248 on 06-23-2005 04:11 PM

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BaronJuJu wrote:

I really like the suggestion at the end.

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Pinched it from XrioT who suggested it in GM's thread.

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maxtheusher wrote:

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mds248 wrote:

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maxtheusher wrote:
I don't agree with "components should be optional" thing, at least for the best level of slices. The component slice could not possibly be THAT much better than a non-component master level slice... thus making the component slice MUCH less profitable...

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I don't think component slicing would have to be much less profitable...Krayted weapons cost much more than non-krayted weapons - sometimes 100x more. And how big of a difference is there in terms of performance? Significant, sure, but 100x better?

And I agree with IndySWG - the risk involved is not the kind of risk we've been asking/waiting for.

Message Edited by mds248 on 06-23-2005 04:11 PM

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GM already said a 10% critical strike chance slice would be an impressive slice. Let's say 15% is the max. Where would you put the tiers 1-3 slices within the 15% scale? Where would the master level slice go? 10%? 12%?

we're not talking about a 600 damage gun vs an 800 damage gun or whatever... we're talking about small percentages.

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This is why I'm not worried about this leading to a new "legendary weapons" scenario. Those things were literally multiple times better than standard guns. Here, we're talking a difference of 5%, tops--a slight edge, but nothing imbalancing.

Heres another Idea on gaining these components.

Sure make all of them lootable.
Make the low ones craftable because they are 'quasi-legal'
Anything that is Not Legal can be acquired for a substantial price from an underworld contact.

IE you can get the Slicing I stuff from a crafter.
The Slicing II stuff from Jawa Traders(don't pie me yet)
The Slicing III and IV stuff from the criminal Element in Cantinas (underworld skill is required to obtain).
Master Level stuff randomly from Underworld Bosses like Jabba, Nym or Talon via Smuggling missions.

The benefit of this is that Slicing components will be readily available to Smugglers, yet still expensive.
The Risk vs. Reward Element then goes back to the Smuggler. You can either pay x for a component and charge 2x for the slice OR go hunting Black Sun Thugs and Loot the component, and still charge 2x for the slice, you took the risk, and now you make twice the reward. If a Non-Smuggler loots the component for his slice you can slice it and charge x. He took the risk and now the cost of his reward is half what it normally would be, and the Smuggler's profit margin stays the same.

Add increased cost to making a weapon versusno change in weapon decay timeto the list.

Might seem like a slight oversight, but it's a problem because really only the most uber perfected multimillion credit guns will be worth the effort of a T4 slice (providing the *rare* loot drops for them are in extremely high end areas that require grouping), and that won't happen very often.

Add to the list of cons that you will NEED an expansion to get some of the loot drops. My concern with this comes from 2 things.

1. We will be the only profession required to have an expansion in order to perform one of their basic functions.

2. It was previously stated, although not regarding slicing, that a Smuggler shouldn't need to have an expansion in order to perform their job. This is a core game profession. Has the decision regarding this type of stuff changed?

One final note. Once again we're gonna be the ONLY profession that needs loot drops to perform one of their functions. No other profession is required to do this. I'm not complaining. I'm not even saying we shouldn't give this a try. What I'm saying is that there SHOULD have been room in there for these components to be crafted, with looted ones being exceptional.

Message Edited by IndySWG on 06-23-2005 10:53 PM

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WesBelden wrote:

If anyone's got anything to add to this, please do so, I'll fill in as people post (assuming you don't unleash the rage and hit random keys )

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Pros

• This system is likely to be very lucrative for Smugglers, given the high end components requiring players to brave high end content to acquire them.


• A form of risk is involved and required, either taken by the client, the Smuggler, or the Smuggler’s supplier.


• The system ties in better with the rest of the game world.


• Smugglers will hopefully no-longer be treated like slice-monkeys now that there is a greater deal of effort and worth prescribed to the action.

Cons

• Weapons have caps on slices


• You will most likely have to be a level 80 smuggler to slice for highend players


• Crafters are cut off


• camping


• The risks involved aren’t related to avoiding any law enforcers/authority


• It’s attainable only through loot drops.


• Itdoesn’t seem all that Smuggler esq. (although it does depend how you look at it).


• To get the most out of this, you’ll have to get up off your arse and work for it!

Concerns/Questions

• Will this eventually be tied in with the Smuggler contact/quest system once it’s implemented?


• Will a Smuggler need vast amounts of components at hand and thus require a storage house?


• Smuggler will be required to get the components themselves, as customers are too lazy and suppliers charge too much,


• If the top tier of slicing will be worth all the effort/useful enough,


• Whether caps on damage etc. will still prevent an item being sliced on that particular stat,


• Drop rates being too common and causing a lot of items to flood the market,


• Drop rates being too few and making it next to impossible to acquire what’s needed to slice,


• Would this not to graduallycreate a large amount oflegendary esq level weapons, something that the CU was implemented to specifically adddress and remove from the game?


• Will lower end slices be able to be replaced/added to by hier tier slices as they currently are on TC?

Suggestions

Can there not be a compromise with the current version on TC and the component parts, allowing a slice for each tier, giving the option to use a component, but not requiring it, the none-component slice being considerably less potent than the component slice.

Message Edited by WesBelden on 06-23-2005 11:51 PM

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• The 'risk' involved is not specific to smuggling, underworld, criminals or anything of the sort. The proposed system makes slicing into a military operation requiring significant resources and combat skill.


• The time and energy required to be successful in the proposed locations of the high end slicing drops far exceed the usefulness of the end result. Currently, weapons and armor decay FAR too rapidly to justify this sort of investment for anyone but the 24/7 playerbase. The 24/7 playerbase do not need additional content tailored only for them.


• The system echoes the existing system for krayt tissues and similar components. It is a repeat of that system, inserted at a different point in the crafting process. There is no innovation here. Weaponsmiths could just as easily be given another Enhancement slot for the hair triggers and carbon-fiber firing pins to achieve the same effect.


• The emphasis is placed on inventory management and item quality, and contrary to what was stated, relegates the smuggler to the role of 'slice-monkey' -- aka, the person who just happens to be able to click the button to make it happen. The player and the player's skills have little, if anything, to do during the process. There is no art, no problem solving and no improvisation involved here.


• This makes a 'good smuggler' defined by her ability to "get stuff" from endgame content locations, rather than her ability to act and think like a smuggler. A good smuggler is someone who keeps a ready supply of loot items in her backpack.


• There doesn't seem to be any logical reason why a Marksman 0/2/0/0 doesn't deserve a chance at having his scout blaster sliced and tweaked just as much as a Master Rifleman can tweak his T-21, but this system limits the accessibility for new players and players still working up a skill tree. Isn't a 30% speed slice just as useful to a novice marksman as a master?

• Development time. Since all of this is a rehash of existing systems and takes advantage of existing locations, the devs can just click a few buttons and add a few entries to the database and call it day.


• Renewed interest in abandoned locations. I haven't been back to the Avatar station since I got my UR-G8. I haven't been to the Death Watch Bunker since I got my DE-10s. I haven't been back to The Warren since I got my badges (and briefly for that Boba Fett mission). People tend to get what they need and then seek out easier pastures, such as the Krayt Graveyard. This offers one more reason to brave the dangers.


• Player Perception. Since the dawn of SWG, the majority of players have operated on the mistaken belief that full composite armor, full doctor's buffs and a 35% damage slice are required elements of playing the game. This change may just possibly help to promote the idea that slices are added boosts, not the default setting. (Weapon jamming would have promoted that idea a lot more, however)


• No matter what system we get, it has to be better than handing someone their precious Proton Carbine and cheerfully telling them about the -4% speed slice you just gave them.

• Interdepence (kinda). Most smugglers, being unable to survive these locations solo, will have to rely on other, combat-oriented characters to help them out. This could promote grouping. It could also promote price gouging similar to the early Holocron craze. Human nature being what it is, expect to see more of the latter than the former.


• Mystique. Only the truly dedicated or the truly insane will be able to afford the luxury of multiple level 4 slices (like, a whole suit of armor). This may put the smuggler's art up in the same area as RIS armor and (*heeheee*) Jedi. It could also alienate new players by making it seem the entire process is unattainable except for the veteran elite.


• Explaining the whole damned thing 40 times a day. Non-smugglers are notoriously ignorant of what slicing entails. They always have been and always will be. This means the smuggler's new job will be explaining, numerous times a day, what loots someone needs, where they can get them, sending them a waypoint when they don't know what a Death Watch is, trying to politely state that you're not going to walk them through the entire Avatar access missions, and finally kindly answering the question if a level 12 brawler can solo there.

Pros

* This system is likely to be very lucrative for Smugglers, given the high end components requiring players to brave high end content to acquire them.

Actually, I think this is a con. You might not think so since I imagine being the correspondent you have lot of friends and are part of a nice sized PA, but what it means to me is, since I don't have a large guild behind me and don't have a lot of friends who play, I won't be able to get these components. Which makes me wonder why I mastered smuggler in the first place and waited all these years for the revamp only to find I'll be cut out of it and won't be able to slice anything but mid range slices, same as any respec dabbler 0400 smuggler.

Why should only those smugglers who are able to get a group powerful enough to get into these places be the only people who can benefit. What you really mean to say is this will be very lucrative for smugglers in large PA's with lots of people willing to help them get these components. I play mostly solo in a small rp guild. I lucked out once and got into a DWB group, but haven't had any luck since then. I've had a ticket to get into the corvette for months and have yet been able to get a group to do it. Most groups on my server are guild based and not too open to outsiders and most of my friends left in disgust long ago. I stuck with it because I had hopes it would be worth it, now I'm a very sad smuggler.

Now maybe I'm reading this all wrong, but it seems like being a master won't mean much in terms of slicing unless I quit my guild and join some large PA.

I think the high end components should be reasonably available to all master smugglers. I'm a master smuggler darnit. I have no problem with them being rare, but putting them in the DWB and the Corvette seems exclusionary to players who don't have the benefit of a large group or have lots of jedi friends. Furthermore, it would be more profession appropriate if the high end components were the result of something smuggleresque like smuggling missions. Or how about making smugglers able to hack, con their way into the place where the component is? Make getting it more a factor of how good a smuggler you are, not how big your guild is or how uber your friends are.

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lurdanta wrote:
Pros

* This system is likely to be very lucrative for Smugglers, given the high end components requiring players to brave high end content to acquire them.

Actually, I think this is a con. You might not think so since I imagine being the correspondent you have lot of friends and are part of a nice sized PA, but what it means to me is, since I don't have a large guild behind me and don't have a lot of friends who play, I won't be able to get these components. Which makes me wonder why I mastered smuggler in the first place and waited all these years for the revamp only to find I'll be cut out of it and won't be able to slice anything but mid range slices, same as any respec dabbler 0400 smuggler.

Why should only those smugglers who are able to get a group powerful enough to get into these places be the only people who can benefit. What you really mean to say is this will be very lucrative for smugglers in large PA's with lots of people willing to help them get these components. I play mostly solo in a small rp guild. I lucked out once and got into a DWB group, but haven't had any luck since then. I've had a ticket to get into the corvette for months and have yet been able to get a group to do it. Most groups on my server are guild based and not too open to outsiders and most of my friends left in disgust long ago. I stuck with it because I had hopes it would be worth it, now I'm a very sad smuggler.

Now maybe I'm reading this all wrong, but it seems like being a master won't mean much in terms of slicing unless I quit my guild and join some large PA.

I think the high end components should be reasonably available to all master smugglers. I'm a master smuggler darnit. I have no problem with them being rare, but putting them in the DWB and the Corvette seems exclusionary to players who don't have the benefit of a large group or have lots of jedi friends. Furthermore, it would be more profession appropriate if the high end components were the result of something smuggleresque like smuggling missions. Or how about making smugglers able to hack, con their way into the place where the component is? Make getting it more a factor of how good a smuggler you are, not how big your guild is or how uber your friends are.

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QFE

1. How are containers sliced with the new system? No tools, no wires to cut...what's the process?

2. PLEASE make these loot drop components 'contraband'. In fact these are theIDEAL things to have confiscated should a scan and search fail. This idea would allow all players to loot the components but only Smugglers to safely transport them.

3. No camping! Make all levels of components drop off enough variety of mob that spawn randomly on all planets such that there is NO one place to be camped. I really HATE camping, I left AO because of it.