Smuggler Archive

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silversaber wrote:

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TsN-Wizzer wrote:

Personaly I hate PVP, the Griefing that goes along with it is a Pain in the butt. But I LOVE this Idea. If you do something Illegal you should have consequences! The Stormtroopers Patrolling right now are Not enough, we need Player Intervention, the best way for that is the BH's.

Besides, No Offense to the great and mighty SOE, but..... Look how often Scans happen now, How often do you think a Player name will go on the Terms, and Chosen, And Tracked Down, AND killed.

If You don't like it, Go Play the Sims.

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I love the pure contraryness of these two statements in this post.

It doesnt pass the sniff test, thats for certain.

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DRWolfe wrote:
Wow, we're back to that old PvE/PvP contraband discussion again, eh? I'm going to throw in my 2 creds, even though I don't totally agree with either side.

I am not a PvP player. I have been in a couple of duels, but they were nothing to speak about and I lost every one except the one time I was buffed and the other guy wasn't and he wanted to duel me just because he was bored. *shrug*

Still, I am a covert Rebel and understand the dangers involved, that I could in some way become attackable by PCs. Also, I will accept the possibility of my actions causing a PC Bounty Hunter coming after me. I choose to do the things that get me in trouble, so I should get in trouble.

However, it is my decision to accept these risks. Others may not want to accept those risks. Not sure how to satisfy everyone. I suppose a setting would have to be set on the character, sort of like the the Overt/Covert flag. PvE selected could cause increasing fines as visibility increases, and lowering faction so they are attacked by NPC Imperials. PvP selected would allow Bounty Hunters to come after the PC.

These are just ideas, and are probably not very good, but there is a solution. We just have to stop the big debate, acknowledge that some people want to PvP, some don't mind if they have to every so often, and some who don't want it at all. Take that thought and work on a solution rather than debating PvP and PvE.

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This is the first post I seen that actaully address's both playstyles and starts to come up with a solution that could benefit both sides.

I would have no problem with a "flag" system like used in reb/imp faction now cept for the "covert" smug faction would have to be made so you did not get TEF's that other PC's could see. Sure NPC's is fine but not PC's nor put on BH Terms.

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HalasterTheBlack wrote:

I also fail to understand why people despise PvP when you take into account that there is absolutely no penalty for dying in PvP. If a PvE bounty hunter came after you, ALL of your insured items would decay. Get killed by a BH d00d, and all that will be hurt is your pride - shamelessly walking around with illegal items in total disregard for your actions seems crime enough for that.

Because PvP costs you time. Time to find a doctor *again* to get buffed. To wait in line for that same doctor. And then to wait for the shuttle *again* to get to wherever you were going in the first place. Up to 30 minutes of time for someone who can play 2 hours per night, 2 nights per week is a significant impact, even if his armor won't degrade in the death.

I know, I know, back to "don't slice or spice". So what are Smugglers gonna do all day if nobody's slicing and spicing and therefore nobody needs their assistance to travel? Run missions? Go play a Single-Player game if that's what you want.

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Ternque01 wrote:
Well Caylin, if a player wants to really really mess up with the law and have a PvE bounty hunter sent after them.. well that is an option we can look into, but this PvE BH better be tough and pop outta nowhere just like a real one PvE BH's should be comparable to player ones in terms of difficulty. If you're at the top end of the criminal spectrum, where the hell are our harsh punishments for breaking the law if these PvE BH's aren't tough?

OHHHHHH I've got the greatest idea now!!!!! How about a message screen... this screen would pop up when your visibility reaches the BH level. This screen would say.

"You are now visible enough a criminal to warrant a bounty on your head. Select PvE or PvP below"

Problem solved for this whole discussion.... people don't want PvP.. fine. People who do... more content.
End of story, i suggest we propose this idea or something as effective to GM

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I like it And yes I agree PvE BH's must be tougher but not impossible to beat. A 350k HAM 90% resist NS walking BH is going to ruin the game just as fast as a PC BH.... But I do agree it needs to be tough... as far as "popping" out of thing air... depends on what you ment by that. If you mean it could find you on any planet and track you like a normal BH then yes I am for that. If you mean your crafting in your house (which is secure) and it pops from thin air in your living room... then sorry no

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RellikCro wrote:

This is the first post I seen that actaully address's both playstyles and starts to come up with a solution that could benefit both sides.

I would have no problem with a "flag" system like used in reb/imp faction now cept for the "covert" smug faction would have to be made so you did not get TEF's that other PC's could see. Sure NPC's is fine but not PC's nor put on BH Terms.

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Ternque01 wrote:
Well Caylin, if a player wants to really really mess up with the law and have a PvE bounty hunter sent after them.. well that is an option we can look into, but this PvE BH better be tough and pop outta nowhere just like a real one PvE BH's should be comparable to player ones in terms of difficulty. If you're at the top end of the criminal spectrum, where the hell are our harsh punishments for breaking the law if these PvE BH's aren't tough?

OHHHHHH I've got the greatest idea now!!!!! How about a message screen... this screen would pop up when your visibility reaches the BH level. This screen would say.

"You are now visible enough a criminal to warrant a bounty on your head. Select PvE or PvP below"

Problem solved for this whole discussion.... people don't want PvP.. fine. People who do... more content.
End of story, i suggest we propose this idea or something as effective to GM

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You know Ternque, you may have just stumbled onto a really good idea

I'm going to think about it a bit and work up some ideas...

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TsN-Wizzer wrote:

I will Expand, for the Small Minded. I Hate PVP, But I tollerate it because I love the game. I Have Joined and Played with the Rebels, and am Now playing as an Imp to try it out. If I don't want to PVP, I don't put myself in a Position to PVP. If I see Overts coming to an Area where I am running missions, I Leave.

The entire realm of PVP in this game is all Time and Place!! If you don't want to do PVP, Don't be Overt, Don't get a TEF while others are around. You can do almost EVERYTHING in the game without PVP!!!!! (the exception being PVP Battlefields for obvious reasons)

Now, That being said, I have Done PVP, By Choice, and It depends on who you are fighting as to how fun it is, I have fought some real Pains in the Zabrack, and I have also fought some really cool people.

I Love this game, I have been here since Beta,and been smuggler since the first month,I love this new direction the Devs are going, it's making the game more enjoyable for the Majority of the people.

And I have been participating in the discussions on the official SWG Forums LONG before Beta even came out! You remember the origionally proposed Outcast rules? I didnt think so!

And the statement that its making the game enjoyable for the Majority of players, when only a small percentage playsPvP is utter Bull **** and you know it!

So, Like I said before, If You Don't Like it, GO PLAY THE SIMS!

And I reply, if you want to PvP, GO PLAY PLANETSIDE!

That arguement is pure asinine , and you know it.

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Ryutek wrote:

You know Ternque, you may have just stumbled onto a really good idea

I'm going to think about it a bit and work up some ideas...

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Ternque01 wrote:
Well Caylin, if a player wants to really really mess up with the law and have a PvE bounty hunter sent after them.. well that is an option we can look into, but this PvE BH better be tough and pop outta nowhere just like a real one PvE BH's should be comparable to player ones in terms of difficulty. If you're at the top end of the criminal spectrum, where the hell are our harsh punishments for breaking the law if these PvE BH's aren't tough?

OHHHHHH I've got the greatest idea now!!!!! How about a message screen... this screen would pop up when your visibility reaches the BH level. This screen would say.

"You are now visible enough a criminal to warrant a bounty on your head. Select PvE or PvP below"

Problem solved for this whole discussion.... people don't want PvP.. fine. People who do... more content.
End of story, i suggest we propose this idea or something as effective to GM

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Now That is an interesting Idea that I would support..

Naturally I would choose the PvP everytime.. because chances are the PC BH will never find me.. and the NPC will probly have a 100% chance of popping out of no where one day..

On Playstyles.. I must apologise to the PvE crowd for my inability to understand why you have PvP so much. I play MMOs because single players games are too easy to defeat. The aspect of needing to outsmart and defeat a breathing, thinking person is what makes MMOs fun to me.

I do respect your playstyle though I cannot understand the reasoning for it, so I will support Ideas like ternques where people get a clear-cut option. At the same time please respect MY playstyle, because if I cannot interact with my fellow players on every level I can, social, combat, and any other,I may as well be playing my single player games.

(edited for spelling)

Message Edited by SBRD0C on 06-17-2004 11:25 AM

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Jhovial wrote:

2 Things, first I want to tackle what Ipseck said. Second I want to add some thoughts I have been having about PvP and this game.

I think the first difference is that when you are fighting a player, you have no idea if it is truely a "fair" fight. They could be using some bugged skill. They could have some cheesy win always macro running. It doesn't sit well with people to have an encounter where the odds aren't "equal." Second people often do not want to deal with the tells of say they loose "I pwned joo SUXXOR hahaha" or if they win "You $&^^@# cheated you ^&%$%* blah blah blah" This does happen and I can personally say that it is annoying. NPCs can not "cheat" and do not send you countless tells spouting their worth/saying how lame you are. Others could have personal reasons. They don't care for the some how different rush that you get from fighting someone that is intelligent. The individual reasons can very greatly. But the fact remains some people simply do not enjoy PvP.

1) there's no such thing as a fair fight. Everyone is different. Different equipment, different classes/professions, different skill levels, different play styles.
2) who cares if someone's being immature? you have the option to a) let it slide off your back knowing they're immature douchebags, b) /addignore, c) yell back at them calling them exploiting fotm 12yr old fatherless douchebags, or d) any combination of the above. Its only a problem IF YOU LET IT BECOME ONE. Once again, said pvp'ers are in control of their own feelings, not some 12yr old douche.
3) NPC's decay your items if they kill you, players do not. Tell me, which is griefing you more? a couple of words you can ignore, or losing condition on all of your equipment?
4) People don't have reasons for not liking pvp. You pretty well say it yourself. You re-itterated what I said with that whole 'they just don't like it for personal reasons' line of crud. That's not a reason. There's no answer to the whole WHY question in there whatsoever. Bottom line is, the have issues with controlling their own emotions. If someone gets all broken up about being called a wimp in an online game, thats a personal problem, not a game design problem.

That being said, onto my thoughts which I know from the get go some will cry to lynch me over.

Looking at the design given to us by GM there are many elements that could potentially draw people into a PvP encounter. Not only smugglers, but other people that use the smugglers wares run that risk. This is also one of the main areas that seems to be creating the most discussion in this thread. "Forced" PvP. Now if we look at the current deign of the game, It is a game that tried to provide a strong "PvE" content as well as a strong "PvP" content. However, I think most will agree, that the game has fallen short on both sides.

At the risk of ostracising some players would it be more beneficial for the developers to move forward focusing more on one type of content? In a perfect world it would be great to have beautiful systems for both PvE and PvP but that is a lot of energy and resources to truely do both correctly and provide deep meaningful content. By focusing on making the game more PvE or more PvP many of the arguments why a system wouldnt work sort of disappear. In this example if the game focused on PvP the fact that you get hunted while skilling up in the smuggler tree becomes a given and not so much of a bad thing. I am sure a proposal could be put together that focuses more on PvE but then those wishing to PvP would be left out.

Most of the successful games on the market tend to focus more on one type of combat then the other. Everquest is known for being PvE land. PvP there is often unbalanced and only marginally participated in. DAoC despite its rocky beggining focuses on PvP and is doing fairly well. UO I guess would be an example of both but it has sort of shifted its focus from one to the other. I'm thinking if SWG is to continue to grow and succeed it might just need to stop walking the fence and pick a direction. While this could ostracizes some players it could potentially draw in more players.

While much of this could belong in a different area of the forum I feel it is relivant here as we are looking a design proposal that is rich in PvP potential. If SWG had a clear deffinition of what it was meant to be, some of these arguments and at the end of the day (year hahaha) it would be much quicker to impliment.

Your thoughts?

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Ternque01 wrote:

Everyone just take a deep breath and look at my idea above If that doesn't make you feel warm and sunny... then you should.. umm go stand out in the sun

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