Smuggler Archive

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Ezis wrote:

if you don't want the risk of being attacked by a bounty hunter, DON'T DO THE MISSIONS. they never once said you had to do the missions to get xp, although i'd like to see the smuggler missions go along with the underworld negotiations line, that line is dead and useless. difficulty also has quite a bit to go along with visibility, don't you think the easier missions would be easier to complete without gaining visibility???

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Ethical decisions that effect the smugglers reputation (basically, the new smuggler missions would be XP based and focused on…well…smuggling So the smuggler would have to “smuggle” phat loot from one NPC to another without getting caught and if the smuggler chose to deliver the item, the get the XP. If they didn’t, well, it would be an XP hit, but they would keep the item…)

Keeping this in mind, missions will most likely be required to progress. It is also something most of us have been wanting for a long time. This is a very valid concern that must be addressed.

The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
:The Ghost with the Most:

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jseames wrote:

Just to clarify a misconception I've seen a couple of people mention, the difference between overt and covert is not PvP and PvE. No matter what your status with either faction, the simple fact is that if you're part of a faction, you're consenting to PvP, as was stated many times by the devs. You can still easily get a TEF and become open to attack from the opposite faction. The only way to stay completely out of the PvP environment is to remain neutral. Overt is full out PvP mode, covert is limited PvP, and neutral is solely PvE. I know this isn't exactly the issue of debate, but it just personally bugs me when people are misinformed or mistaken about these sorts of things. Just a little pet peeve.

So what you are saying is there is no way anyone other then someone that would like to PvP can enjoy the GCW aspect of this game? We were told this game would be for all playstyles including but not limited to non-PvP'ers and yes partaking in the GCW is part of the game and respecting my/our playstyle while doing it is something we are very concerned about. PvP'ers continiously disrespect our playstyle and label us as care-bears while we are trying to work with ways to respect all playstyles. It just makes me like the whole PvP playstyle even worse as they are unwilling and unabel to comphrehend we do not want to participate in any kind of PvP at all ever for any reason yet we want to enjoy the whole aspect of the game. And yes I have one character that is covert imp so I could do the theme parks but he has never once pvp'd and never done imp missions because they all have high risks of PvP so you are taking a huge part of the game away from not only me but alot of others.

As for the issue of visibility, I'd assume that you'd probably have to fail a few missions or keep a fairly large amount of pay/goods (the latter being an action youwillfully take and should rightfully be considered opening yourself up for PvP) to end up getting a bounty placed on your head. Perhaps if you happen to fail a mission, you have the opportunity to return to your employer (if an underworld figure, as I can't see the Alliance hiring out bounty hunters should missions be available from them, as I previously mentioned . . . you'd simply take a faction hit, ideally) to pay them off (an idea previously mentioned). After all, they could care less if their shipment actually made it or not as long as they got theirpayment or compensation for the lost goods if they were the intended recipient. After all, Han didn't get a bounty on his head until after a certain amount of time passed and he didn't pay off his debt to Jabba, which was the result of lost goods he was transporting. As someone stated before, the timeframe could start from immediately after the mission is failed for a period of about a week or two. This should give someone ample time to try to find some work to raise the money they need to pay off their debt in the event that they're short the credits at the time. An email could be sent to them immediately after the mission failure informing them of their situation. This sort of thing would allow those who want to avoid PvP the opportunity to do so while still facing a penalty of a different sort. This would still allow the smuggler who wishes to avoid PvP to still be able to progress reasonably quickly in the profession.

This still forces PvP onto a PvE profession. Yes force as unconsentual PvP, why? Because I am a neutral smuggler, I have done everything I can do to avoid PvP in this game upto this point but now you are saying my very profession MUST participate into a playstyle I personally find offensive and have absolutely no desire to play.

Also, in this situation, even a smuggler who wanted to aquire the unique crafting items by skimming a shipment and still avoid PvP could do so by simply paying the mission giver the entire expected pay (since the pay they receive from the goods' recipient is proportional to what they actually deliver) and their visibility would not increase. They would, in effect, be buying the goods just as any other individual would. The only difference is that those who don't mind risking a possible PvP encounter would be able to get them for free if they wished to take that risk.

So now your saying I might as well just give up being a smuggler... I mean just because I do not like PvP this profession obviously is not right for me. No, I believe in harsh penalities for crimes I commit but let them be PvE based as was promised from the start of the game... no since before beta.

Should a smuggler who wishes to avoid all PvP accidently gain a little visibility (and again, it is implied that just one instance of gaining small amounts of visibility wouldn't necessarily result in a bounty), if a decay rate is included they can simply lay low for a short time and have the visibility reduced. If they're the impatient, they could always hire out another smuggler (thereby incurring another monetary "penalty" of sorts) to lower their visibility via terminal slicing and choose not to do it themselves. Naturally, the proposal for this route is for a slight change in that particular smuggler ability to only put the smuggler doing the slicing to be immediately added to the terminal, and not the person who they're acting on the behalf of. After all, it's the smuggler doing the slicing that's in the direct wrong in that situation and the other person could simply be considered as disavowing any knowledge of the smuggler performing that task, making it appear as if it was simply of the smugglers own accord. Sure, the smuggler who wants to avoid all PvP would basically be restricted from using this skill since there is the risk of being immediately added to the terminal, but this doesn't limit their ability to progress in the profession, it just excludes them from a single slicing ability.

You again are disrespecting my playstyle by limiting my playbility on a profession I have chosen to be. How would you like it if I told you, you could no longer do slices because we are changing the system to a form that you just absolutely hate? A system that you feel so strongly against that it would ruin your gameplay, it would ruin all your fun, and it would ruin the game for you? Would you like that? Then why do you insist on doing it to PvE'ers? Go be a Jedi or Imp/Reb... they have lots of PvP opertunities to satisfy your killing spree.

As for the potential for everyone else gaining visibility, yes, they should be properly informed which decisions may lead them toward obtaining a bounty on their head. Like someone pointed out previously, though, this could easily be done via new loading screens, the players reading the patch notes, and perhaps even an in game email describing that particular new feature and giving proper warning. If people choose to completely ignore all three of those sources of information, then the fault then lies with them.

Oh so now do you not only want to ruin the game for PvE smugglers but hell lets just ruin it for everyone that plays. Do you not read the astrometrics that comes out? Like less then 1% overts (that would be PvP'ers btw) on the galaxy (thus the game) but you believe your playstyle is obviously way more important the the vast majority of players that play.

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IndySWG wrote:

The concern here is really for the neutral smuggler. A player who BY CHOICE is avoiding the PvP aspects of the game (some people really really really hate PvP .. just cause you like doesnt mean other do/should).

A player who is nuetral - AND HAS THUS ACTIVELY CHOSEN TO AVOID PVP - shouldnt be forced to endure it just to level the profession of his choice. (the exception of course being the Jedi ... that's the special case).

Now if a nuetral player makes actions that puts him on the BH terms...that is his fault. But those actions should not be required to level / play a normal profession.

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Ternque01 wrote:
Yea Ispeck I hear ya. While part of me wants to ensure that the populace is well informed that using contraband leads to PvP (like it should) and that they be given ample game structures to avoid PvP in case of a slip up (this needs to be done), another part wants me to just scream because of the failure to understand that "breaking the law for a long time" = "somebody comes to kill you".

If players are (A) well informed about it and (B) given tools that let them easily monitor and manage thier visibiliy so they can avoid PvP, I would refuse to listen to their cries. They will have all the tools they need not to PvP, and continuously walking around with illegal weapons and not choosing to be responsible for their actions isn't my problem. There is a law, they follow it or get killed.

I also fail to understand why people despise PvP when you take into account that there is absolutely no penalty for dying in PvP. If a PvE bounty hunter came after you, ALL of your insured items would decay. Get killed by a BH d00d, and all that will be hurt is your pride - shamelessly walking around with illegal items in total disregard for your actions seems crime enough for that.

Some people have been burnt out on PvP from other games where you could be thrust into PvP at any moment. In these games griefers lived and thrived like a neighborhood infested with crime. I understand why some HATE PvP. But like someone said... no one is putting a gun to their head and griefing them to use contraband. Illegal guns and drugs aren't squirt guns and candy bars. It is a choice to break the law, as long as the player base understands that breaking the law leads to PvP, I personally don't have a problem. There should be tools available for a person who wants to be careful to avoid PvP though. If a player is entirely commited to not participating in PvP, then they should be entirely commited to not using contraband.

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Soo, they first said, if you dont want PvP, dont join a Faction. I hated this, but was forced to accept it.

Now your saying, if you dont want to PvP, dont use contraband or be a Smuggler.

BS!!!

How much more of this game are you going to take away from the non-PvP players?

PvP should stay with Factions ONLY.

Stop trying to ruin the game for the majority of players!

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TsN-Wizzer wrote:

Ok, I finaly have a place to butt in,

First: Why is Jedi a Special Case? A Player works his way to become a Jedi just the way he (or she) would work his way to become any other profession.

Second: Think about the PVP your talking about here, These are PLAYER Bounty Hunter Missions, At any Given hour, how many BH's are online and Running missions, Add to that, How many want to Spend the Effort to hunt down another player that could concievably be on another planet, ADD TO THAT, The fact that, You can Pay off a Player. "I will double your Bounty money to leave me alone"

The PVP in SWG is Extreemly limited to begin with. You HAVE to be joined to a faction, and HAVE to be Overt (or TEF'd).

This just Sqeeks the door open a Tad bit more for VERY LIMITED PVP.

Personaly I hate PVP, the Griefing that goes along with it is a Pain in the butt. But I LOVE this Idea. If you do something Illegal you should have consequences! The Stormtroopers Patrolling right now are Not enough, we need Player Intervention, the best way for that is the BH's.

Besides, No Offense to the great and mighty SOE, but..... Look how often Scans happen now, How often do you think a Player name will go on the Terms, and Chosen, And Tracked Down, AND killed.

If You don't like it, Go Play the Sims.

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I love the pure contraryness of these two statements in this post.

It doesnt pass the sniff test, thats for certain.

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silversaber wrote:Soo, they first said, if you dont want PvP, dont join a Faction. I hated this, but was forced to accept it.

Now your saying, if you dont want to PvP, dont use contraband or be a Smuggler.

BS!!!

How much more of this game are you going to take away from the non-PvP players?

PvP should stay with Factions ONLY.

Stop trying to ruin the game for the majority of players!

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Nerj wrote:

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

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Nerj wrote:

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Daker-Naritus wrote:

Ah wrong. Absolutely wrong.

There is a BIG difference between items like guns and armor that you use ever single second of every single day and other items that you only occassionally need (maybe once or twice a month).

What I am saying is to NOT increase the penalties on the everyday items, and to bring down the house down (as in huge regiments of storm troopers) on the occassional items.

The net result is: You will not need a smuggler every single day, and smuggler will not be your "gun squire" (running along side you with your gun like in indentured servant). BUT, you may need a smuggler 1-2 times a month to smuggle something for you. With over classes of people, and less than 5% of players being smugglers, chances are that 1-2 times a month per person will provide smugglers with a steady stream of things to do.

Whatare thoseitems that you will need 1-2 times a month? I have no idea. That is why we are having this discussion is to propose ideas. If you don't like my ideas, at least try to propose something different.

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Ah! you mean like Doctor Buffs? Those are NOT ONLY every day but every 3 hours

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Yeah totally not the point....

I don't get a TEF or have a BH breathing down my neck for getting buffed. The point is that if you implement this system, where players have to constantly choose between slices/spices and forced PvP, 99.9% of players are going to choose to give up spices/slices to avoid PvP.

This system is trying to create a PC market for smuggling based on the faulty assumption that people will continue using spices/slices despite the danger. I think that is wrong...if you add forced PvP to the mix, it will have the opposite effect.

To Use Illegal Weapons, Armor, and Spice you need a Smuggler to move these items for you. Just like you need a Doc to buff you. Again large groups will have a need for a smuggler then just like they have a need for Doctors.

Let me also add this... I have seen several people equate the new system to the old, saying "yeah but you might get a TEF and be forced to PvP under the current system if you are scanned." That too is faulty logic.

First, the ONLY way the new system works is if you increase the frequency and sensitivity (% change of detection) of scanning.Otherwise, if scans are only occassional ads random, there will STILL be no PC smuggling market because you will never know when and where the scan will happen, so you will not seek a smuggler out to accompany you. Scans are going to have to be more frequent, more predictible,and more dangerous than they are now for the PC smuggling market to work, and GM implied that as his intent.

When and if scanning gets more frequent and sensitive, there is going to be a HUGE public outcry about forced pvp by the non-pvpers (the huge majority of players) just like there was when the contraband system was first proposed 3 months ago. The ONLY reason people are not complaining anymore is because of the minimal chance of being scanned. In the 2 months since the patch, I have been scanned a TOTAL of ONE time. Most other players have the same experience.

You say force people to seek out Smugglers by massively increasing SCANs, then say this will ruin the game. By having random scans people then have a game play choice, either to play it safe (get a Smuggler) or Not (risk Visability). Increasing SCANS to force people to find Sugglers, like you are suggesting, will cause an outcry.

If you increase this, there is going to be a huge player backlash against it. If you make it so that the checkpoints cannot be simply run through (forcing people to search out and pay a smuggler to accompany them through the checkpoint), people are going to say "screw it" and stop using spices and slices.

Second, this system does not stop at simple TEFs like the current system, but adds BH visibility. A TEF lasts 5 minutes. BH visibilitiy is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.Any BH that picks up the mission to kill you can attack you at any time, meaning that you will be constantly forced to PvP through a constant barrage of Bounty Hunters until (presumptively) you die. This goes far beyond a rinky dink TEF.

Visabilty is a long term process, it may be a few months before someone is visable or a few days. However, being able to remove someone from the BH trerminalsWillcreate an additional income stream.In addition, I believe that smgglers are more likely to wind up on the BH terminals, players will be attacked by Stromtroppers (PvE)

The system GM is proposing is a HUGELY different than the current system, and with either (1) force mass PvP (bad) or (2) force people not to use smuggling services (bad). It needs to be changed to reflect the reality of the player population. The system GM is proposing will NOT be the lose-lose situation However, whatYOU aresuggesting will cause a lose-lose.

The reality is: The huge majority of players do not want to PvP, and will do whatever it takes to avoid it.

That is their choice, since someone who does NOT use sliced eqipment will be at a disadvantage

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Actual need to engage in smuggling is what is missing currently from the game. Just because we have it easy now does not mean that during an IMPERIAL CRACKDOWN that there is no difference from day to day life. Those who break the law will need to be sought after and punished. In additon, the HIGH RISK should also have a HIGH REWARD (more mission, less death decay)

Message Edited by Nerj on 06-17-2004 12:46 PM

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Ok read over all the comments in here and Nerj I can sum up what you said in three words "Disrepsecting my playstyle". Why is it PvP'ers can not grasp the fact (are you all not reading what we are saying or is it that you really have no respect for your fellow players?) that us PvE smugglers (and PvE's in general) would LIKE harsher penalities for spice and slicing and the contraband flowing thru the system. I like the idea of not being able to sell it on vendors.. love it! I love the idea of feeling a danger when I enter a town or city. I love the idea that when I see guards or storm troopers I would be compelled to walk the other way. BUT, and this is where you all start to disrespect our playstyle, we want it in PvE form! Not PvP.

You, and other pro-PvP supporters, keep saying the same disrespectfull bs line on every post: "If you do not like it stop playing the profession you had since day one". No that is not the answer, that will only get a huge backlash from a largely PvE based game which will hurt all smugglers in the end. The solution is not to tell ppl to frig off if they dont like how it is turning out but to come up with a compromise and figure out a solution that will benefit both groups. This again is why having a mixed pve/pvp based playerset is a bad idea in the first place but that is done, we just need to find solutions.

As long as you are going to try to shove the PvP down my throat the harder I am going to work against anykind of PvP at all in any form. The faster the Pro-pvp base realizes that we need to find a compromsing solution the quicker we can work the details out.

Even if GM's vision was to go thru today as is.... the simple fact is the playerbase runs the game and the playerbase is 90% PvE, and they would protest till it got taken out completely. We have seen this with the artisian revamp and other patches put in. Live with that fact and come up with solutions to respect that fact.

Message Edited by RellikCro on 06-17-2004 11:05 AM

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Ipseck wrote:


In order to get busted with contraband you are likely a member of a faction, so it is in effect nearly the same argument.

Likely??? I am argueing that HAVE to be in a Faction to PvP. If one is not in a Faction, there should be NO chance whatsoever of being forced into PvP.

Instead of just saying its going to ruin the game for most players, how about you tell me WHY its going to ruin the game for most players. Educate me, instead of talking out your ass.

Ok, if you want it spelled out for you, only 5-10% of the playerbase participate in PvP according to SoE. That leaves the MAJORITY of players that hate PvP that this will ruin the game for.

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