Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
please please please, do not make the smuggler mission content/contraband only usable by smugglers (in your example it was a spice component). Please also include things that will enhance every crafters profession so that there is some diversity and competition in the market, as well as a real market for our skills (not just us helping ourselves).
Is the next revamp in line Wookiee Brawler or Princess?
Nerj wrote:
Ah! you mean like Doctor Buffs? Those are NOT ONLY every day but every 3 hours
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Ah wrong. Absolutely wrong.
There is a BIG difference between items like guns and armor that you use ever single second of every single day and other items that you only occassionally need (maybe once or twice a month).
What I am saying is to NOT increase the penalties on the everyday items, and to bring down the house down (as in huge regiments of storm troopers) on the occassional items.
The net result is: You will not need a smuggler every single day, and smuggler will not be your "gun squire" (running along side you with your gun like in indentured servant). BUT, you may need a smuggler 1-2 times a month to smuggle something for you. With over classes of people, and less than 5% of players being smugglers, chances are that 1-2 times a month per person will provide smugglers with a steady stream of things to do.
Whatare thoseitems that you will need 1-2 times a month? I have no idea. That is why we are having this discussion is to propose ideas. If you don't like my ideas, at least try to propose something different.
Yeah totally not the point....
I don't get a TEF or have a BH breathing down my neck for getting buffed. The point is that if you implement this system, where players have to constantly choose between slices/spices and forced PvP, 99.9% of players are going to choose to give up spices/slices to avoid PvP.
This system is trying to create a PC market for smuggling based on the faulty assumption that people will continue using spices/slices despite the danger. I think that is wrong...if you add forced PvP to the mix, it will have the opposite effect.
Let me also add this... I have seen several people equate the new system to the old, saying "yeah but you might get a TEF and be forced to PvP under the current system if you are scanned." That too is faulty logic.
First, the ONLY way the new system works is if you increase the frequency and sensitivity (% change of detection) of scanning.Otherwise, if scans are only occassional ads random, there will STILL be no PC smuggling market because you will never know when and where the scan will happen, so you will not seek a smuggler out to accompany you. Scans are going to have to be more frequent, more predictible,and more dangerous than they are now for the PC smuggling market to work, and GM implied that as his intent.
When and if scanning gets more frequent and sensitive, there is going to be a HUGE public outcry about forced pvp by the non-pvpers (the huge majority of players) just like there was when the contraband system was first proposed 3 months ago. The ONLY reason people are not complaining anymore is because of the minimal chance of being scanned. In the 2 months since the patch, I have been scanned a TOTAL of ONE time. Most other players have the same experience.
If you increase this, there is going to be a huge player backlash against it. If you make it so that the checkpoints cannot be simply run through (forcing people to search out and pay a smuggler to accompany them through the checkpoint), people are going to say "screw it" and stop using spices and slices.
Second, this system does not stop at simple TEFs like the current system, but adds BH visibility. A TEF lasts 5 minutes. BH visibilitiy is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.Any BH that picks up the mission to kill you can attack you at any time, meaning that you will be constantly forced to PvP through a constant barrage of Bounty Hunters until (presumptively) you die. This goes far beyond a rinky dink TEF.
The system GM is proposing is a HUGELY different than the current system, and with either (1) force mass PvP (bad) or (2) force people not to use smuggling services (bad). It needs to be changed to reflect the reality of the player population. The reality is: The huge majority of players do not want to PvP, and will do whatever it takes to avoid it.
Ryutek wrote:
Daker-Naritus wrote:
I think that those that are arguing this sort of thing are SERIOUSLY underestimating the number of players who have no desire to PvP. Look at the server numbers posted by the devs a month or so ago...only 5% orless of all players are running around overt, meaning that only 5% of the player population on any given night is probably pvping. Additionally from what I remember (someone can correct me on this if I am wrong) only around 50% of the server populations have declared a side.
Of the rest of the population, is there really going to be someone who cannot use standard items over sliced items? Can they get away with Doc Buffs and Food instead of Sppices? In all honesty the only people that I see having a problem with these changes are the people that already PvP, but not because of the possibility of a PvP encounter. They would have problems because there would be consequences to using illegal items finally.
And you miss the point....
If people can "get away" with using doc buffs and foods, they ARE NOT going to put up with the pvp annoyance of using spices and sliced items. As I said: "If all of these people who do not wish to PvP "simply don't use contraband items" what exactly are smugglers going to be smuggling for them? There won't be anyone left using contraband items, and smugglers will...not [be] creating a PC smuggling market."
If your rationale is "people can get away with using unsliced items" you are shooting yourself in the foot, because that is EXACTLY what they are going to do.
There needs to be a class of "regulated/illegal" items (that DOES NOT include spices and slices) that people occasionally need smugglers to move for them. That, in conjunction with NPC smuggling activities that provide required components for spices, should create a good market for smuggling. Requiring a smuggler simply to use spices and slices, however, will accomplish nothing.
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Nerj wrote:
Ah! you mean like Doctor Buffs? Those are NOT ONLY every day but every 3 hours
Daker-Naritus wrote:
Ah wrong. Absolutely wrong.
There is a BIG difference between items like guns and armor that you use ever single second of every single day and other items that you only occassionally need (maybe once or twice a month).
What I am saying is to NOT increase the penalties on the everyday items, and to bring down the house down (as in huge regiments of storm troopers) on the occassional items.
The net result is: You will not need a smuggler every single day, and smuggler will not be your "gun squire" (running along side you with your gun like in indentured servant). BUT, you may need a smuggler 1-2 times a month to smuggle something for you. With over classes of people, and less than 5% of players being smugglers, chances are that 1-2 times a month per person will provide smugglers with a steady stream of things to do.
Whatare thoseitems that you will need 1-2 times a month? I have no idea. That is why we are having this discussion is to propose ideas. If you don't like my ideas, at least try to propose something different.
Yeah totally not the point....
I don't get a TEF or have a BH breathing down my neck for getting buffed. The point is that if you implement this system, where players have to constantly choose between slices/spices and forced PvP, 99.9% of players are going to choose to give up spices/slices to avoid PvP.
This system is trying to create a PC market for smuggling based on the faulty assumption that people will continue using spices/slices despite the danger. I think that is wrong...if you add forced PvP to the mix, it will have the opposite effect.
To Use Illegal Weapons, Armor, and Spice you need a Smuggler to move these items for you. Just like you need a Doc to buff you. Again large groups will have a need for a smuggler then just like they have a need for Doctors.
Let me also add this... I have seen several people equate the new system to the old, saying "yeah but you might get a TEF and be forced to PvP under the current system if you are scanned." That too is faulty logic.
First, the ONLY way the new system works is if you increase the frequency and sensitivity (% change of detection) of scanning.Otherwise, if scans are only occassional ads random, there will STILL be no PC smuggling market because you will never know when and where the scan will happen, so you will not seek a smuggler out to accompany you. Scans are going to have to be more frequent, more predictible,and more dangerous than they are now for the PC smuggling market to work, and GM implied that as his intent.
When and if scanning gets more frequent and sensitive, there is going to be a HUGE public outcry about forced pvp by the non-pvpers (the huge majority of players) just like there was when the contraband system was first proposed 3 months ago. The ONLY reason people are not complaining anymore is because of the minimal chance of being scanned. In the 2 months since the patch, I have been scanned a TOTAL of ONE time. Most other players have the same experience.
You say force people to seek out Smugglers by massively increasing SCANs, then say this will ruin the game. By having random scans people then have a game play choice, either to play it safe (get a Smuggler) or Not (risk Visability). Increasing SCANS to force people to find Sugglers, like you are suggesting, will cause an outcry.
If you increase this, there is going to be a huge player backlash against it. If you make it so that the checkpoints cannot be simply run through (forcing people to search out and pay a smuggler to accompany them through the checkpoint), people are going to say "screw it" and stop using spices and slices.
Second, this system does not stop at simple TEFs like the current system, but adds BH visibility. A TEF lasts 5 minutes. BH visibilitiy is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.Any BH that picks up the mission to kill you can attack you at any time, meaning that you will be constantly forced to PvP through a constant barrage of Bounty Hunters until (presumptively) you die. This goes far beyond a rinky dink TEF.
Visabilty is a long term process, it may be a few months before someone is visable or a few days. However, being able to remove someone from the BH trerminalsWillcreate an additional income stream.In addition, I believe that smgglers are more likely to wind up on the BH terminals, players will be attacked by Stromtroppers (PvE)
The system GM is proposing is a HUGELY different than the current system, and with either (1) force mass PvP (bad) or (2) force people not to use smuggling services (bad). It needs to be changed to reflect the reality of the player population. The system GM is proposing will NOT be the lose-lose situation However, whatYOU aresuggesting will cause a lose-lose.
The reality is: The huge majority of players do not want to PvP, and will do whatever it takes to avoid it.
That is their choice, since someone who does NOT use sliced eqipment will be at a disadvantage
Actual need to engage in smuggling is what is missing currently from the game. Just because we have it easy now does not mean that during an IMPERIAL CRACKDOWN that there is no difference from day to day life. Those who break the law will need to be sought after and punished. In additon, the HIGH RISK should also have a HIGH REWARD (more mission, less death decay)
Message Edited by Nerj on 06-17-2004 12:46 PM
Player Driven Contraband Enforcement System Okay guys and gals, get ready for something revolutionary. Player Driven Contraband Enforcement System.
NPC scan teams won't work because of server strain. Well I say screw the NPC's. I say we have regular players automatically do NPC's job.
How? That's the easy part. We create a third pseudo-faction and call it the Criminal Faction.
This idea is also rediculously easy to implement, and cooler than hell
Okay, this Criminal Faction works like the existing two player factions (reb/imp). With this faction, you can be an overt or covert member and even get TEF's that flag you ass attackable by anyone who has declared residence withing a certain radius of an illegal activity. Fill in the perks for overt and covert members as you wish. Overt members of the Criminal Faction are attackable by BH's openly.
Here's how we get a contraband system: normal players get criminal TEF's for trading spices and sliced goods between one another. They can be attacked by anyone or by others under certain circumstances. Now the dealings of these goods will have to be carried out in private or in very trusted company. This will bring an illegal "feel" to contraband. BTW, you can also get this TEF by sparse random scanning by local authorities (Corsec, Feddub, etc...) NOT Imperial NPC's. We've got to have cops, not military personel doing this only. All players are subject to these scannings, and all players recieve a criminal TEF for trading illegal goods regardless of any other faction status they might posses (Imperial Colonel for example). Trading illegal good will now be very risky indeed! To fill this idea.. the two people who engage in an illegal trade do not recieve TEF's against eachother.
This is where the talents of a smuggler come in. Smugglers are capable of trading illegal goods in the open without them or their client recieving a TEF. Furthermore, overt Criminal Faction members are only attackable my players whose residence is declared around where that overt member is at the time. Overt Criminal Faction members also get to trade without getting the criminal TEF for them or their client. The one advantage smugglers get is being able to travel anywhere and get incredibly reduced chances of incurring the criminal TEF.
Overt members may requisition NPC thugs to fight with them like current faction pets. Hell why not make structures available to criminals just like bases for the two military factions. Have Casinos or Criminal Headquarters instead. Perhaps these structures allow its members perks within cities of a certain radius. These could be automatic improved mission payouts, or automatic improved profits from vendors (at the servers expense). Covert members recieve less of these benefits
To counter the Criminal Faction, you could also have a Townsperson Faction (not like the lame one we have now ). Players can become overt Townsperson Faction members within a certain radius of the city they are declared in. They can then attack all overt Criminals. Overt Townsperson status falls when the player leaves their "jurisdiction". Perhaps there could be a ranking system for each district much like the proposed Jedi ranking system. The top spots would be Sheriff, Deputy, and maybe a few Officers. The Sheriff would have the perk of being able to call down a scanning team on a suspected player every hour or so (so the server isn't strained).
Please note that these ideas are very rough. I believe it is wholely possible to implement this very easily, and this idea is awesome to say the least. If we are somehow told that getting a TEF flag by trading contraband is impossible, well, just scrap the whole damn thing. I however think it IS possible. Players now currently get TEF from trading with overt military faction members. There is still the problem of having to check every item going into and out of everyplayers inventory to do this, but I KNOW there is a code work-around. This idea doesn't require scanning at all. If illegal items are given an "Illegal Activity Mod" much like the way clothings give skill mods, the server can keep track of what a player's Illegal Activity Mod is when more illegal items are picked up or dropped of. The server currently can keep track of clothing skill mods - it can do the same for an Illegal Activity Mod. Simply tell the server to activate a criminal TEF when this Illegal Activity Mod is altered. It's that simple folks.
I will post this idea on the dev board so it actually gets read. Another note is that this idea can be stripped down to just a player driven contraband system - no factions involved. That way it can be easily "inserted" into the smuggler revamp without all the extra faction baggage attached to it. Tell me what you guys and gals think.
Ipseck wrote:
I have yet to see any good reason not to be thrust into the gcw if you are factionally aligned.