Smuggler Archive
Thread: HoC SWG Chat log
Ihareo wrote:
I wasn't trying to refute you. You have your opinions, I have mine.I was merely trying to share with you, and the other posters, why I am very eagerly looking foreward to the expansion.
You were trying to refute it.
I didn't say you're not entitled to your opinion. But wrong is wrong, whether it's couched as an opinion or not.
You can look forward to the expansion as much as you like. Personally, I'm curiously looking forward to seeing how bad their rendition of lava is. Hopefully they drop the idea of us all walking around on molten rock, but otherwise they look to be on the right track...
Just don't go thinking there's any reason this is being done other than as a cynical grab for money. They're scamming people into picking up the retail box of the game by adding content that is completely out of character for the rest of the game, and the original setting of the game.
If you want to rationalise it for them, that's your business. Some of us see right through it though, even if you can't, won't or refuse to do so.
.As for LA/SOE who does what, LA has to approve every game publish in development and has had to have approved everything that's gone into the game so far; that's how it works. I don't know which of the two companies were the driving force behind this expansion, but it could just as easily have been LA.
Anyway, thanks to Tiggs for popping in; one of the things I know Tiggs is very big on is not saying anything on a development issue unless she is extremely sure what she says is accurate, so I'm intrigued to find out what she's referring to about a Smuggler upgrade. Here's hoping Tiggs manages to tell us what she's referring to.
Mythor wrote:
Ihareo wrote:
I wasn't trying to refute you. You have your opinions, I have mine.
I was merely trying to share with you, and the other posters, why I am very eagerly looking foreward to the expansion.
You were trying to refute it.
I didn't say you're not entitled to your opinion. But wrong is wrong, whether it's couched as an opinion or not.
You can look forward to the expansion as much as you like. Personally, I'm curiously looking forward to seeing how bad their rendition of lava is. Hopefully they drop the idea of us all walking around on molten rock, but otherwise they look to be on the right track...
Just don't go thinking there's any reason this is being done other than as a cynical grab for money. They're scamming people into picking up the retail box of the game by adding content that is completely out of character for the rest of the game, and the original setting of the game.
If you want to rationalise it for them, that's your business. Some of us see right through it though, even if you can't, won't or refuse to do so.
Don't tel me what I was and wasn't trying to do. You aint me papi.
Besides, that, it's impossible to refute an opinion. the word 'refute' means to disprove. and an opinion is somthing that cannot be proven. Somthing that can be proven is a fact.
It is physically impossible to refure you when you say 'I don't like somthing'. Ok. Unless I can somehow prove you are lying, then I can't refute you, but that still wouldn't be refuting what you said, that would be proving you a liar (which I'm not saying you are, I'm just using that as an example).
WesBelden wrote:
What Sidious planned is debatable, you could argue he wanted his apprentice considerably less powerful after the Jedi were all but wiped out so that Vader would never be able to surpass and kill him (as is supposedly the Sith way). Your interpretation of things seems more likely and sounds better to me, but neither you nor I write this stuff
There is too much negativity towards the developers, it reminds me of school the students were always rude to their teachers, they completely forget that the developers are human beings with their own feelings, I'd hate to be a developer and read most of these boards. I fully support the way the devs are updating the game at the moment, such that they're focusing on the bugs in the game due to overwhelming public relations. This is the best thing the devs have done for the game. I fully appreciate that the devs are focusing on repairing the game, rather than making content for a selection of the games population.
I love the CU, one of the few, I do however wish that things weren't as simplistic, and there were a way to turn off the particle effects (no offense to the graphics department) as I prefer the realistic look. Though you don't hear me complaining about these things for post after post after post. I just wish there were more Smugglers like me...
P.S. Any chance of the YT-2400 in the next expansion? Pweease?
Uh, DESPISE? How can you say that and then turn around and say youre disapointed too? You make NO friends with a comment like that.
Balzan wrote:
You can constantly b*tch and moan about what we don't have, when/if it does come everyone else to dislike or maybe even hate us, like the jedi population. I despise the current smuggler population for the way their acting at the moment.
Like you all I was disappointed in the slicing upgrades, but I've learnt to take it on the chin.
WesBelden wrote:
What Sidious planned is debatable, you could argue he wanted his apprentice considerably less powerful after the Jedi were all but wiped out so that Vader would never be able to surpass and kill him (as is supposedly the Sith way). Your interpretation of things seems more likely and sounds better to me, but neither you nor I write this stuff
As for LA/SOE who does what, LA has to approve every game publish in development and has had to have approved everything that's gone into the game so far; that's how it works. I don't know which of the two companies were the driving force behind this expansion, but it could just as easily have been LA.
Anyway, thanks to Tiggs for popping in; one of the things I know Tiggs is very big on is not saying anything on a development issue unless she is extremely sure what she says is accurate, so I'm intrigued to find out what she's referring to about a Smuggler upgrade. Here's hoping Tiggs manages to tell us what she's referring to.
Oh! Maybe they have documents relating to a Smuggler Revamp! And they'll be giving you those documants shortly, and you'll get really excited and Tiggs will be really nice and type up the documents, and then she'll post them for all of us to read! Maybe in two parts, one on slicing and one on smuggler missions. Then we can discuss them, and refine them, and spend months going over them and adding ideas....
Just to have them ignore and the documents erased without a word of explination.
Again.
I'm taking a hint from some of the older smugglers that have passed on the the profanity filled forum in the sky. I won't HOPE for a revamp into its in test. And I wont' believe in then until it;s on live.
Your post has been read and passed on. I would like to add that I represent the Communities views all the time. It is my and TH's jobs to let the team know how you will react to changes. Sometimes changes need to go in that the team feels will help the games long term goals even if the community doesn't agree.
Tiggs wrote:
But Tiggs... if the community doesn't agree with what's done with the game, they quit. (As I finally did last Saturday, after being with this game since June of 03. Sept. 7 is my last day.)
Without the community, there's no need for the team to have long-term goals for the game, as there will be no one here playing the game. Unless the long-term goal is constant high turnover of the player base.
Message Edited by RontoMike on 08-30-2005 05:52 AM
MISTagent01 wrote:
Yeah, I'll repost my original post too, since we got a bit derailed there:
Tiggs:
I'd love to see an Astromech stats where you guys tell us what percentage of those 1 million copies of SWG sold are still ACTIVE subscriptions. You can sell a million copies of anything, but it's subscriptions that really tell a story.
SOE and LA are surely baffled that the most beloved franchise in the history of film isn't doing 1/8th of the business that a generic MMO like WoW is...the turnover rate is so high for this game that it's probably confused all of you...why hasn't SWG performed the way it SHOULD? The simple fact of the matter is this: you can NOT implement an Alpha class into an MMO. It never works, because over time, everyone will have attained that Alpha class (with the exception of people purposefully trying NOT to,) and the game becomes heavily unbalanced and nowhere near "fun." Yes, you looked the other way when it came to Jedi, and I have no problem with that. It's the fact that they remain an Alpha class that has sucked the heart and soul out of this game. Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths quit everyday because there are less and less players to craft for, since Jedi don't wear craftable armor and craft their own weapons. Entertainers have left in droves because they have no place in the GCW, and have been far removed from the rest of the playerbase. Everyone else (except BH) are cancelling because for the most part, they're treated like annoying flies on a hot summer day.
If SOE and LA only realized that if they stopped directing most content towards Jedi, and subsequently spread out that extra attention to EVERY NON-JEDI profession, the entire game would flourish again. Do you realize that resources being used right now on the FRS system could be used to re-build the GCW, give smugglers smuggling, re-energize the Entertainer professions, and possibly fix so many of the bugs still plaguing crafters?
I know it's just your job to relay information...but as Community Director, you're supposed to be on OUR side, not theirs. You need to want to help us, not just relay one way and not the other.
I'm aware you have other posts to read, but if you do read this, relay it to someone that has some common sense and can do something about it. You weren't around when this game first launched, so let me paint a picture of my server for you:
Theed was a bustling commerce city...people were hawking their wares, dancing, laughing, dueling, and having a rollicking good time. Cantinas were packed with beautiful Entertainers of every race, shape and size...along with scoundrels, Stormtroopers, and drunks. People grouped up and stuck together in the wilderness, and you ALWAYS took a Scout or a Ranger with you. We lived our own Star Wars saga. We created our own personas, our own histories, and it all blended into this wonderful, magical experience that I will always remember.
That magic is gone now, but I'd pay 50 bucks a month to have it back.
/tiphat
Wow...as a player since day 1 I have to say your post is right on the money....well said indeed.
Angamarth wrote:
Fernas wrote:
Sometimes changes need to go in that the team feels will help the games long term goals even if the community doesn't agree.
you opened the gate, and i'm stepping through. do tell us about these longterm goals. we, the players, should really have an opportunity to approve or disapprove of them.
You want to know why they don't tell us long term goals anymore?
Landlubber wrote:
Whoa... am I the only one who's had a serious deja vu feeling right now?
The point is, we heard it all before, but when are you (meaning SOE, not you personally Tiggs) going to deliver? That's the problem, you see: we've had so many broken promises that there's hardly anyone around that will take the above statement seriously. At least I know that I'll believe in it when I see it, not one second sooner.
Perfect example. They say, "This is where we'd like to go," and someone wirtes it in stone and starts screaming, "Liar!" when things change. As often as that happened, it's no wonder they made the decision not to release any information until they were positive it was coming out.
You know what? I agree with you, and that's also why I think that Tiggs and TH should be more careful with what they are promising, and the way they are promising it.
Yeah, there will always be those that take even the usual disclaimers that "in MMORPGs, things can change" as hard promises and will start screaming when what was announced doesn't get delivered at whatever time they deem appropriate.
However, I'd like to bring up a few points:
1) yes, in MMORPGS things change, development plans shift, things (like exploits and game-breaking bugs) can come out of the blue and take priority over other stuff that's been in development for a long time. Most people see that and appreciate it. And yet I submit to you that SOE have used that excuse far too often - unless I'm very much mistaken it is the impression of a lot of people (it certainly is my impression) that they've taken that "Things change" spin way past its limit of tolerance.
In a way, SOE almost gives the impression of someone suffering from Attention Deficit Disorder. In a huge project like this, you ideally need long-term plans. And you better stick to these plans and have a damn good reason for changing them. That SOE sees the necessity to change their plans so often (and I'm sure they don't do it lightly) seems to suggest that these plans aren't very well thought out to start with.
2) which brings me to another point: they never let us know about their long-term plans. "This is where we'd liketo go", as you put it. Well, where do theylike to go? Do they know? And if they do, why aren't they telling us? Because they are afraid they'll have to change their plans and will get flamed when they do? That doesn't exactly suggest a lot of confidence in their own planning, does it? See point 1)
"As often as that happened, it's no wonder they made the decision not to release any information until they were positive it was coming out."
3) In the past, quite a few of the announcements were phrased as definite promises. And even now Tiggs states that "The smuggler upgrade will come", not that "We'd like to do a smuggler upgrade". Even without a date (and it's understandable that they don't want to commit themselves in that way), that sounds like a promise to me. And that was really all I was trying to say: we have heard this PROMISE before, many times, but it has yet to be kept. There's a thread around here on the smuggler forum (from a few weeks ago) that lists every promise and announcement regarding smugglers since the game started. I suggest you look it up if you don't know about it. Makes for quite an interesting read.
And the scary thing is that I've seen just such a thread on the entertainer boards as well months ago. I wonder how many other profession boards have them.
from_beyond wrote:
Mmhmmm, you just came in here to flame Tiggs? Trust me, we have plenty of time, experience, and oppurtunity to flame Tiggs on our own. We don't want or need flames now. We want and need answers.
And apparently better gradeschool grammer teachers.
Landlubber wrote:
There's a thread around here on the smuggler forum (from a few weeks ago) that lists every promise and announcement regarding smugglers since the game started. I suggest you look it up if you don't know about it. Makes for quite an interesting read.
WesBelden wrote:
Anyway, thanks to Tiggs for popping in; one of the things I know Tiggs is very big on is not saying anything on a development issue unless she is extremely sure what she says is accurate, so I'm intrigued to find out what she's referring to about a Smuggler upgrade. Here's hoping Tiggs manages to tell us what she's referring to.
Which is very odd, since an ACTUAL Dev posted recently that an overall upgrade wouldn't happen.
Either Tiggs missed the memo, or there is new information.
In either case, I'll believe it not only when it makes it to the patch notes, but when I'm actually playing it in game. We've had over two years of lies about it; yes, lies - you can only pull the "development needs change" card so many times before you either should be let go because you have horrible time/project management skills or because you outright lied about something you never had on the plate.
It's amazing what people get away with in the game industry...
AO