CUEmu - Thread Posts

Zeon_Zaku

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:43 am

LordMaxx wrote:

Pistoleers need a revamp more than anyone...

Lol. Real smart to say that in the Smuggler board.
Considering the new pistols you've been given (though they're not that great), you have been getting more love then Smugglers have ever since SWG launched.

NDegwin Tze'Midak N
(Gorath) Smuggler/Commando/Rebel Space Pirate Ace
Captain of the Tokyo Mew Mew
"This flag stands for freedom. I live for what it stands for!"
(~Tze'Midak Family Biography~ * ~Degwin's Smuggling Site~ *~Blue Banshees~)

01201986

Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:57 am

#15

LordMaxx wrote:

Pistoleers need a revamp more than anyone...

I used to be a triple master, then I dropped pistols cuz TKM makes pistoleer kinda useless, except with pistols u have a wider range of damage types. but anyway. Maxx I do not fault u for saying this, after all, u r the pistoleer coor, I would be surprised if u said anything different. (even tho, having played both, i think smuggler is in more need)

____________________________________________
Allanon Ordo - Cancelled
In memory of OoC, the greatest guild ever...
Halls of Crevasse - Keren, Naboo 3604, 3403
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SBRD0C

Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:33 pm

#16

Zeon_Zaku wrote:

LordMaxx wrote:

Pistoleers need a revamp more than anyone...

Lol. Real smart to say that in the Smuggler board.
Considering the new pistols you've been given (though they're not that great), you have been getting more love then Smugglers have ever since SWG launched.

Now why argue over who needs it more... we all know Smugglers have been waiting longer

But that doesn't matter.. pistoleer is getting thier love right now with the Combat Upgrade-Revamp-Balance-Thing.

Or at least we can hope so

Colonel Emitt 'Doc' Brown (Starsider)
Master Smuggler | Master Pistoleer | Commando
Interplanetary Shipping Co. Located Crystal Hollow Dantooine (-6833, 4750)
Vendors Deal in Weapon, Droid, and 'Special Shipments'

/Target SOE; /CLAP

MISTagent01

Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:17 pm

#17

LordMaxx wrote:
It has never been my intention to diminish Smugglers or Bounty Hunters. The unfortunate truth is that Pistoleer by itself is a very weak profession. It takes the Accuray, Speed Mods, and Specials from both BH and Smuggler to really make us into something powerful.

I completely agree; however, couldn't it be said that the same is true of BH needing Pistoleer and our DF treeto make them something truly worthy of standing against a Jedi, and Smuggler needing lines of Pistoleer and BH to really compete in PvP? We are all reliant on eachother, and that's why we're allowed to master more than one profession, to truly customize and add depth to our characters.

BHs get true pistol speed mods and some VERY good specials. And Smugglers also get some Very nice specials. We the pistoleers with no hybrid addons are left with a very short list of actual working and worthwhile specials. Stopping shot is a joke if you dont have the BH speed mods, we are mainly left with Health Shot 2 a moderate damage pool specific shot, and Fan Shot a moderate damage cone shot. Multi-target pistol shot is nice too, but if you dont have the speed mods of a BH its not really worth it.

Yes, we have two nice specials: Last Ditch and Low Blow (which almost always never works in PvP.) However, Pistoleers and BHs get something we have never even dreamed of....skill mods. I agree that Pistoleer is in some dire need of more specials (as are all of the Elite combat professions, to add diversity.)

It has always been my intention and my purpose to make pistoleer a Strong standalone profession...

As it has always been our intention and purpose to make Smuggler theMartiniof SWG: Smooth going down but with enough power to knock you on your arse if you're not paying attention.

I dont even want to take anything from the Hybrids (except maybe some speed mods to help us) but that would be up to the Bounty Hunters to be concerned over. Pistoleers need a revamp more than anyone...it really hasnt been noticed as a broken class because most people usually take BH or Smuggler to supplement the fact that we really have no power on our own. Carbines could be said to be in the same crowd, but they got a nice special revamp and have several Very nice working specials, even if their speed mods are worst than ours. So I think they have a leg up (no pun intended) on us. And Riflemen...well they are the King right now because mind is where its at...

Right, that is all completely true. I think, though, that the CU would certainly change the Rifleman class to be quite a bit slower...since that's really how it's supposed to be. Rifleman should NOT be able to shoot Strafe 2 over and over again quicklywith a T-21. Here's to hoping Rifleman keep their power shots, but slow down quite a bit.

So my statement was mainly to emphasize how the pistoleer class is NOT very playable in its current state unless you take one or even both of the hybrids that add to its ability.

Right, and neither is Smuggler, if you want to take part in PvP.

If I offended you I am sorry, but my position is locked in stone. Pistoleers need help and we want in the pistoleer trees not from other sources.

As do we. I certainly don't want to have to master a profession I don't give a crap about (TK, Pistoleer) so I can be a decent smuggler...no offense. I want to Smuggle. I hear what you're saying though; it's almost like us having to master Dancer so wecould get smuggling mods. Totally irrelevant to your profession. I think everyone wants theirelite class to be something special and unique, and also retain the ablity to be a stand alone powerhouse in its own right. Thank you very much for coming here and clearing things up, I know you caused a few ruffledfeathers by saying that "Pistoleers need a revamp more than anyone," but I think every profession thinks that, and they are all right. This whole entire game needs a massive facelift, and hopefullythe CU will be the beginning of it.

V E E L A "her royal hawtness"
I am Jack's Smirking Revenge. I am Jack's Ignored Profession.
Theed was a bustling commerce city...people hawked their wares, danced, laughed, dueled, and had a rollicking good time. Cantinas packed with Entertainers of every race, shape and size...along with scoundrels, Stormtroopers, and drunks. People grouped up and stuck together in the wilderness, and you ALWAYS took a Scout or a Ranger with you. We lived our own Star Wars saga. We created our own personas, our own histories, and it all blended into this wonderful, magical experience that I will always remember...

That magic is gone now, but I'd pay 50 bucks a month to have it back.

Editor's Note: The author of the above post has quit giving SOE her money. She suggests you do the same, because this game will never be what you want it to be.

Nicolas_Frost

Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:58 am

#18

I don't mean to sound rude, but instead of asking for more mods plus more skills how about asking for:

Balanced mods and working skills?

Balanced mods? Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?

Well, we all realize that Riflemen cap on speed while Pistols don't, and don't even get started on the carbineers. So, here's my proposal.

Cap Master Gunfighters on speed.
Cap Master Rifleman on Accuracy.
Now, make the difference from Accuracy to Speed the same on both sides. In other words, if the Master Gunfighter is at Speed cap, and his accuracy is 50 under, then make the Rifleman's Speed 50 below his accuracy cap. This gives room for both to improve through SEAs, foods, and whatever else the devs wanna throw in the mix.
For Carbineers, make sure they're midrange. At Master Carbineer, they should come 30-20 under the cap on both, because Carbines should be a happy medium between speed, accuracy, and damage.

Working skills? What are those? /scratchhead

An example would be Disarming Shot. When you first qualify for it, you're like, "Kickass! This'll be so cool!" When you first use it, you're like, ".... well, now I feel like a limp penịs."
Make it potentially *disarm*(as in un-equip the weapon) your opponent, plus deal some damage(no more than 50 points, and that's in the extreme case of a critical hit on the weapon) to said weapon. Then add a timer like for being delayed, so that it can't be continually used. This would be usefull in PvE(NPC keeps blasting you? Make him stop!) and PvP(people may not be so quick to use that Uber Krayted T-21 if they run the risk of it being hit directly and decayed faster).
Maybe fix Multi-Target shot so that it works if a potential target is behind a wall. How to fix that? Don't consider a MOB you "can't see" as a potential target.

There's more I could go into, but that's how I feel Gunfighter should be taken care of.

Oh, and maybe the Devs should change the name *back* to Gunfighter, Pistoleer just sounds, wrong... somehow.

Note: Numbers used are ones pick out of air.

Message Edited by Nicolas_Frost on 01-13-2005 06:51 AM

Jaecob Maragi
Babelonian Militia Captain
Master Smuggler and Alliance Pilot
Captain of the LongShot(2)
THE Official Smuggler Forum Smartass!
The prices of my services are based on "tolerance". The more I have to tolerate you, the more you have to pay me.

LordMaxx

Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:04 pm

#19

Nicolas_Frost wrote:
I don't mean to sound rude, but instead of asking for more mods plus more skills how about asking for:

Balanced mods and working skills?

Balanced mods? Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?

Well, we all realize that Riflemen cap on speed while Pistols don't, and don't even get started on the carbineers. So, here's my proposal.

Cap Master Gunfighters on speed.
Cap Master Rifleman on Accuracy.
Message Edited by Nicolas_Frost on 01-13-2005 06:51 AM

Isnt "Cap Master Gunfighters on speed" More mods? Im asking for more speed for pistoleers and fixed/working specials I dont think that is too much to ask for, do you?

Im not really asking for MORE skills...I just want some working ones...we have 3 shots that currently do what they are suppose to do without being completely redundant. Right now we are only a damage dealing profession, by that I mean the only thing we can do is cause damage, no shot of ours can cause states or do anything to a character except healthshot1/2 which causes a laughable bleed and Pistol Melee Defense 1 which can KD, but if you are close enough to do that then you are about to get your head chopped off. If the only thing we can do is cause damage, then that damage needs to be enough to make us effective.

No need to drag this all out. we all want the CURB to work and it will be up to me, wes, and the beta testers to make sure that both our professions come out well.

Maxx Wolfe
"I...I...I...I...Im not your steppin' stone!" - The Monkees
Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU!
Chilastra/Valcyn/TC

ana-mo-cara

Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:03 pm

#20

Well I see a few issues here but the number one, and I think alot of people fail to see this. Is that while any profession wants to be stand alone we must also keep our eye on the skillpoint use. Isnt the pistoleer requirment just marksman pistols four and then you go right into your tree. That being said pistoleer is quite cheap skillpoint wise. Do we really want pistoleers standing toe to toe with a bounty hunter just on the skillpoint value? Personally I do not like that idea not because my alt is a BH, but I generally dislike the mentality that player a can put in marginal skillpoints towards combat, and player b unloads a large amount. Then player a owns player b ninety percent of the time. We have seen alot of this in the game up until this point. A relatively cheap profession rideing riot over relatively expensive professions.

If you were to make pistoleer standalone. The problem is obvious you just make it the next fotm. Since it is so relatively cheap. Perhaps if he wants to push for pistoleer being standalone. Maybe he needs to push for a change in the skillpoint cost. Perhaps requireing master marksman to do pistoleer.

Perhaps he could push for a more concise move system. Not the knockdowns and stuns of past, but a move or two that would make the pistoleer atleast have a niche purpose. Perhaps a burning eyeshot, or a pistoleer sprayshot, both would come in handy, and make the pistoleer profession more enticeing.

Perhaps he should push for a few more weapons certs. Being a weaponsmith I can attest that the DX2 pistol is generally unfair. Being overly complex and not all that impressive stacked against the scatter pistol. Maybe a fwg7/fwg9 sprinkled in the tree,

There is something to be said about altering the mods. If you simply cripple up the bh and smuggler your truely hurting two professions for the sake of one. I think he should angle for makeing pistoleer more different from bh and smuggler, and more a creature of its own color

I also think it might be a little singleminded that he has put pistoleer at the top of the neglected list.

CH is totally broken being that a pet can be killed in one or two hits. Since they have next to armor to speak of and the specials are totally broken.

Scout novice is just as valid as master.

Medic with the excess of buffs few people even bother to novice this let alone go up in it unless they are going to be a doctor or combat medic.

Ranger well it has a cool name.

Add on all the professions that still have broken specials, and totally worthless lines in them. Underworld anyone.

Is pistoleer the most desperately in the need of aid. Its relatively cheap. It can purposefully hybridize with others. Somehow that dosent strike me as that which is in most desperate need of attention. Things may not be great or good in the pistoleer profession, but they are definately not the worst.

Datink_Nieleft

Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:46 pm

#21

ana-mo-cara wrote:

Well I see a few issues here but the number one, and I think alot of people fail to see this. Is that while any profession wants to be stand alone we must also keep our eye on the skillpoint use. Isnt the pistoleer requirment just marksman pistols four and then you go right into your tree. That being said pistoleer is quite cheap skillpoint wise. Do we really want pistoleers standing toe to toe with a bounty hunter just on the skillpoint value? [Can you say Rifleman?? Do you even do combat in this game??? Hello TKM'S?!?!]

Personally I do not like that idea not because my alt is a BH, but I generally dislike the mentality that player a can put in marginal skillpoints towards combat, and player b unloads a large amount. Then player a owns player b ninety percent of the time. We have seen alot of this in the game up until this point. A relatively cheap profession rideing riot over relatively expensive professions. [You don't like the fact that you "have" to get Smuggler to be a good Weaponsmith either.....please. Pistoleer's are supposed to be the fastest with pistol and yet it's easier to cap with a rifleman than it is a Pistol! It's okay to stick up for your Profession...it's NOT okay to do it uninformed!!!!]

If you were to make pistoleer standalone. The problem is obvious you just make it the next fotm. Since it is so relatively cheap. Perhaps if he wants to push for pistoleer being standalone. Maybe he needs to push for a change in the skillpoint cost. Perhaps requireing master marksman to do pistoleer. [Again....look at the other Ranged Master professions...*breath in the love,...breath out the the anger*.....for the love of God read up on things you don't know about]

Perhaps he could push for a more concise move system. Not the knockdowns and stuns of past, but a move or two that would make the pistoleer atleast have a niche purpose. Perhaps a burning eyeshot, or a pistoleer sprayshot, both would come in handy, and make the pistoleer profession more enticeing. [Wow...an actual good idea amongst the rest of the stuff....]

Perhaps he should push for a few more weapons certs. Being a weaponsmith I can attest that the DX2 pistol is generally unfair. Being overly complex and not all that impressive stacked against the scatter pistol. Maybe a fwg7/fwg9 sprinkled in the tree, [Sounds like your Weaponsmith roots coming out]

There is something to be said about altering the mods. If you simply cripple up the bh and smuggler your truely hurting two professions for the sake of one. I think he should angle for makeing pistoleer more different from bh and smuggler, and more a creature of its own color [RING RING RING....This just in...Pistoleer is one of the CORE RANGED PROFESSION'S....Smugglers and BH's are HYBRID professions. Wrap your brain around that one for a bit]

I also think it might be a little singleminded that he has put pistoleer at the top of the neglected list. [What the heck do you expect...he's the pistoleer correspondant and he is DOING his job!!! Talk about single minded....look at all the posts you put out....me, me, me,....ffs!]

CH is totally broken being that a pet can be killed in one or two hits. Since they have next to armor to speak of and the specials are totally broken. [Did anyone deny this? Do you remember when they got nerfed? Prolly not]

Scout novice is just as valid as master.

Medic with the excess of buffs few people even bother to novice this let alone go up in it unless they are going to be a doctor or combat medic. [What?]

Ranger well it has a cool name.

Add on all the professions that still have broken specials, and totally worthless lines in them. Underworld anyone.

Is pistoleer the most desperately in the need of aid. Its relatively cheap. It can purposefully hybridize with others. Somehow that dosent strike me as that which is in most desperate need of attention. Things may not be great or good in the pistoleer profession, but they are definately not the worst.

[It's no wonder that nearly half your posts are 1 starred,....you haven't a clue as to what you post. Try to think and study on something before you inject your great "ideas"]

*rollseyes* How long have you been playing??? Yeesh...

GostNDajtink
Original Smuggler
My bowels are loose and I'm a little gamey Want some toast?

JediArashi

Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:49 pm

#22

Datink, for someone who is so blatantly condescending you sure don't offer much in the way of contructive criticism either do you?

It's fine to be sarcastic and flip, but not if you can't offer any useful comments to go with it. You belittle and berate about lack of knowledge and comprehension of this game, yet you make no effort to correct him in any of his statistics or details.

One star for you for bad form. Prove to me you know more then ana-mo-cara, don't just tell me you do.

I think this discussion has been good, even if LordMaxx has seemed to have to be on the defensive. I think it is admirable and worthy of respect how much LordMaxx wants to push for his profession above all others. He knows what his job is, and he's going for it. It's his style, and I think it is a good onearound these forums.

One of the points to consider is that in the CURB we'll see the"melting pot" effect of specials anyway, so a lot of the focus needs to be more on mods, certs, weapons, and where specials fall in the skill trees to be the most balanced and effective. If Pistoleers will be able to Head Shot, if they pick up some rifleman boxes, with a pistol...then the immediate impact will be that even if the specials available to a strict Pistoleer aren't to their flavor they will be ablt to pick up boxes from other professions to enable them to use specials they like or that fit their play style or even a FoTM. What will make these decision more interesting will be how all the mods and certs will fit in so that one would have to balance dabbling and sticking to their core profession.

I still think we will see aMP with MS and a sprinkle of the other marksman classes be the ultimate pistol wielder; not just a straight MP. I also think that is a good thing, as long as the core of being that is the MP, and not another profession that uses pistols. Having a MBH right now be the core because they get all thosespeed mods and some good specials doesn't fitat all. Make MP the core, and all hybrids or marksman classes in general (once the CURB hits) be useful in creating different types of MP. Hell I'd even like to see some cross breed in the titles. Like a MP that has rifleman trees be able to be titled "Headhunter" or something, and a MP that has carbineertrees be a "Desperado" somethign that would allow a blending of professions to show that they area core profession that has focus in a certain other profession.

Kinda got off track there, butyou get the jist of it.

Arashi - The one and only "Agent Zero"

Proud member of the greatest community around....Smuggler for life!

ana-mo-cara

Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:57 pm

#23

Okay time to hit every point you went flipsy over.

1. All ranged professions are generically the same. The speed and ranges are different, and each class has a favorite pool to work off in general. The point is you got three professions useing the pistol, and in their approach they are all pretty much the same. It would be better for pistoleers to be signifigantly different from smugglers in bh. Instead of focusing just on mods which odds are the CU will do. For instance perhaps pistoleers could have more self applied states. Something smuggler and BH do not do. A state to prevent burns or a state to prevent disease or dizzy would be good examples. A creature of a different color.

2. Riflemen and TKA are my point. Too super professions with little reguard to skill cost. Thats the whole point I was makeing. Doing the same with pistoleer is just another FOTM phenomena which pretty much ravages the core pistoleer community.

3. Pistoleers could desperately use a few more weapons certs. For one republics and dx2s are not only fashioned from capped resources, but they require excessive amount of parts. That disadvantages pistoleers. A bounty hunter can get five krayt scatter pistols while a pistoleer can get only 1 dx2, and these guns are not far different. When they altered the scatter schematic they should have altered the DX2 schematic. Quite frankly I feal the pistoleer should have access to atleast one better pistol to work with. I also feal smuggler should get one new pistol cert. Considering that smuggler has two lines of pistol xp.

4. This has nothing to do with my template. It was a commentary about pushing for makeing more FOTM. Rather then establishing point parody. Point parody is good. It makes for more dynamic play, and a more varied professional population. That means if you donate 200 points to combat and I donate 200 points to combat. It comes down to reasonable skill on my part to win. If I spend 200 points on combat and you spend 96 I should require less skill to win. Right now thats far from the case in the game. Its important to keep in mind professions need to be balanced in reguards to the points used.

5. Hipeing ones profession is good saying a profession needs some help is good. Comeing out and saying our profession needs first crack, because its the worst in the game. Thats overstateing the case. When there are professions in the game that are terribly broken, and others that have been utterly devalued by the state of the game. CH is so increadibly broken in the game now no ch in their right mind will dare use a pet in pvp. Medic is so devalued that its becomeing harder to find anyone who even invests in novice medic. A worthwhile skill in the game that was obliterated by buffing, and super heavy composite.

There is a difference between being hyped about doing right by your profession, and crossing a fine line and saying we are the worst off. Its like a fat women going to somalia and saying in the middle of a refugee camp I am hungry lets go get something to eat. Its poor taste. I beleive he could have said we have issues in our profession, and not saying something like here is why we need more attention then everyone else. Pistoleer as a profession might not be the best, but atleast it can get by. Alot of professions arent even that well off. Some professions in this game are in such a poor state that they are approaching extinction. I am wondering exactly how many master scouts you see running around.

cpz

Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:09 pm

#24

ana-mo-cara wrote:

Its like a fat women going to somalia and saying in the middle of a refugee camp I am hungry lets go get something to eat

Hmmm, certainly an interesting turn of phrase...

Facts

Pistoleer is broken. The majority of us here know that because I'd guess smost of us are or have been Pistoleers - ranged generally sucks, but Rifles far outgun Pistols and Carbines andits best shots lie outside of the Pistoleer tree

Combat is unbalanced, hence the CURB

Therefore the Pistoleer rep highlighting how the above facts impact on his Profession is nothing to flare up at

oooooooooooooooooo
Colonel Narayan Darkfly (RIP)
Master Smuggler
Eclipse

The Awful Truth [now santized for family friendly fun]: One Two Three Four Five Six

Joker9125

Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:02 pm

#25

ana-mo-cara wrote:

..............CH is so increadibly broken in the game now no ch in their right mind will dare use a pet in pvp............................

I do. But then again im not exactly in my right mind now am I..................

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=218063">Clicky To My Sticky

"If nothing else, I've got time to explore some of the other games my friends are playing. It could easily be argued that the NGE is the best thing ever to happen to guild wars" - Me

Velitham MCH

Nicolas_Frost

Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:17 pm

#26

Joker9125 wrote:

ana-mo-cara wrote:

..............CH is so increadibly broken in the game now no ch in their right mind will dare use a pet in pvp............................

I do. But then again im not exactly in my right mind now am I..................

Don't worry about ana-mo-cara. It was high time we got a village idiot.

Jaecob Maragi
Babelonian Militia Captain
Master Smuggler and Alliance Pilot
Captain of the LongShot(2)
THE Official Smuggler Forum Smartass!
The prices of my services are based on "tolerance". The more I have to tolerate you, the more you have to pay me.

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