Smuggler Archive
Thread: The Smuggler Ship???????????
DrevenStrobe
Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:26 am
#14
Solo4114 wrote:
Wait a second. Are you f'ing kidding me? There are certifications for the ships??? Come ON man! You've GOT to be joking. Yet another design bungle by SOE inmy opinion. I thought, at one point, there was a movement to do away with certifications and simply have different equipment perform different jobs. Now I see that SOE is FIRMLY committed towards people grinding and will NEVER let go of that concept.
Anyway, this is ridiculous on so many levels. Once you obtain enough skill points or experience to fly a ship, you should be able to fly pretty much any ship, but your skills AT flying those ships would improve (IE: better sensor range or whatever).
And what's this crap about having to be neutral to fly certain ships?? What, you can't fly a YT-1300 if you're Imperial or Rebel? Did anyone forget that Han Solo eventually BECAME A REBEL and continued to fly the Falcon?? Good god these guys can't design their way out of a wet paper bag and they CERTAINLY don't know squat about Star Wars. Boy I'm sure glad I didn't waste any money on JtL...
Anyway, Solo's ship was a heavily modified YT-1300. Stock YT-1300s come with less armor and weaker shields, as well as only one gun turret (the dorsal one), slower engines (both sublight and hyperspace), no concussion missile launchers, and no hidden blaster like the one we see when Solo escapes from Hoth. The Falcon had an additional gun turret added (the ventral one), tougher armor and shields, better sensors, jamming equipment, smuggling containers (resistant to scans), etc.
And for the record, those of you who'd like to fly a regular YT-1300 or the Falcon, I recommend you pick up X-Wing Alliance where you can fly ANY ship you want without having some dumbass certification.
Heh...just to stir your pot a little more Solo...
If you have a YT-1300, you can't use it in a fight unless you've got some buddies with you. The weapons can't be fired from the cockpit. And, it also takes one lot...just like a house.
DrevenStrobe
Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:09 am
#15
TsN-Wizzer wrote:
DrevenStrobe wrote:
Heh...just to stir your pot a little more Solo...
If you have a YT-1300, you can't use it in a fight unless you've got some buddies with you. The weapons can't be fired from the cockpit. And, it also takes one lot...just like a house.
Incorrect. Only the Guns are Fired from the Turrets, the Missles are all controlled Via the Pilot. and I believe the YT carries 3 Missle Hardpoints.
I stand corrected...
TsN-Wizzer
Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:13 am
#16
Is really Only Cool as long as you have LOTS of Ammo, and it really takes a Skilled Person to Fly with Two gunners. You have to Keep the ship moving, but in a Position where Both gunners can tear through stuff.
DrevenStrobe wrote:
TsN-Wizzer wrote:
Incorrect. Only the Guns are Fired from the Turrets, the Missles are all controlled Via the Pilot. and I believe the YT carries 3 Missle Hardpoints.
I stand corrected...
Ternque01
Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:53 am
#17
I can imagine that hitting a target out of a turret is just as hard as it is in X-Wing Alliance: pretty damn hard.
It would take alot of skill to keep your two turrets beaded on a target.
TsN-Wizzer
Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:44 am
#18
In beta they did a PVP Weekend where the Pilot Profs were on the frogs and we got to Play around with the YT. It was one of the Best Star Wars experiences I have had in the game.
In the Middle of a Fight we had a Conduit Leak so I jumped out of the Pilots chair and Ran back to fix it while my two Buds Kept the bad Guys at bay in the Turrets.
Can't wait till I get there again, am 2/2/2/1 now.
Ternque01
Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:13 pm
#19
Wow, that does sound cool. Make sure you get handed the hydrospanners 
Solo4114
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:20 pm
#20
It does help explain it, but I still don't like how access to practically all new content is gated by the Guardian of Grind.
I always thought the cert system with weapons was just f-ing stupid, and I feel the same about certs for ships.
If you pick a profession/skillset, you should get access to use those weapons from day 1. How WELL you use them can be gated, I suppose (IE: you get new attacks, you hit for more damage, etc.), but the notion that I can pick up a DL-44 and use it without penalties, but CAN'T pick up, say, an FWG5 and use without penalties is just dumb.
Then again, considering that so many weapons duplicate each other in functionality, half the certs don't matter anyway.
The end effect, though, is homogenization of the game. When you have everyone using the same weapons, armor, whatever because it's the "best", then you lose all sense of diversity in the game world. When one profession is "best" or "most effective", again, you lose all diversity. If the YT-1300 is seen as the "top" ship of the Privateer line (or whatever), then why the hell would anyone fly anything else? Suddenly, ALL you see are YT-1300s being flown, which isn't exactly starwarsy.
Then again, SOE wouldn't know starwarsy if it sat on their face and broke wind.
Fernas
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 pm
#21
well, you still see people flying things other than YT for one reason because they can't find a bud to man the turret. 
Bzzzz
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:51 pm
#22
Solo4114 wrote:
If you pick a profession/skillset, you should get access to use those weapons from day 1. How WELL you use them can be gated, I suppose (IE: you get new attacks, you hit for more damage, etc.), but the notion that I can pick up a DL-44 and use it without penalties, but CAN'T pick up, say, an FWG5 and use without penalties is just dumb.
Pilot-profs are a lot different than ground-profs, and the new system makes some kind of sense. In JTL you can't just talk to a trainer and have them teach you to become an independent professional. JTL is more military-oriented, you talk to a particular faction and squadron recruiter, and sign your life away ona dotted line. You're free to buy/modify your ship how you want, but you're not your own boss.. and regardless of how "experienced" you are, they won't teach you how to fly a certain ship or use a certain piece of equipment until they're confident that you won't shoot yourself in the face. So in that respect, it makes some sense:a person doesn't know how to flyF-14s just because they have a lot of time in C-147s. Presuming that they could somehow buy one privately, they'd crash and die unless someone with the correct background trained them properly in its use.
Now whether this is "Starwarsy" or not is up to you. But Luke was only able to fly the X-Wing without proper training because he was already a master with the T16 Skyhopper.
-Zz (secretly hoping that the "Smugglers-Run" painting will have some more significance if/when our revamp happens)
FreakyDeakyDuch
Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:36 pm
#23
The reason why there are certs for weapons is because they dont want a novice marksman with a rich alt runnin around burnin everyone with their krayt de-10. You have to learn to shoot a pistol before you can shoot a bazooka.
EmpireEntrepeneur
Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:04 pm
#24
I just wanted to add that I hate to pilot, but would love to join anyone as a second gunner. If anyone is need of a +1 crew member for what ever ship please pst. On bria.
jseames
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:34 am
#25
Solo4114 wrote:
Wait a second. Are you f'ing kidding me? There are certifications for the ships??? Come ON man! You've GOT to be joking. Yet another design bungle by SOE inmy opinion. I thought, at one point, there was a movement to do away with certifications and simply have different equipment perform different jobs. Now I see that SOE is FIRMLY committed towards people grinding and will NEVER let go of that concept.
Anyway, this is ridiculous on so many levels. Once you obtain enough skill points or experience to fly a ship, you should be able to fly pretty much any ship, but your skills AT flying those ships would improve (IE: better sensor range or whatever).
And what's this crap about having to be neutral to fly certain ships?? What, you can't fly a YT-1300 if you're Imperial or Rebel? Did anyone forget that Han Solo eventually BECAME A REBEL and continued to fly the Falcon?? Good god these guys can't design their way out of a wet paper bag and they CERTAINLY don't know squat about Star Wars. Boy I'm sure glad I didn't waste any money on JtL...
Anyway, Solo's ship was a heavily modified YT-1300. Stock YT-1300s come with less armor and weaker shields, as well as only one gun turret (the dorsal one), slower engines (both sublight and hyperspace), no concussion missile launchers, and no hidden blaster like the one we see when Solo escapes from Hoth. The Falcon had an additional gun turret added (the ventral one), tougher armor and shields, better sensors, jamming equipment, smuggling containers (resistant to scans), etc.
And for the record, those of you who'd like to fly a regular YT-1300 or the Falcon, I recommend you pick up X-Wing Alliance where you can fly ANY ship you want without having some dumbass certification.
Just to clarify, the way factions work in space is different and separate from on the ground. You can fly privateer ships and still be either Imperial or rebel.My characterhappens to be factionally aligned as a rebel, but flies in the privateer profession. If I wanted to PvP against Imperial ships, I could just go to an appropriate rebel space station and declare as "overt" in space, since I'm factionally alligned as a rebel on the ground (at least, this is the way the devs have said it's supposed to work . . . I haven't tried it, so I'm not sure if it's currently functioning as intended). Even if I'm a privateer pilot, yet factionally alligned as a rebel on the ground, I can PvP against Imperial players in space as a rebel while still flying my privateer ships. The example you used of Han flying as a smuggler with his YT-1300 and later becoming a rebel while still flying his own ship fits with this. Not an ideal system to many, but it's not the black and white Imperial/Rebel/Neutral system that's in place on the ground. The only factional restrictions are that a rebel factioned player cannot fly as an Imperial pilot and vice versa. Also, if I don't choose to turn a PvP flag on, I can still take the fight to the Empire in PvE as a privateer if I want by blasting any NPC TIEs I see flying around (as long as they aren't a part of someone else's mission). They won't necessarily aggro me if I fly by, but as soon as I open fire on them, it gets their attention rather quickly. Its similar to being covert on the ground, yet different. There are no real TEFs in space, so I don't open myself up to attack from Imperial players if I haven't declared and set my PvP switch on, but that particular squadron of NPC ships will suddenly decide they don't like me and will return fire. I hope this helps to explain the JtL system a little better, since it seems there's still a lot of confusion.
Message Edited by jseames on 11-04-2004 01:36 PM
Nicolas_Frost
Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:42 am
#26
Solo4114 wrote:It does help explain it, but I still don't like how access to practically all new content is gated by the Guardian of Grind.I always thought the cert system with weapons was just f-ing stupid, and I feel the same about certs for ships.If you pick a profession/skillset, you should get access to use those weapons from day 1. How WELL you use them can be gated, I suppose (IE: you get new attacks, you hit for more damage, etc.), but the notion that I can pick up a DL-44 and use it without penalties, but CAN'T pick up, say, an FWG5 and use without penalties is just dumb.Then again, considering that so many weapons duplicate each other in functionality, half the certs don't matter anyway.The end effect, though, is homogenization of the game. When you have everyone using the same weapons, armor, whatever because it's the "best", then you lose all sense of diversity in the game world. When one profession is "best" or "most effective", again, you lose all diversity. If the YT-1300 is seen as the "top" ship of the Privateer line (or whatever), then why the hell would anyone fly anything else? Suddenly, ALL you see are YT-1300s being flown, which isn't exactly starwarsy.Then again, SOE wouldn't know starwarsy if it sat on their face and broke wind.
One question for you, do you live in the United States?
If the answer is yes, then tell me do you have a driver's license?
If so, please get it out at look at it for a moment.
There are several restriction codes and certifications listed on driver's licenses(below are the ones found on an Oklahoma Driver's License). First is the Class of license. This is A,B,C, or D.
Class A certifies you for "Any vehicle or combination of vehicles."
Class B certifies you for "Any vehicle with a GVWR over 26001 or more pounds. May tow a vehicle not in excess of 10000 pounds GVWR."
Class C certifies you for "Any vehicle or combination of vehicles except for class A & B which is required to be placarded for hazardous materials or designed for 16+ occupants and Class D vehicle."
Class D certifies you for " All vehicles or combination of vehicles except A,B,&C."
There are also endorsements:
N- Tank
T- Double/Triple
H- Hazardous Material
X- N&H
M- Motorcycle
P- Passenger
Most pertinant to the topic now is the class codes, this is similar to certifications for types of ships. The more the experienced driver you are, the more demanding vehicles you get to drive. The more experienced pilot you are, the more demanding ships you get to fly. It works the same way.