Smuggler Archive

Thread: The Smuggler Ship???????????

Solo4114
Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:32 am
#27

Yes, I live in the states, yes, I have a drivers' license, and yes, I understand the rationale you're describing.


Ijust don't agree with it. Here's the thing. I can get a license to drive any non-specialized motor vehicle (IE: car, pickup truck, van, etc.). I am then able to get into any car and drive it. Maybe I can't drive it as well as someone else who's more experienced, but I can still drive it. Once I make it past that initial hurdle, ALL vehicles are open to me. In real life, I drive a 2003Subaru WRX. But here's where real life differs from SWG. As much as I love my WRX, I recognize that, for example, a Lamborghini is a much higher-end car. In real life, however, if I wanted to drive a Lamborghini, and had one available to me, I wouldn't need some special certification to drive it. TheLamborghini may be at the "top" of the car tiers, in a sense, but it's not like I have to drive lesser vehicles before I can drive it. The only thing preventing my driving aLamborghini is money. Period. If I can afford it, I can drive it, no questions asked. Likewise, it's not like I have to drive a Pinto or a Yugo before I can drive my WRX.


But, that is how SWG is structured. You start with the Pinto, work your way up to a 1984 Honda Civic hatchback, maybe then graduate to a 2000 Subaru Forrester, and then make the WRX box. After that, you can work your way up to the Lamborghini, but you have to drive all the other lesser vehicles first.


Now, I recognize that this is an MMORPG and such games require "acheivement" based content (in other words content that you get access to as you "level"). I don't mind gated content or content based on "levels" (SWG doesn't really have levels, though, so it's more tiers in the profession), but not ALL content should be level restricted.


Personally, I've never liked the cert system at all. Within the crafting system, gated certs combined with gradually increasing skills destroyed any chance for low level crafters to participate in the economy. In combat, it's the same thing, albeit to a lesser degree -- your lower level weapons are crap, the higher level weapons do the best damage/damage types (not that damage types seem to mean much), and you're constantly striving for the next big gun.


Why did this need to be brought to ships as well? As long as you meet the basic requirements to fly the ship (IE: you've spent points on rudimentary flight skills) your skills should all be given to you at once, but should improve over time.


So, let's say you have the following skills:


- Pilot Reactions/Reflexes

- Maneuvers

- Gunnery

- Ship maintenance


As you start your pilot career, these skills are relatively low. As you increase your experience, these skills increase as well. Maybe this means new maneuvers are learned, you are able to target ship subsystems specifically (or are more likely to hit them), or can tweak your ship in new and different ways. The point is, your skills are what increase.


But, from day one, you should be able to fly every ship available. OR, and if you want to treat it like drivers licenses, you should be able to train to fly every type of ship from the start.


What bugs me is that you have to fly a Z-95 before you can fly an R-41. You have to fly a luxury yacht before you can fly a YT-1300. I don't know all the ships in the game or how they're gated, but whatever the system is, you have to learn to fly the useless crap or the stuff you don't want before you can learn to fly the other stuff.


I'd set it up so that you can take proficiencies in any of the ships from the start, but are, perhaps, limited by skill points in the number of ships you can be proficient at. Or rather than do it by specific ship, do it by ship class. So, you could be a transport pilot and a fighter pilot, but not a transport, fighter, and bomber pilot. I find the system where you're just a "pilot" but have to fly the lower level stuff before you can even LOOK at the upper level stuff to just be more of the same stupid SOE grind mentality. It leads to game homogenization where everyone's flying the "best" ship or using the "best" gun or only goes to master craftsmen or whatever. This has been a major problem with SWG from day one, and it's yet another reason why I don't play the game or have an active account anymore.


Achievement-oriented content is vital to the survival of a game, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't end up hurting the game as well. As long as SOE sticks with tiered certifications AS WELL AS tiered skill increases, this game will suffer from these problems and keep folks like me from coming back.
KiayaWi
Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:00 am
#28






Solo4114 wrote:


As you start your pilot career, these skills are relatively low. As you increase your experience, these skills increase as well. Maybe this means new maneuvers are learned, you are able to target ship subsystems specifically (or are more likely to hit them), or can tweak your ship in new and different ways. The point is, your skills are what increase.


But, from day one, you should be able to fly every ship available. OR, and if you want to treat it like drivers licenses, you should be able to train to fly every type of ship from the start.






This is called Novice Pilot...you're just learning your skills are not so good.


This is in there...you learn new maneuvers as you go up in skills.


This is already in there as well.


This is called certification to use higher end parts


You can train to fly every ship of your faction as your skills increase. As for the "I want to fly every ship in the game" that is just ridiculous. Why would an Imperial be flying around in an X-wing...or evena YT1300...as for rebels they wouldn't be in Tie fighters and if you look at the rebel armada ONLY Han's ship is a YT1300. Even if he later joined the rebel alliance doesn't matter. I'm a member of the rebel alliance but I went privateer because first and foremost, like Han, I am a smuggler out for myself. These restrictions add the star wars feeling in the game.



As for the leveling system I think the devs did a great job. There are quests that have to be performed in order to train and I for one am enjoying working on my boxes. Grinding is for power gamers who want to be the best and have the best skills right away. Just because people choose to play the game that way does not mean the Devs did a bad job.


Message Edited by KiayaWi on 11-05-2004 11:08 AM




Oakai "Shorty" I'Lar - Kyroki "Shorter" I'Lar - The Other Sister - Missing in Action Good Luck Bear
JavaHulk
Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:50 am
#29






Nicolas_Frost wrote:





Solo4114 wrote:





Nicolas_Frost wrote:
-2 points for every question mark after the first.

There is no "Smuggler Ship". Ships that are used by Smugglers are just transports/frieghters that have been used/modified to Smuggle.





Which, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't possible (smuggling, that is). So, what exactly are you modifying?






That's another point for another conversation. I'm simply trying to point out that there is no predefined "Smuggler" ship. Its not like, there's a company out there that goes: "You know, lets make a line of ships for Smugglers.". That's like a car company going: "You know, lets make a line of cars for crack dealers.".





Dude my crackmobile kicks ass what are you talking about? lol



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KiayaWi
Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:36 pm
#30






KabaI wrote:


Yeah, but you really can't equate driving a car on the ground (which is really the same no matter what you learned in), with piloting a starfighter. It's more accurate to compare planes. Say you trained in a Cesna prop, completed your course, and got your certification. Does that mean that now you'll be able to get into a DC-10 and take off with no extra training? How about an old WWII era P-32? How about an F-14? Each of these planes have different cockpit layouts, instrumentation, startup procedures, flight characteristics, etc.





Exactly...spaceships/airplanes are a lot more complicated to operate than a car.





Oakai "Shorty" I'Lar - Kyroki "Shorter" I'Lar - The Other Sister - Missing in Action Good Luck Bear
Nicolas_Frost
Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:39 pm
#31






KabaI wrote:





Solo4114 wrote:

Yes, I live in the states, yes, I have a drivers' license, and yes, I understand the rationale you're describing.


Ijust don't agree with it. Here's the thing. I can get a license to drive any non-specialized motor vehicle (IE: car, pickup truck, van, etc.). I am then able to get into any car and drive it. Maybe I can't drive it as well as someone else who's more experienced, but I can still drive it. Once I make it past that initial hurdle, ALL vehicles are open to me. In real life, I drive a 2003Subaru WRX. But here's where real life differs from SWG. As much as I love my WRX, I recognize that, for example, a Lamborghini is a much higher-end car. In real life, however, if I wanted to drive a Lamborghini, and had one available to me, I wouldn't need some special certification to drive it. TheLamborghini may be at the "top" of the car tiers, in a sense, but it's not like I have to drive lesser vehicles before I can drive it. The only thing preventing my driving aLamborghini is money. Period. If I can afford it, I can drive it, no questions asked. Likewise, it's not like I have to drive a Pinto or a Yugo before I can drive my WRX.




Yeah, but you really can't equate driving a car on the ground (which is really the same no matter what you learned in), with piloting a starfighter. It's more accurate to compare planes. Say you trained in a Cesna prop, completed your course, and got your certification. Does that mean that now you'll be able to get into a DC-10 and take off with no extra training? How about an old WWII era P-32? How about an F-14? Each of these planes have different cockpit layouts, instrumentation, startup procedures, flight characteristics, etc.








Precisely my point. All those cars you mentioned, Solo, those would all be the Novice vehicles. Afterwards comes semis, freight vehicles, tanks, cargo trucks, motorcycles.


Just because a McLaren is faster, more responsive, etcetera, does not make it the next level in cars. It simply makes it a high performance car that anyone with a Class D license without endorsements/restrictions can drive. But, can you go out and legally drive a dump truck with that same license? Or a tractor trailer? No.


Thusly, starports will not let you launch with ships you're not licensed(certified) to fly.



As for weapons, I agree, each class should have its own damage mods, however, each weapon shouldn't be the same ammount of damage. I mean, that's like saying a guy packing a .22 pistol should be able to deal as much damage to a guy with a .357 magnum.


Personally, I prefer the FWG5, as opposed to the DX2 or the Republic Blaster I also carry, but sometimes, situations call for different tactics. Maybe my target is hellishly resistant to Heat damage, but not so much against Energy, and vulnerable to acid, or any number of scenarios.




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