Smuggler Archive
Thread: So, to fix slicing exploits, what would you suggest?
PhoenixOrion
Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:04 pm
#14
if there is a fix with tools, it needs to also be added so that OLD tools work with the fix as well, as it will hurt some of smugglers who actually sell tools to people and have a huge stock of tools in storage...
JohboBocal
Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:12 pm
#15
What if, and this is only a what if, the devs allow this and say its a feature, then it would add something to smuggler, and everyone would be happy.
If there is something wrong in this I do not see, I'm happy to learn. I understand that at present we are trying to clarify if it is an exploit or not. If it is, then I agree we should not use it, but if it were allowed, and made into a feature, that would be great. If not, then the second slice should just have the same code written in as the first slice, that removes the powerup. Pretty simple I think.
SickOfRegisteringJustToRe
Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:31 pm
#16
There must be simple function that is called to remove a powerup to slice it. Simply recall that function later in the process or just move it. Possibly right after cutting the second wire.
I would be willing to bet they could cut a line of code and paste it in a different spot and fix this problem.
I know that seems simple but that seems to be how the SOE programmers do things. Lots of simple mistakes and oversights.
So, my vote is for#2 since it should be the easiest to do.
WesBelden
Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:33 pm
#17
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
This recent interest in how to not only do slicing exploits, but justify them, hasled me to wonder how you would prefer we fix them from happening.
We know that powerups are removed as we slice each wire, but this obviously hasn't solved the problem.
Here were some options from my perspective. Working within the system we have now, rather than pushing for a revamped slicing system that we will hopefully have eventually.
- Have the slicing window turned into one that you either 'do or do not'. You don't work on thirty different things while slicing open a grenade and work from a fixed window that does not allow you to move stuff around in.
- Concerns:
- Laser knife charges would need to have a system check at the same time the system checks for an upgrade kit, to insure that the slicer has enough to finish a complete slice.
- Have the check for a powerup occur before the % of the increase is calculated. If detected, return to the window while having the powerup removed.
- Or if detected after a wire is cut, have the slice fail. (Stick it to them for tampering with the system too much, so to speak)
- Ask for power-ups to not increase the base weapon stats. In short, alter them so that when the weapon is sliced, it won't see the increased stats.
- Concerns:
- This is asking for a pretty large overhaul of the database most likely in how they put powerup stats on weapons.
So what would you prefer? 1? 2? Both? Some other solution that I can't think of at the moment?
Personally I would like both included at the moment, but maybe I'm not seeing all the problems with such actions.
I'm just editting on the fly as I continue to think on the subject.
Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 08-06-2004 11:04 AM
Either 1 or 2,preferably2 as 1 willrestrict everyone, while 2 will just affect those naughty people out there. If they've the time to implement3 then they've probably been lying to us about what resources they can divert ourway 
. Maybe ask for them to stick in our fricking experimentation points and re-do the slicing system to how your design document suggests if they've time to look at it at all pre-revamp; that way they'd have even more time to work on smuggling for the player base.
. Maybe ask for them to stick in our fricking experimentation points and re-do the slicing system to how your design document suggests if they've time to look at it at all pre-revamp; that way they'd have even more time to work on smuggling for the player base.
JamesHighwest
Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:37 pm
#18
Why not change the window to a "crafting" window. Choose what you want to slice, choose the tools you will be using (ie, laser knife, clamp/FAN, WUK) and then click slice. If one is using a FAN then another window comes up with the FAN results and you choose red or blue. Only after all this will the interface remove any powerups and slice the weapon.
Heck, this could probably be configured to slice multiple weapons if the Dev's are feeling so bold.
Hattrix
Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:43 pm
#19
I think both ideas have merit, but I like the idea of leaving it as it is, ALLOWING the P-Up to be put on but making the gun untradeable if that occurs (with a prompt of course). Then Smugglers get their own 'special' gun that only they can use.
jbezorg
Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:08 pm
#20
Option 1- will present a problem when slicing a base in combat and I would prefer not to have 2 slicing UIs.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
This recent interest in how to not only do slicing exploits, but justify them, hasled me to wonder how you would prefer we fix them from happening.
We know that powerups are removed as we slice each wire, but this obviously hasn't solved the problem.
Here were some options from my perspective. Working within the system we have now, rather than pushing for a revamped slicing system that we will hopefully have eventually.
- Have the slicing window turned into one that you either 'do or do not'. You don't work on thirty different things while slicing open a grenade and work from a fixed window that does not allow you to move stuff around in.
- Concerns:
- Laser knife charges would need to have a system check at the same time the system checks for an upgrade kit, to insure that the slicer has enough to finish a complete slice.
- Have the check for a powerup occur before the % of the increase is calculated. If detected, return to the window while having the powerup removed.
- Or if detected after a wire is cut, have the slice fail. (Stick it to them for tampering with the system too much, so to speak)
- Ask for power-ups to not increase the base weapon stats. In short, alter them so that when the weapon is sliced, it won't see the increased stats.
- Concerns:
- This is asking for a pretty large overhaul of the database most likely in how they put powerup stats on weapons.
So what would you prefer? 1? 2? Both? Some other solution that I can't think of at the moment?
Personally I would like both included at the moment, but maybe I'm not seeing all the problems with such actions.
I'm just editting on the fly as I continue to think on the subject.
Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 08-06-2004 11:04 AM
Lynchmawb
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:04 am
#21
I would say if we are going to change anything in this process have it come up in a window like the ID change. Both players agree on the price etc in a secure window.
- Its listed with current stats and if it has a powerup its removed before the process is started.
- You slice the weapon and the stats and % are shown to both players.
- Pay the agreed price and move to the next weapon or armor piece.
ikolian
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:19 am
#22
I don't like option 1- I've had too many cases where the mission terminal windows mess me up- like for instance I try to open another window while sorting missions- then everything bugs and I have trouble getting stuff closed so I can get the mission window closed. I also ALWAYS forget a knife at least one during an order and have to rumage through my pack (or even craft a new one) while the slicing window is open.
JediArashi
Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:45 am
#23
I too do not like the #1 option. When I slice I like to keep a running receipt for my customers in an openingame email. To make sure Ikeep things straight I move back and forth from those windows a lot, even in mid-slice.I don't really liek the idea of being "shut-out" from the world while slicing, especially on large jobs.
I thinktheidea of just moving thePup check to theend, instead of where it is...at least until the revamp.
-Arashi
Bloodfin
Nicolas_Frost
Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:32 am
#24
Here's an idea.
Only take the powerup off the first time, and if there just happens to be another powerup later on while slicing it, the slice plus the powerup at the same time "sends a power surge through the weapon", which reduces it to zero condition.
*THAT* will stop people from this form of multislicing. >
Only take the powerup off the first time, and if there just happens to be another powerup later on while slicing it, the slice plus the powerup at the same time "sends a power surge through the weapon", which reduces it to zero condition.
*THAT* will stop people from this form of multislicing. >
Nicolas_Frost
Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:01 am
#25
Note: While this idea won't stop people from using currently multisliced weaponry, thier weapons will eventually wear out, and if they try it again, thier weapons break.
If this doesn't go, then I pick the second option. Mine was just a more severe form of it.
Also, my logic behind the weapon breaking is this. Basicly, the parts of the weapons we deal with is a bunch of circuitry, and slicing them is an analogue to overclocking computers, correct? Well, what happens to your hardware when it gets to hot/powersurge/etcetera? I lost a video card to a surge, so makes since that a blaster would fizzle if you pumped to much juice through it while overclocking it.
If this doesn't go, then I pick the second option. Mine was just a more severe form of it.
Also, my logic behind the weapon breaking is this. Basicly, the parts of the weapons we deal with is a bunch of circuitry, and slicing them is an analogue to overclocking computers, correct? Well, what happens to your hardware when it gets to hot/powersurge/etcetera? I lost a video card to a surge, so makes since that a blaster would fizzle if you pumped to much juice through it while overclocking it.
Selko
Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:04 am
#26
Currently the PUP is only removed upon cutting the first wire. Iknow because I did it for a while before I found out it was an exploit. Anyway back to my point instead of the pup falling off after the first cut the devs need to make it fall off after the second then calculate the damage total. This shouldn't be too hard no huge database change just an adjustment ot timing.