Smuggler Archive
Thread: Yee gads...look at what I thought up (slicing stuff)
WookieBounty
Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:20 pm
#14
Ok....
- I five stared you....my only thing IS
What about those REALLY nice weapons??? The ones that required looted schematics and etc.... I have a couple ideas there (since i'm an avid purchaser of high end weapons)
- Make it to where those weapons are slightly invulnerable to mistakes (as part of schematic loot)
- Make it where a Master Weaponsmith must be present to help with the slicing....or he must make a device to attach to it so it won't break....
My main thing here is that I don't want my super expensive hard to get weapon to just go poof.....Only for those that require a looted schematic....
Orcajum
Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:54 am
#15
WookieBounty wrote:>What about those REALLY nice weapons??? The ones that required looted schematics and etc.... I have a couple ideas there (since i'm an avid purchaser of high end weapons)
- Make it to where those weapons are slightly invulnerable to mistakes (as part of schematic loot)
My main thing here is that I don't want my super expensive hard to get weapon to just go poof.....Only for those that require a looted schematic....
If someone is afraid of their weapon going poof, they shouldn't be getting it sliced. It's a matter of risk and reward...are you willing to risk that high end weapon against the potential increase in performance? You have to ask yourself, "Do I feel lucky?"
If non-loot weapons are vulnerable and uber weapons are invulnerable, then the only weapons you'll see getting sliced are those high-end weapons that are already way more powerful. There's no risk involved, it's a no brainer. It's like tricking out a porche just so it can race a Kia.
WookieBounty
Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:58 am
#16
Orcajum wrote:
WookieBounty wrote:
>
What about those REALLY nice weapons??? The ones that required looted schematics and etc.... I have a couple ideas there (since i'm an avid purchaser of high end weapons)
- Make it to where those weapons are slightly invulnerable to mistakes (as part of schematic loot)
My main thing here is that I don't want my super expensive hard to get weapon to just go poof.....Only for those that require a looted schematic....
If someone is afraid of their weapon going poof, they shouldn't be getting it sliced. It's a matter of risk and reward...are you willing to risk that high end weapon against the potential increase in performance? You have to ask yourself, "Do I feel lucky?"
If non-loot weapons are vulnerable and uber weapons are invulnerable, then the only weapons you'll see getting sliced are those high-end weapons that are already way more powerful. There's no risk involved, it's a no brainer. It's like tricking out a porche just so it can race a Kia.
My only argument is that if under this new system you can some how slice a "regular" weapon to equal or beyond the stats of a looted/loot schematic weapon then why have these "special" weapons in the first place???
Glzmo
Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:16 pm
#17
I like the idea of making slicing a mini-game and involve a risk with it. This is one small thing that could make smuggler so much more fun. Unfortunately, the developers of this game do not pay attention to such game-enhancing details in any of the professions, which is very, very sad.
scall01
Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:34 pm
#18
I'm sorry but I think experminenting on clamps and knives is the most retarded idea ever. 
I don't want to turn into a doctor searching for insanely priced crates of smuggling supplies.
I don't want to turn into a doctor searching for insanely priced crates of smuggling supplies.EDIT: Just realized, when you say experiment do you mean resources wise? Like have to have insanely high OQ conduct and other things to make good clamps?
Message Edited by scall01 on 09-13-2004 02:39 PM
NickHeel
Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:58 pm
#19
scall01 wrote:
I'm sorry but I think experminenting on clamps and knives is the most retarded idea ever.
EDIT: Just realized, when you say experiment do you mean resources wise? Like have to have insanely high OQ conduct and other things to make good clamps?
Message Edited by scall01 on 09-13-2004 02:39 PM
The experimentation on the Molecular Clamp will not automatically effect the total outcome of the slice. A master smuggler with crap quality Clamps has the same chance to get a perfect as possible slice as a master smuggler with 99% clamps. The only thing effecting total output is the level of the smuggler where a Master may slice a weapon for 35-40% semi-randomly.
All the Clamp is telling you is how stable the power-pak is and how much more it can take. It's an idicator for how many more modifications you can try to make so it really comes down to the actual players skill in knowing about particular weapons and experience in slicing.
You would be able to choose a subsystem (name differing from each model weapon to increase actual "skill" and "experience") from the list of drop down boxes "Recharge Modulator", "Power Out-put Regulator", or something. Then when you click on it, the box drops down (like picking HUD color patterns in your options) to where you can select "Fine Tune", "Skilled Adjustment", or "Total Reroute". Depending on which option you choose you are slicing the particular stat for about 5%, 10%, or 15%. When I say "about" I mean give or take 1%. Nothing should be able to take that away.
Now say you choose the full bore and go with Reroute on the Recharge Modulator. It slices for 14% speed but you won't know it until you "complete the slice" and see your end results. Then you select to go Reroute on "Power output Regulator" and you get a 16% slice on it (we're up to 30%).
Now we're going to fork the path and show you the difference between Experimented clamps and Non-Experimented clamps.
Non-Exp. - After your damage slice your clamp reads "The power-pak is stressed and can't take much more!" Now, you know from experience that you can't be that close to your cap of 40% modification. But it's possible for you to be anywhere from around 28-32% roughly so far. So, from your actual slicing experience you can determine that you can for sure squeeze in a "Fine Tuned" slice (around 5%) and you've got about a 50/50 shot at the "Skilled Admustment" (near 10%). Do you take the risk of damaging the weapon for the reward getting a perfect slice or go the safe route and stick to around 35% modification? note: if you got two 16% and a 6% slice (with the safe route) you're still up to 38% of the possible 40%.
Exp. Clamp - This is the same as before except when you get to 30% the clamp reads "The power-pak is reading strong stress signatures but only bad luck would cause an overload." You still have the same options and possible outcomes as with non-experimented clamps but you know that you're probably right at 30 or 31 percent so, like the clamp reads, only a perfect 11% "Skilled Adjustment" slice would do you in. If you got a 9 or 10% you would end up with 39 or 40% respectively.
As you can see, you're dealing with 1 percentage point here or there so the more modifications you make to it (in a single slice) the trickier it gets. Which makes sense! This isn't like walking through a mine field unless you force yourself to walk through it. The room for error is so small that even the crappiest of clamps (so long as you didn't just pick up 72 conduct aluminum) if experimented on should yield a much more confident smuggler.
So to answer you're question, scall01, "No". You do not need to shop for insanely priced supplies or have crazy high conduct copper to get decent results. Every Master Smuggler, regardless of tool quality, has the same chance of a 40% slice as another. So long as you get some Copper/Aluminum that you can actually experiment on, you're going to be much more confident in the choice you pick is all. The clamps never lie and you can still screw up (by the randomness) with 99% stuff. It's all about RISK and REWARD.
Again, you have to think that this isn't going to be for everyone. You aren't going to be spamming for this in front of Starports. Sliced gear will be much harder to come by so don't worry abou "But people will be pissed because I can't assure them a high-end slice!" Don't worry about that because you're a smuggler, not a slicer. Everyone shouldn't have sliced stuff 
Message Edited by NickHeel on 09-13-2004 07:04 PM
WookieBounty
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:10 pm
#20
NickHeel wrote:
scall01 wrote:
I'm sorry but I think experminenting on clamps and knives is the most retarded idea ever.
EDIT: Just realized, when you say experiment do you mean resources wise? Like have to have insanely high OQ conduct and other things to make good clamps?
Message Edited by scall01 on 09-13-2004 02:39 PM
The experimentation on the Molecular Clamp will not automatically effect the total outcome of the slice. A master smuggler with crap quality Clamps has the same chance to get a perfect as possible slice as a master smuggler with 99% clamps. The only thing effecting total output is the level of the smuggler where a Master may slice a weapon for 35-40% semi-randomly.
All the Clamp is telling you is how stable the power-pak is and how much more it can take. It's an idicator for how many more modifications you can try to make so it really comes down to the actual players skill in knowing about particular weapons and experience in slicing.
You would be able to choose a subsystem (name differing from each model weapon to increase actual "skill" and "experience") from the list of drop down boxes "Recharge Modulator", "Power Out-put Regulator", or something. Then when you click on it, the box drops down (like picking HUD color patterns in your options) to where you can select "Fine Tune", "Skilled Adjustment", or "Total Reroute". Depending on which option you choose you are slicing the particular stat for about 5%, 10%, or 15%. When I say "about" I mean give or take 1%. Nothing should be able to take that away.
Now say you choose the full bore and go with Reroute on the Recharge Modulator. It slices for 14% speed but you won't know it until you "complete the slice" and see your end results. Then you select to go Reroute on "Power output Regulator" and you get a 16% slice on it (we're up to 30%).
Now we're going to fork the path and show you the difference between Experimented clamps and Non-Experimented clamps.
Non-Exp. - After your damage slice your clamp reads "The power-pak is stressed and can't take much more!" Now, you know from experience that you can't be that close to your cap of 40% modification. But it's possible for you to be anywhere from around 28-32% roughly so far. So, from your actual slicing experience you can determine that you can for sure squeeze in a "Fine Tuned" slice (around 5%) and you've got about a 50/50 shot at the "Skilled Admustment" (near 10%). Do you take the risk of damaging the weapon for the reward getting a perfect slice or go the safe route and stick to around 35% modification? note: if you got two 16% and a 6% slice (with the safe route) you're still up to 38% of the possible 40%.
Exp. Clamp - This is the same as before except when you get to 30% the clamp reads "The power-pak is reading strong stress signatures but only bad luck would cause an overload." You still have the same options and possible outcomes as with non-experimented clamps but you know that you're probably right at 30 or 31 percent so, like the clamp reads, only a perfect 11% "Skilled Adjustment" slice would do you in. If you got a 9 or 10% you would end up with 39 or 40% respectively.
As you can see, you're dealing with 1 percentage point here or there so the more modifications you make to it (in a single slice) the trickier it gets. Which makes sense! This isn't like walking through a mine field unless you force yourself to walk through it. The room for error is so small that even the crappiest of clamps (so long as you didn't just pick up 72 conduct aluminum) if experimented on should yield a much more confident smuggler.
So to answer you're question, scall01, "No". You do not need to shop for insanely priced supplies or have crazy high conduct copper to get decent results. Every Master Smuggler, regardless of tool quality, has the same chance of a 40% slice as another. So long as you get some Copper/Aluminum that you can actually experiment on, you're going to be much more confident in the choice you pick is all. The clamps never lie and you can still screw up (by the randomness) with 99% stuff. It's all about RISK and REWARD.
Again, you have to think that this isn't going to be for everyone. You aren't going to be spamming for this in front of Starports. Sliced gear will be much harder to come by so don't worry abou "But people will be pissed because I can't assure them a high-end slice!" Don't worry about that because you're a smuggler, not a slicer. Everyone shouldn't have sliced stuff
Message Edited by NickHeel on 09-13-2004 07:04 PM
here here
So can we get this put in next week sometime???
Message Edited by WookieBounty on 09-13-2004 08:10 PM
scall01
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:15 pm
#21
Ilike your other ideas, but not the expirementing thing. As I said earlier, I don't want to go hunting for insanely over priced crates of smuggling supplies.
KaernLegorah
Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:26 pm
#22
NickHeel wrote:Another cool thing to add actually slicing experience with smugglers would be to have different types of weapons have different subsystems so only you're truely experienced smugglers would know that a DL-44's systems say this and do this and that this wire will feel this hot when it can't take any more.
Excellent thread; excellent overall idea on slicing. I especially love the idea of different weapons having different systems. Anybody can earn the title "Master Smuggler," but you're not truly a Master until you know all the weapons like the back of your hand. You'd be a real Slicer when somebody nearby is talking about a Laser Carbine and you think to yourself, "Laser Carbines have really stable Power Regulation Clusters making it easy to draw out a lot of extra power." God, that would rule
WookieBounty
Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:56 pm
#24
KaernLegorah wrote:
NickHeel wrote:
Another cool thing to add actually slicing experience with smugglers would be to have different types of weapons have different subsystems so only you're truely experienced smugglers would know that a DL-44's systems say this and do this and that this wire will feel this hot when it can't take any more.
Excellent thread; excellent overall idea on slicing. I especially love the idea of different weapons having different systems. Anybody can earn the title "Master Smuggler," but you're not truly a Master until you know all the weapons like the back of your hand. You'd be a real Slicer when somebody nearby is talking about a Laser Carbine and you think to yourself, "Laser Carbines have really stable Power Regulation Clusters making it easy to draw out a lot of extra power." God, that would rule
/agree That WOULD rule....
NickHeel
Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:04 pm
#25
scall01 wrote:
Ilike your other ideas, but not the expirementing thing. As I said earlier, I don't want to go hunting for insanely over priced crates of smuggling supplies.
Well, like I said earlier...500 conduct copper/aluminum ain't that hard to come by and you can usually find it for 2cpu at the most on the bazaar or on vendors. Or just have a buddy send you a waypoint for some and harvest it yourself.
Assuming that you make everything yourself with your own Factory and the only thing you're paying for is vendor resources...here is how much it would cost:
Find some generic bulk copper with 500 conductivity (this is pretty junk stuff when compared to your high-end material) at the usual 2cpu (at most) cost. It takes 90 units to make one clamp and 25 clamps to a crate, right? And let's not forget about the schematic so add a +90 to it. Now let's get out our calculators!
90(schematic) + 90(one clamp) * 25(clamps in a crate) = 2,340 units of aluminum/copper
2,340(units of resource) * 2 (cost per unit) = 4,680 credits
So there it is. 4,680cr/crate of clamps. Now that's not figuring in factory maintainance and power and you'd still need Laser Knives (which can be made from even junkier stuff; no experimentation) and AUKs/WUKs.
But for around 4.7k per crate of clamps that ain't bad. Most smugglers nowadays charge around 5k per slice anyway. I'll bet that within 3 slices you'd have recouped your expenses easily.
Now if you want to go buy all of your slicing gear from another smuggler when you can make the stuff yourself in the same way that the other guy is making it...well, that's a little silly. It's like a Master Armorsmith going next door to another MAS, buying off his vendor to resell on his at a much higher price.
Or better yet, if you're a oil refiner and you can make your own stuff for $7/barrel and sell it at profit for $8...why go to the competitor to buy for $9/barrel where you haev to sell at $11 just to cut even?
Just buy some cheap stuff and experiment it is all I'm suggesting with this idea. The way I'd like to see it set up is that a 50% clamp would essentially be just as good as a 99% clamp in respect to the accuracy of its read-out.
The experimentation is there to add just a touch of work and raise the price a tad. Not so we have to grind for 989CD and 950OQ copper to get a slice. Basically: Cheap material would be just as good as expensive.
Isleh
Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:47 pm
#26
scall01 wrote:
Ilike your other ideas, but not the expirementing thing. As I said earlier, I don't want to go hunting for insanely over priced crates of smuggling supplies.
I use to be a miner... ( big change huh? =P ) 400-500 metal anything isn't hard to come by. Someone was selling copper inchunks of 4000 for 6000 cr with a conductivity at 700+ on the coronet open market not to long ago so making good clamps cheap shouldn't be a problem. People being people though, they are going to get what ever people will pay for them so if you think the clamps are overpriced... you're shopping in the wrong store =)
If I understand the example correctly, You'd really only have to use a good clamp on the the first slice anyway.