Smuggler Archive
Thread: Anyone else notice Haden's comment about...
FlyinDuke wrote:
Dude, you actually reported SOE to BBB because they didn't do the revamp
I reported them b/c they have consistantly lied to us for a year now. Lying to customers = valid reportage to BBB.
Do you know how bull*** that make me feel. To believe that because they are working on other code, you reported them. DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW REDICULOUSLY HARD IT IS TO PROGRAM A GAME OF THIS MAGNITUDE
Oh I understand how hard it is to program a game of this magnitude. But to ignore a profession that has been in the game since launch to work on a profession that hasn't (Jedi) and an Expansion - is ludicrous. Where is the logic in ignoring a profession with several bugs for over a year in favor of adding a profession that wasn't in this game at launch?
Seriously, they haven't done many profession upgrades recently. and I don't mean one or two things, I mean a REVAMP. Why you ask? Because they are working on JTL. JTL IS LIKE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAME!!! Do you realize how they have to merge these two different games into one giant MMORPG.
Where have you been? Profession upgrades recently. Let's see. Merchant and Jedi recently to name a few. A Revamp? Jedi got Publish 9 and 10. Whether they like it or not, Publish 10 was also a Jedi Publish, as the devs will freely admit. Of course JTL is a completely different game, but I'm not talking about JLT here. Forget JTL like it never existed for a moment, will you? Look at the past 4 mini-publishes from Publish 10. Tell me what professions were truly fixed the most there. Oh. Jedi. But wait it gets better. Smuggler Tools in Crates were broken on Test Center pre-Pub-10-going-Live. Devs knew about it, we reported it. They LET IT SLIP TO LIVE. They PROMISED a fix in one of the next mini-publishes for Pub10 to fix it. Four mini-publishes go by, and we are still broken. Do you see a pattern here, kid? I sure do!
I think we should all have gotten an apology of some sort due to the fact that the revamp has been bumped further back, but I don't think you should have even got a REPLY from SOE because you called the BBB on them, OVER A REVAMP.
It's not just over a Revamp. I'm not mad about the revamp at all. I'm mad about being lied to for over a year. It's over a year of lies masked as promises. Fixes that were said to be worked on but never were fixed.
IF YOU DON'T WANA WAIT, CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT, IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT
It has nothing to do with waiting. I'm a patient man, and I love smuggler. I obviously doubt from your ignorance on the whole thing that you've been waiting the full year and 3 months for our profession to even get ONE of our bugged attributes fixed, have you? Yeah that's right. So when you've either been around long enough to have been ignored by the Developers at SOE or have actually come to realize whats going on, you'll finally perhaps agree with me. If you don't, then get ready for a long and boring ride of never getting the profession you were promised fixes for getting fixed.
FlyinDuke wrote:
IF YOU DON'T WANA WAIT, CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT, IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT
I'm sorry Duke but that's a pretty dumb thing to say. Sure it may be pretty effective for him to cancel his account, but if you want to change something that has great potential you have to be patient and petition higher powers that are in the position to exert some authority.
I equate this to numbskulls who say f you don't like America, leave it! When the constitution is in place as an enabler for us to change things we don't like about our country.
I think reporting SOE to the BBB is hilarious. Well Played!
Okay, they couldn't deliver on release dates. They said they'd release something at a certain point of time and changed it. Is it bad? Yes, but as far as software goes this isn't something new, this is standard operating procedure. Companies in the past have also promised patches at a certain date and pushed the release back. Does it make it any different if it's not an MMO? You've still paid for the product in a sense. Listen, I'm as pissed as anyone at the attetion Jedis have gotten recently, but it's not a "new profession". People can argue that the original path to Jedi was broken, so they "fixed" it, and then they spent considerable time afterwards fixing what was broken from the overhaul. It's hard to please everyone at once, if they immediately jumped to please us and left Jedi borked then the Jedi community would be standing outside SOE holding torches right now, and right now the "Force Sensitive" community is probably considerably larger than the Smuggler community. And while yes, we feel we're being jerked around, they're paying customers as well. Now what has SOE as a whole promised for your $15/mo? To provide an online experience...yada yada yada. Yes, they've said you can choose your own profession but where in the original documents, the ones you read when you purchase the game, and when you sign up with your credit card (or game card), does it say that a smuggler should do exactly what's said in the revamp? Believe me, I'd like to see SOE get a kick in the pants to move on the revamp as much as you guys....but the legalities of it is pretty well covered IMO. They've made promises yes, but have they deviated from the gameplay promises made on the original purchase? The ones on the box, in the manual, on the games official site? The promises the devs have made, it's nothing official, it's a bunch of customer service bull produced by lackeys meant to try and quell an angry mob. If you've ever worked in customer service chances are you may have done it at a point too. Nothing legal was produced, unless I'm wrong. If you want to go ahead and complain to the BBB then go ahead. No one is going to stop you, and I'm not criticizing you for doing so like others. You are 100% free to do so. But I hope you're not expecting anything to come of it. And be warned, SOE has cancelled accounts in the past, not neccessarily from this game, for less. They have a history. Have you read the liscense ageement in full?
Jibbrish wrote:Nerj wrote:
Have to disagree here on this, remember the posts on non-consentual PvP for Smuggler? The outrage that was done over this. PvP which is the GCW that you are talking about is a small portion of the population. While I agree that the GCW revamp is long overdue, the Smuggler Revamp should be done prior to this, as one of our lines (underworld) is usable only for the GCW. In additon, any GCW content is currentlly created by players. Besides JTL will add some GCW content too.
Although PvP is the main component for a functioning GCW it is not the only component. A functioning GCW would and should engage all professions as they would be contributing to the war. The players that have maxed their characters, done the mission, quests, got the badges etc are bored because there is no 'end game' which, i believe, and has been stated by the dev's, is exactly what the GCW is, an 'end game'. While your comment that current GCW content is created by the players is true, that is not at all what a functioning GCW would or should be. Right now we fight one meaning skirmish after another, with no relation between them, contributing nothing to a greater war ... because there is no war. A functioning GCW would make battles mean something in a bigger context (ie a war), would give a reason to plant a base, to hold a base, to defend a base and to conquer a base.
Wouldn't it be nice if people actually wanted faction points?
Non PvP professions would be needed, not for a break between grind sessions but in the context of running battles where support personel would need to be defended because your side will lose without them. Musician, dancers and docs would be required in triage centers for large battles. Smugglers would be needed for base take downs and for the quick fp that will enable turret placeing and possibly faction armor (if it ever becomes useful).
And from what i've seen of JTL, i can see no more war there than is currently on the ground.
Please don't get me wrong, there is no doubt that a smuggler revamp is needed and hopefully can be done concurrently with the combat revamp and the GCW revamp but in my opinion, the most needed thing in this game is a War.
Message Edited by Jibbrish on 10-05-2004 02:02 PM
Well this is all well and good if you think the sole purpose of this game is PvP and the GCW, but it isn't. There is more to this game than PvP and the GCW and just because it is important to you, doesn't make it so. Of course, from your limited perspective, that of PvP and the GCW being the sole focus of the game (and don't get me wrong I'm not criticizing you for your preference, merely trying to point out it is a preference that shades your perspective) then a smuggler revamp is not that important, BUT, if someone doesn't prefer PvP, and doesn't really want to have anything to do with the GCW, a smuggler revamp is more important. For example, if you are interested in role playing a smuggler revamp is very important because it is hard, if not impossible to role play a character who really has nothing to do.
I understand, from your post, PvP and GCW is important to you, and consequentially, your views on the revamp are based on that preference, but you are in error if you think your preference and your perspective should be or is the only one. This game is more than a grand PvP melee. In fact, I think one of the main problems with this game is that it attempts, though admirably, to be three games in one: Unreal, Myst and the Simms (all chosen at random to make a point). The problem is this game draws from all those types of gamers, who are vastly different people and who have vastly different perspectives and needs. SOE, in all fairnesss, has probably bitten off more than they can chew and are in the unenviable position of trying to please everyone. The sad thing for me is they seem to have made a choice that jedi should be given more attention than any other character class, and my biggest concern behind the revamp, is that this game will eventually change into Jedi Wars Galaxies and all other character classes will become merely serfs and glorified NPCs for the jedi.
Now, personally I think SOE has a preference for attending to the needs and concerns of the PvP element of the game, which may be profitable in the short run, but I think not so in the long run. PvPer's are the first to jump ship and with things like Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 and other PvP games coming soon or now out, I know those people will jump ship. I think if they put as much effort into augmenting the roleplaying part of this game, remember this is supposed to be a Massive Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING GAME (caps for emphasis, not shouting). If they spent as much time making roleplaying possible and fun, in the long run, this game would have a lot more success. Roleplayers invest in a character and the environment, and, IMHO, are more likely to stick with a game in the long run.
If you look at the revamps and professions tweaks in the last year and you'll find a majority of them directly deal with PvPing. Dancer and musician buffs came at the time PvP was being dominated by mind attacks, the same for chef foods, for example. It seems the devs have made their choice and will support PvP over everything else, which explains why the smuggler revamp (or any fixing of the many problems with the profession) is so unimportant. Smuggler is of no consequence, really in PvP, so why should they put any effort into fixing it.
But you know, what really upsets me isn't the timing of the revamps or the special treatment other professions or types of game play have had, but the fact, and I do mean fact, that SOE and its representatives have lied to us more than once.
I don't mind them having a preference, I just wish they would be truthful about it and stop saying they really care about smuggler. Their disingenuous attitude makes me sad...I would have expected more honesty and integrity from a product with the Star Wars label on it.
Actually, i'm not a big PvP'r. Not because of some percieved need for a combat balance but because i'm not into spending my time in game perfecting a combat template and searching for CA's & AA's. That doesn't appeal to me at all. So your comments on my 'limited perspective' or your perception of my 'prefrance' are wrong.
The GCW isn't just about PvP (see my post). I'm talking about an 'end game' that is on going and can include all professions, all players, is engaging, has a built in risk / reward that will affect many and various aspects of gameplay and once put in by the dev's will, for the most part, run without their constant supervision.
I play 2 toons that are essentially maxed profession wise. I've built them into characters that i like as they are and i don't intend to change them to free up points to play in a village anymore than i would to grind 32 professions. What i would like to see is the opportunity to take part in the war but first it has to be there. That includes role play opportunities but isn't limited to that. Like you said, this game appeals to people that play it a million and one different ways. That is what needs to be kept in mind for the GCW revamp, make it large enough to appeal to all of those players, not linear to the point that only one type of player is interested. Engage people and give them a reason to participate but let them participate in their own way.
A smugglers revamp has to happen and the sooner the better.
A GCW revamp is required even more though, there needs to be an on going 'end game' to keep the 'veteran' players and the GCW is it.
PS - Sorry, i know this is the smugglers forum and maybe this isn't the best place for this. I'm a smuggler though and regularly go through here. I saw the posts regard that evil interview and the comments about the GCW revamp and had to throw my 2 cents in ... a few times ... i think i'm at about a dime now. I'll try to be quiet, k?
Message Edited by Jibbrish on 10-06-2004 12:49 PM
Jibbrish wrote:Actually, i'm not a big PvP'r. Not because of some percieved need for a combat balance but because i'm not into spending my time in game perfecting a combat template and searching for CA's & AA's. That doesn't appeal to me at all. So your comments on my 'limited perspective' or your perception of my 'prefrance' are wrong.
The GCW isn't just about PvP (see my post). I'm talking about an 'end game' that is on going and can include all professions, all players, is engaging, has a built in risk / reward that will affect many and various aspects of gameplay and once put in by the dev's will, for the most part, run without their constant supervision.
I play 2 toons that are essentially maxed profession wise. I've built them into characters that i like as they are and i don't intend to change them to free up points to play in a village anymore than i would to grind 32 professions. What i would like to see is the opportunity to take part in the war but first it has to be there. That includes role play opportunities but isn't limited to that. Like you said, this game appeals to people that play it a million and one different ways. That is what needs to be kept in mind for the GCW revamp, make it large enough to appeal to all of those players, not linear to the point that only one type of player is interested. Engage people and give them a reason to participate but let them participate in their own way.
A smugglers revamp has to happen and the sooner the better.
A GCW revamp is required even more though, there needs to be an on going 'end game' to keep the 'veteran' players and the GCW is it.
PS - Sorry, i know this is the smugglers forum and maybe this isn't the best place for this. I'm a smuggler though and regularly go through here. I saw the posts regard that evil interview and the comments about the GCW revamp and had to throw my 2 cents in ... a few times ... i think i'm at about a dime now. I'll try to be quiet, k?
Message Edited by Jibbrish on 10-06-2004 12:49 PM
While it may be true GCW isn't all about PvP, although on my server and in my experience it is, I do not think this game is all about the GCW. This game is about living in the Star Wars Galaxy. I think many people, myself included, play this game without any concern or interest in the GCW. I support your right to want to participate in the GCW if that's what you like. But do you think it is possible for people to play this game without getting involved in the GCW? Personally, I'd like to get involved in a real underworld, which is why I wanted to be a smuggler. I don't really want to get involved in the GCW. I want to smuggle. I want to hang out in seedy bars and try and evade the authorities. I really don't care who wins the GCW because they are both fighting for the right to enforce the very laws I want to live outside, so you can see why I don't care about the GCW. It's all meet the new boss, same as the old boss to me...unfortunately, being me (a smuggler) doesn't mean much right now, but I have hopes that keep me playing the game running janta missions to raise money to buy a yt-1000.
And don't apologize for putting your two cents in, I think, perhaps, you misunderstand me. I am not arguing or flaming you, just pointing out my perspective, sharing my views, which I think, don't really jive with your statements on the place and importance of the smuggler revamp. One of the problems with forums is it is impossible to effectively communicate tone, and, all too often, people interpret tone to the worst possible end of the spectrum. I'm sorry if you interpreted my tone in an adversarial sense for I didn't mean it in that way. I was being argumentative, but not in an aggressive or negative way. I believe it is possible for people to discuss things and have differing points of views on things without it turning into a battle. If you interpreted my tone as being combative, I apologize. I did not mean it in that way.
You have just as much right to post here as I do and your opinions are just as valuable as mine, and I respect you taking the time to discuss them. I think the longevity of this game depends on the relationships of the players and think the more respectful we treat each other, the better the game would be.
Mind reading me what's on the box exactly? I don't have one at work.
kingfarooq218 wrote:
let me sum up the case for false advertising...
Of the listed professions on the box it states Smuggler. I have yet to see any smuggling of any type occur in game. Flame away flame flamers, but the thruth is that SOE says that you can purchase the game and play a profession like Han Solo, and that functionality does not exist anywhere in this game.
Technically you can be a smuggler, if in title only. The box didn't lie to you. You can try to sue them for false advertising, but you have no grounds. Also could you read me the line about Han Solo?
Han Solo didn't do much smuggling in the movies either, except transporting a Jedi, a whiny brat and two droids across the galaxy. But if you get JTL you can do that as well.
I hate to say it, because I know I'm going to get criticized for saying it. But a company like SOE doesn't responde to harshly worded emails or angry forum posts, not even online petitions. If you want to prove a point to a company like that, you have to hit them where it hurts, the bank accounts. And unfortunately it doesn't take just one or two customers cancelling accounts to make a statement, it takes a group.
Shrendyc wrote:
Duke, calm down. He reported them because as a customer, he's been paying money to play a profession that is broken but has been promised to be fixed "right around the corner." When I started playing the game in september, this profession was all i wanted to play. At that time, this profession was told that we were in the need of the most love. So I continued to pay to play this game, since my profession was going to be fixed any moment now. And I continued to pay and play, and they would continue to tell the community that we were going to be fixed soon.
Over a year later and we are in worse shape than what we started with. If they would have been honest and said "Your profession isn't even on the radar - sorry fellas but we have more important things to address than you. We'll get to you when we're darn good and ready." then no one would have a right to complain about not getting revamped. But they continually lied to the paying customer about a service they were paying for. Had I been told that this profession was only going to suffer nerfs for a year with no new content or improvements, then I may have dropped the game until such time that it was indeed fixed. At least I would have had the option to choose. Instead, SOE strung me along, as well as all the other smugglers, happily taking my 15 a month and not delivering on statements made directly to us via these boards.
Its a form of false advertising. Face it, telling us we're in the need of the most love, green marine is assigned to us to revamp us, etc etc, and then when its time to get our revamp we're pushed back and pushed back ad nauseum, is lying. Pure and simple. If I would do that to a client in my RL business (architecture), telling them I would deliver their drawings by a certain date, then request an extension, then another, then another, I would suspect that I would not only lose the client but also get sued for wasting their time and have to pay damages for their not being able to meet any schedule they had based on my performance.
He had every right to report them to the BBB in my opinion. More smugglers should do the same - it might prompt them into taking care of the non-jedi paying customers. Oh and one more thing - I pay my monthly fee for the care and feeding of SWG, not the development of JTL. If the developers from SWG are working on JTL, then my money is not being used for what I pay for, which is improvements to the current game. My JTL payment should pay for JTL itself. So to say that they are working on other coding and JTL and all, if that is what they are doing with my developers, is fraud, too.
/Agree 100%
In any other business this would have class action law suit written all over it. Why not here? Just like Shrend stated we are paying for a product that was stated on numerous occasions would be fixed by a certain time only to have them keep changing that statement. That IHMO constitutes fraud. And just like Shrend stated I to pay my money every month for the care and feeding of SWG, I never agreed to any kind of contract or EULA that stated that my money would be diverted from the continue fixing and improvement of SWG to the development of JTL. I pay for SWG and as such have the right to expect them to fix the product I am paying for.