Smuggler Archive
Thread: Underworld Discussion Thread
lurdanta
Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:08 am
#14
Well, one thing I've thought about with respect to the many suggestions about adding a criminal faction is how it would work and it seems to me faction could work in two not mutually exclusive ways. In the Underworld, you have two kind of people to worry about, rival gangs and the cops.
First, rival gangs. I don't think there should be covert with respect to rival gangs. Everyone in the Underworld knows everyone, so how could you hide? This is currently the way things are with respect to NPCs already, often frustratingly so. For example, if I have +5000 Jabba Faction and have earned his badge of trust twice, shouldn't his employees stop attacking me? I understand why the Valarians do, but...so in this system members of opposing criminal factions would be attackable by other members once they reached a certain level of prominance in the faction. Something along the lines of everyone knows John Gotti, but not everyone knows his local and low level associates. So in this system, as you rise in the criminal faction, you gain fame and are visible. Now to address the issue of not forcing people to PvP, who don't want to...first, you don't have to join a faction and second, you don't get permanent overt until a high level in the faction kind of like Jedi. I also think people should be able to join a police faction, in much the same way as you can join the CorSec as a pilot and take missions enforcing the laws and keeping space safe.
It seems to me being "overt" in the Underworld Faction system, with respect to the cops, would be like being a wanted person. Now it seems to me this kind of overtness would work on a lot of levels, which is to say there could be different levels. There are local crimes, planet crimes and galaxy wide crimes. I think at the core of any Underworld redesign is the issue of crime. There should be crimes, and repercussions beyond the I failed a scan and now I'm overt for a bit. I think it would be more like I have a price on my head on Corellia, can't go there for a while because I was caught slicing the BH terms or carrying a couple of crates of Muon. On the other hand, maybe you are only wanted in Coronet, so Tyrena cops don't care. And at the top of the list would be crimes against the Empire, which means not only are all Imps after you, but so are the police forces of every jurisdiction...say from taking a mission to break into the Emperor's Palace and steal his collection of beanie babies. (C'mon we all know the Emperor is into them.)
Now this brings up the issue of incarceration. I highly support the introduction of prison sentences for certain crimes. If you get sent to prison, you can send word out through the criminal grapevine, a new underworld in game forum I propose which would be where we could pick up smuggling missions, find out where to get spice to smuggle (I support getting rid of spice crafting and making it a smuggled item), and pick up prison break missions.
Prison break missions would require group action and the prisoner could set the mission payoff, criminal faction rewards would also be given for success. There are already prisons in game, why not put them to use in the new Underworld. I think any logical implementation of an Underworld should also require the development of a counter faction other than rival gangs. You can't have criminals without cops. And if player characters can play criminals, they should be able to play cops as well.
Since some professions get to place profession specific structures (i.e. cantinas and medical centers), shouldn't smugglers get the ability to place things like safehouses or criminal lairs? I think it would be nice if the Underworld revamp allowed us to place smuggler specific structures along these lines.
First, rival gangs. I don't think there should be covert with respect to rival gangs. Everyone in the Underworld knows everyone, so how could you hide? This is currently the way things are with respect to NPCs already, often frustratingly so. For example, if I have +5000 Jabba Faction and have earned his badge of trust twice, shouldn't his employees stop attacking me? I understand why the Valarians do, but...so in this system members of opposing criminal factions would be attackable by other members once they reached a certain level of prominance in the faction. Something along the lines of everyone knows John Gotti, but not everyone knows his local and low level associates. So in this system, as you rise in the criminal faction, you gain fame and are visible. Now to address the issue of not forcing people to PvP, who don't want to...first, you don't have to join a faction and second, you don't get permanent overt until a high level in the faction kind of like Jedi. I also think people should be able to join a police faction, in much the same way as you can join the CorSec as a pilot and take missions enforcing the laws and keeping space safe.
It seems to me being "overt" in the Underworld Faction system, with respect to the cops, would be like being a wanted person. Now it seems to me this kind of overtness would work on a lot of levels, which is to say there could be different levels. There are local crimes, planet crimes and galaxy wide crimes. I think at the core of any Underworld redesign is the issue of crime. There should be crimes, and repercussions beyond the I failed a scan and now I'm overt for a bit. I think it would be more like I have a price on my head on Corellia, can't go there for a while because I was caught slicing the BH terms or carrying a couple of crates of Muon. On the other hand, maybe you are only wanted in Coronet, so Tyrena cops don't care. And at the top of the list would be crimes against the Empire, which means not only are all Imps after you, but so are the police forces of every jurisdiction...say from taking a mission to break into the Emperor's Palace and steal his collection of beanie babies. (C'mon we all know the Emperor is into them.)
Now this brings up the issue of incarceration. I highly support the introduction of prison sentences for certain crimes. If you get sent to prison, you can send word out through the criminal grapevine, a new underworld in game forum I propose which would be where we could pick up smuggling missions, find out where to get spice to smuggle (I support getting rid of spice crafting and making it a smuggled item), and pick up prison break missions.
Prison break missions would require group action and the prisoner could set the mission payoff, criminal faction rewards would also be given for success. There are already prisons in game, why not put them to use in the new Underworld. I think any logical implementation of an Underworld should also require the development of a counter faction other than rival gangs. You can't have criminals without cops. And if player characters can play criminals, they should be able to play cops as well.
Since some professions get to place profession specific structures (i.e. cantinas and medical centers), shouldn't smugglers get the ability to place things like safehouses or criminal lairs? I think it would be nice if the Underworld revamp allowed us to place smuggler specific structures along these lines.
Knightcrest
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:16 pm
#15
Maybe allow Smuugler's to craft/issue forged ID's in order to grant Neutral players the ability to factionally align for a temporary status for PvP or to trade to a factional overt player?
I would like to see various neutral factions i.e. Hutt, Valerian, Nym, RSF, CorSec...
Would like to see the Spice crafting tree go away and have smuggler missions that start on ground, lead to a space transport mission, and resolve on the ground in order to aquire the spices and add smuggling mission difficulty to the underworld in order to aquire the more high end spices.
Use the new tree abandoned by spice crafting to add intrade craftelements skills of the afore mentioned ID forging for players and/or ships. The abilty to move people past scans and hide goods, unlock storage bins in MP ships (your own only), insert ideas here.
The jawa fortress should pay more out because of transportation cost and the effort to get here. Much more online with the space loot payouts, but probably not quite so high and gaining bonuses to haggling as you proceed up the underworld tree. Low payouts at underworld I and getting increasingly higher as you get to Master Smuggler.
Underworld might also leave a little bigger discount for factional items (not FP, just the items) to make it a little easier and cheaper to the players to get a set of factional armor in order to help promote a more star wars feel.
Ternque01
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:39 pm
#16
I think creating different neutral faction is the key, like the post above me points out.
These could be Corsec, Fed-dub, Valarian, Hutt, and other authority and criminal factions. 
It would be cool to see a smattering of faction perks and structures to go along with it like Casinos instead of GCW bases. You could make Corsec outposts be a Corsec kinda base.
It would also be cool if you could grant people of the criminal faction cool perks like robbing other players of credits (this COULD piss some people off) or tie them into the regular missions that are given to normal professions. For example, instead of a combat mission terminal assigning the mission of "go kill these weak NPC thugs at this waypoint", have them grant missions about 1,000 time more interesting: "go kill a certain number of Jabba factioned players. They have been bothering local moisture farmers. Good luck finding them"!!! These missions would grant very very nice rewards or payouts. At any rate, it will give combat professions something to do beyond reaching master or just grinding for money!
Furthermore, by placing criminal players on normal combat-profession mission terminals, you make their criminal lives pretty damn dangerous.
Perhaps make it so that only Corsec and other authority-factioned players can take these missions to keep the peace.
At any rate, the hope is to not cut into the market that BH's have by letting others eliminate other players.
At any hope, the idea of putting criminals on regular mission terminals will bring into the game one VITAL aspect of Star Wars: common citizens having to band together against a dangerous galaxy in order to protect themselves from scum and villiany.
Oh yea, you could also put missions on entertainer mission terminals. Have the description read, "Lord Jabba needs his men refreshed for battle. Find his men (Jabba-factioned players), entertain their tired minds". This mission might require an entertainer to heal a total of 1500 battle fatigue from Jabba-factioned players in order to be successful. This is a REALLY cool idea because entertainers will now be tasked with finding the seedier parts of the galaxy and risking their neck to find and entertain them!
WillburWright
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:47 pm
#17
Onthe Subject of more Underworld factions:
Hutt Faction-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Tatooine
Allies: Smuggler's Alliance
Enemies: Black Sun
Purpose: The Hutt Crime faction has a vast network of Smugglers, Bounty Hunters, Assassins, and various other criminals. Currenly under the leadership of Jabba the Hutt, it is based on Tatooine.
Requirements: Positive Hutt faction
Smuggler's Alliance----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Tatooine
Allies: Hutts, Nym, people who can afford their services.
Enemies: Bounty Hunter's Guild, Black Sun
Purpose: An Alliance of Smugglers. Sorta like a Smuggler's union.
Requirements: You must be a Smuggler with Underworld IV.
Valarians------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Only Tatooine
Allies: Black Sun
Enemies: Hutts, Smuggler's Alliance
Purpose: Just a criminal gang limited to the Tatooine sector. Chief competetor of Jabba's enterprises on Tatooine.
Requirements: Positive Valarian Faction
Black Sun------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Naboo
Allies: Valarians
Enemies: Hutts, Smuggler's Alliance
Purpose: The largest criminal network in the galaxy.
Requirements: Positive Black Sun Faction
RSF--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Only Naboo
Allies: CorSec
Enemies: Smuggler's Alliance
Purpose: These are the "cops" of the Naboo system. (Naboo, and its moon, Rori)
Requirements: Positive RSF faction, cannot be a Smuggler or Bounty hunter.
CorSec---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Only Corellia
Allies: RSF
Enemies: Smuggler's Alliance
Purpose: The "cops" of Corellia. (Talus is another planet in the Corellian system, they have their FedDubs)
Requirements: PositiveCorSec faction, cannot be a Smuggler or Bounty hunter.
Corellian Gang (thinking of a name) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Only Corellia
Allies:
Enemies: CorSec
Purpose: A gang, similar to the Valarians of Tatooine.
Requirements:
Bounty Hunter's Guild--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Naboo
Allies: Anyone who can pay.
Enemies: The hunted
Purpose: An organization of Bounty Hunters.
Requirements: Must be a Bounty Hunter with Investigation IV.
Ternque01
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:50 pm
#18
You could grant Corsec, Fed-dub, and other authority factioned players the ability to institute a contraband scan on a crimina-factioned player (hell even normal citizens) once a day. To prevent griefing, do not allow a player to be scanned by the same person more than once every three days.
You could also do the opposite for criminal players. Allow them to conduct the opposite of contraband scans on other players. Let them rob! Of course, robbing actual items would be out of the question, as some items can cost 10's of millions to a player. Instead, allow the robbery of credits, but only in small amounts no greater than 1,000 credits. To prevent griefing, allow a player to be robbed at most once every three days by ANY criminal player.
Players who are robbed can then report the player to BH terminals or perhaps Corsec or Imperial NPC authorities. After the victim has reported his/her thief, that theif's visibility will increase. Hell, you could make robbing another player automatically increase the criminal's visibility without having to tell the police.
Anyways, it would be cool if criminal players could actually do thing criminal, but meh. It would also be cool if other players could actually DO something about it! It is a good step to building a believable underworld.
WillburWright
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:51 pm
#20
Ternque01 wrote:
You could grant Corsec, Fed-dub, and other authority factioned players the ability to institute a contraband scan on a crimina-factioned player (hell even normal citizens) once a day. To prevent griefing, do not allow a player to be scanned by the same person more than once every three days.
You could also do the opposite for criminal players. Allow them to conduct the opposite of contraband scans on other players. Let them rob! Of course, robbing actual items would be out of the question, as some items can cost 10's of millions to a player. Instead, allow the robbery of credits, but only in small amounts no greater than 1,000 credits. To prevent griefing, allow a player to be robbed at most once every three days by ANY criminal player.
Players who are robbed can then report the player to BH terminals or perhaps Corsec or Imperial NPC authorities. After the victim has reported his/her thief, that theif's visibility will increase. Hell, you could make robbing another player automatically increase the criminal's visibility without having to tell the police.
Anyways, it would be cool if criminal players could actually do thing criminal, but meh. It would also be cool if other players could actually DO something about it! It is a good step to building a believable underworld.
I love it! We think alike.... 
I was just getting the bare bones set out.
Nicolas_Frost
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:53 pm
#21
WillburWright wrote:Corellian Gang (thinking of a name)-Nyax Cultists?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Location: Only CorelliaAllies: NoneEnemies: CorSecPurpose: To follow Lord Nyax beyond death?
Nicolas_Frost
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:56 pm
#22
Ternque01 wrote:You could grant Corsec, Fed-dub, and other authority factioned players the ability to institute a contraband scan on a crimina-factioned player (hell even normal citizens) once a day. To prevent griefing, do not allow a player to be scanned by the same person more than once every three days.You could also do the opposite for criminal players. Allow them to conduct the opposite of contraband scans on other players. Let them rob! Of course, robbing actual items would be out of the question, as some items can cost 10's of millions to a player. Instead, allow the robbery of credits, but only in small amounts no greater than 1,000 credits. To prevent griefing, allow a player to be robbed at most once every three days by ANY criminal player.Players who are robbed can then report the player to BH terminals or perhaps Corsec or Imperial NPC authorities. After the victim has reported his/her thief, that theif's visibility will increase. Hell, you could make robbing another player automatically increase the criminal's visibility without having to tell the police.Anyways, it would be cool if criminal players could actually do thing criminal, but meh. It would also be cool if other players could actually DO something about it! It is a good step to building a believable underworld.
A TEF too, perhaps? Only give the person robbed the first strike. And the TEF only occurs if they realized they've been robbed.
WillburWright
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:57 pm
#23
I was thinking about having a Nyax Cult. I was torn between something like a Swoop Gang, or a Nyax Cult....
WillburWright
Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:58 pm
#24
Nicolas_Frost wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
You could grant Corsec, Fed-dub, and other authority factioned players the ability to institute a contraband scan on a crimina-factioned player (hell even normal citizens) once a day. To prevent griefing, do not allow a player to be scanned by the same person more than once every three days.
You could also do the opposite for criminal players. Allow them to conduct the opposite of contraband scans on other players. Let them rob! Of course, robbing actual items would be out of the question, as some items can cost 10's of millions to a player. Instead, allow the robbery of credits, but only in small amounts no greater than 1,000 credits. To prevent griefing, allow a player to be robbed at most once every three days by ANY criminal player.
Players who are robbed can then report the player to BH terminals or perhaps Corsec or Imperial NPC authorities. After the victim has reported his/her thief, that theif's visibility will increase. Hell, you could make robbing another player automatically increase the criminal's visibility without having to tell the police.
Anyways, it would be cool if criminal players could actually do thing criminal, but meh. It would also be cool if other players could actually DO something about it! It is a good step to building a believable underworld.
A TEF too, perhaps? Only give the person robbed the first strike. And the TEF only occurs if they realized they've been robbed.
That sounds good. A message pops up on their screen: You've been robbed by XXXXXXX, type /confront to attack.
No pop up windows, too obvious.
Obono
Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:17 pm
#25
Quick question about the underworld factions: How would they interact/relate to the Imps and rebs? You would think they might be concerned with various criminal factions having turf wars on their planets.
WillburWright
Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:20 pm
#26
Ternque01 wrote:
WillburWright wrote:
Like zones of control? (More like "turf" of control).
This is getting good....
I think I'll just write up a big doc on this.
Well I'm not sure I like the turf control idea. It could be cool, but how are you going to have criminals robbing and authorities scanning in the same area if there are only certain areas they can do it in? Well, maybe that is not what you meant.
Zones of control would be really awesome if depending on how many successful robberies or crackdowns happen in an area determines it's crime/cop alignment. Areas that fall under police control would have tough NPC's stationed at random points in their turf, as well as the NPC cities in that region as well. Criminal areas would have tough thugs placed there too!
That's what I meant.