Smuggler Archive
Thread: A Decidedly Unpopular Opinion
Korrack
Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:32 am
#14
Nounverber wrote:
I play the character as a rogue and a scoundrel. Han Solo is my hero. Oh and by the way, he shot first.
What I am not is a thief. Nor do I want to be a pirate. Swashbuckling silver-tongued merchant, sure, but not a pirate.
Your post was very well written and had some very valid points. The entire game DOES need fixing, and when everyone gets fixed, the game WILL get better. I agree. The Combat Update and GCW Revamp should handle a majority of what you want. Then they can start tweeking individual professions, hopefully Smuggler will be first.
I do need to make comment on this section of your post I quoted tho...
From the Empire Strikes Back Script:
EXTERIOR: LANDING PLATFORM -- DOOR OF MILLENNIUM FALCON
HAN: See? My friend. (to Chewie) Keep your eyes open, okay?
Chewie growls as Han walks down the ramp. Lando and his men
head across the bridge to meet the space pirate.
EXTERIOR: CLOUD CITY -- LANDING PLATFORM
Lando stops ten feet from Han. The two men eye each other
carefully. Lando shakes his head.
LANDO: Why, you slimy, double-crossing, no-good swindler! You've got a
lot of guts coming here, after what you pulled.
Han points to himself innocently, mouthing, "Me?"
Lando moves threateningly toward Han. Suddenly, he throws
his arms around his startled, long-lost friend and embraces
him.
LANDO: (laughs) How you doing, you old pirate? So good to see you! I
never thought I'd catch up with you again. Where you been?
The two old friends embrace, laughing and chuckling.
Both Lando and Han are refering to each other as pirates. Pirate does not necessarly mean "Arrrgh yee matees!" and sailing ships and eye patches and parrots. A modern pirate is a person robbing seagoing vessels or smuggling goods from one country to anotherfrom his speed boat. He uses a machine gun instead of a sword. 100s of ships are robbed and people murdered by real life pirates and tons of drugs and items are smuggled, even today.
The same comparison can be made into space. Han and Lando are space pirates (not to be confused with space balls). Han is refered as one as part of the narrative in the script, and Lando refers to Han as part of actual speach. Since Han is a smuggler and is refered to as a pirate by a friend, ergo, aren't we all pirates?
Food for thought.
Message Edited by Korrack on 11-19-2004 10:35 AM
HythosSWG
Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 am
#15
WesBelden wrote:
That's why the CU is being done first. It's a huge change to the way combat and relating systems work. All that will be done and tested before the profession revamps, of which Smuggler will be one.
I've got 10 space-bucks that says Chef and Doctor will be"revamped" durring the Combat Balance... TK + Rifle willgo down the shoots at the same time. Then AFTER, they'll go through Bounty-Hunter first so that the whiners can compete with Jedi that they're reallynot suppose to be able to... We'll see Squad Leaders follow pace, but I'd suspect that somewhere around MAY 2005 we'll hear an update from GreenMarine stating that they're collecting data on what we'd like to see.
This is just my optimistic view...
Boycarino
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:16 am
#16
I respect your opinion. I really do.
I don't agree though.
But what really bothered me was the way you talked about the smuggler community. I think that we as a community are one of the tightest in the game. I automatically feel a kindred with Master Smuggler I see in game. Regardless of faction. In some cases I am more loyal to my smuggler brethren than I am to the Rebellion. I don't see spoiled children here. I see frustration yes. I see people ready for something they deserve and have been promised. The ideas we have here are elaborate at times, as they are in any other profession thread, but the crux...if you boil it down...what we want is NOT asking too much. Smugglers want to smuggle. That is it!!!! Everything else would be icing.
I hope I am right about this, but I think that the tone of these forums will dramatically change after our revamp (god willing it comes). I HOPE that it isn't like the Jedi boards where they got SO much attention and then complain all the more. I HOPE when we finally get to smuggle you hear our gratitude rather than complaining about what we didn't get. I think that the posters here are some of the most clever, the most honest, the most openminded, and the least flamey! I have noticed that valid arguments are ALWAYS given respect here. There are very few smugglers who lose their cool. As of late our boards have become more hostile, but always with a degree of humor. Always with our brand of wit!
New questions are always given attention and new smugglers are always welcome, as I was. And on the odd occasion that new people are spoken down to the vast majority of smugglers immediately come to the defense of the offended.
Anyways... Just my take. I like these boards the BEST of all. And smugglers asking to smuggle doesn't seem like whining to me. It just seems fair. Or right. Pure even.
Jibbrish
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:20 am
#17
Edited cuz Spazz re-answered below and i can! Green because it says so much and it ain't easy... bein' green. 
Viva Mos Vegas!
Message Edited by Jibbrish on 11-19-2004 01:07 PM
yimaz
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:24 am
#18
Jibbrish wrote:
FYI, Spazz did post saying he wasn't attacking the community as a whole but it was deleted. His comments are directed to the hijacking of posts saying nothing to the topic but just "Fix Smugglers".
Viva Mos Vegas!
Stop using my color, its confusing me! (jk)
Jandel-Har
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:26 am
#19
I have only one reservation about our revamp and thats if it is too good and we will be the next FOTM and there will be wall to wal smugglers. I like that we are kind of a half @ss profession, I would like to be a little more usefull however. I have been a master smuggler for right about a year now, and have loved every minute of it .I do still get laughed at about my slicing prices now and again, but my friends and guildies appriciate me and thats all that really matters.
I'd like to see spices more usefull, slicing for controllable, and something for all the pistol xp we had to get. As far as being hunted by bounty hunters, that'd be ok if we could defend ourselves without having to pick up other professions. As for us actually getting to "smuggle" , *shrugs* dont really see it happening but it'd be cool.
Just remember smuggler isn't a choice, it's a calling. (wish I could remember who said that so I could give him proper credit)
yimaz
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:36 am
#20
Dont see it happening? It is really not a tuff thing to do.
Jandel-Har wrote:
I have only one reservation about our revamp and thats if it is too good and we will be the next FOTM and there will be wall to wal smugglers. I like that we are kind of a half @ss profession, I would like to be a little more usefull however. I have been a master smuggler for right about a year now, and have loved every minute of it .I do still get laughed at about my slicing prices now and again, but my friends and guildies appriciate me and thats all that really matters.
I'd like to see spices more usefull, slicing for controllable, and something for all the pistol xp we had to get. As far as being hunted by bounty hunters, that'd be ok if we could defend ourselves without having to pick up other professions. As for us actually getting to "smuggle" , *shrugs* dont really see it happening but it'd be cool.
Just remember smuggler isn't a choice, it's a calling. (wish I could remember who said that so I could give him proper credit)
1. mission terminals (glorifield delivery mission) - mechanics are already in game just need smuggler terms and missions in criminal theme parks.
2. NPC quest - mechanics are already in game and any or all Crime theme parks are all set for this.
3. Tuffer Imperial crack down (playergood's smuggling) - mechanics are already in game.
4. Group/Jedi/Faction Tef masking (player smuggling) - mask sent is in game so the basic mechanics are there.
Message Edited by yimaz on 11-19-2004 12:37 PM
Nounverber
Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:03 am
#21
Looks like someone did some selective editing of the thread and removed my post from this morning. Let me try to come up with that again...
I want to thank everybody for what has become a well-thought discussion, and I'd like to comment on a couple of things:
My Master Smuggler is the only toon I play. I created him when the Tempest server went live, just to mess around with TKA and Smuggler, but ended up liking him so much that I never went back to any of my other characters except to trade away gift items (holos, paintings) for same on Tempest. I never followed the hologrind, settling in instead on Smuggler/Pistoleer, with a smattering of Merchant so I could run a modest mining business (as a front forsmuggler/loot items, of course). Believe me, had I known how much I would actually enjoy the character when I created him, I would have picked a more serious name than 'Spazz'.
As for my comment about spoiled children, I should have been more clear. I was not trying to imply that the Smuggler community are spoiled children, rather that the ever-present "Fix Smuggler" posts in non-smuggler threads make us lookthat way.
Anyway, seeing these responses has restored some of my faith, and for that, I thank you.
Nounverber
Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:41 pm
#22
My character is a Master Smuggler. It was the reason I created him when the Tempest server went live, and he has been a Master Smuggler for almost a year now.
I charge 100 credits per % on slicing. Always have, and the tip money by FAR outweighs anything I would have made by charging higher prices.
I play the character as a rogue and a scoundrel. Han Solo is my hero. Oh and by the way, he shot first.
What I am not is a thief. Nor do I want to be a pirate. Swashbuckling silver-tongued merchant, sure, but not a pirate.
I do not want a Smuggler revamp.
Now that you've cleaned off whatever you just spit on your monitor, let me say that again. I do not want a Smuggler revamp. Let me tell you why.
Look at the love the Jedi got. Then look at the love the Jedi got again. Then look at how neglected the rest of the game was as a result. Rather than address core issues that affected every player, they wasted months of development resources on trying to get Jedi right, only to have the Jedi community still complaining.
Imagine now how much better the game would have been, as a whole, had SOE focused instead on combat, or loot, or making player or NPC cities better places to interact with others. They could have improved systems that touched nearly all facets of the game, thereby makingthe game a better place for everybody. And now that JTL is released, and Jedi are past their second change, there are signs that the devs are starting to do just that. Yet every new thread with news of every new improvement is spoiled within minutes by the same old song:
"Fix Smuggler."
To the hundreds of people who read those threads, comments like that makethe Smuggler community look like nothing more than a group of spoiled children, and it only gets worse for anyone who happens to wander into the Smuggler forums. Petitions, complaints, and long-winded talk of magic elixers overwhelm the senses.Don't get me wrong, Ienjoy my Smuggler character, but I wonder how many people - new players to the game, perhaps -get turned off when they come looking for info. I know I sure do, and to be honest if I ever did give up Smuggler, it would be out of disgust for how I see the community acting toward SOE.
So please, Devs, don't spend another moment trying to revamp the Smuggler profession. Instead, make the game a better place for all, and in the process include the Smuggler profession as part of a greater whole.
Thank you. You may now flame as you see fit.
Zandergeef
Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:52 pm
#23
As neat as all our things are we still dont smuggle. Its hard to be a smuggler and not smuggle.
Glzmo
Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:53 pm
#24
Nounverber wrote:
My character is a Master Smuggler. It was the reason I created him when the Tempest server went live, and he has been a Master Smuggler for almost a year now.
I charge 100 credits per % on slicing. Always have, and the tip money by FAR outweighs anything I would have made by charging higher prices.
I play the character as a rogue and a scoundrel. Han Solo is my hero. Oh and by the way, he shot first.
What I am not is a thief. Nor do I want to be a pirate. Swashbuckling silver-tongued merchant, sure, but not a pirate.
I do not want a Smuggler revamp.
Now that you've cleaned off whatever you just spit on your monitor, let me say that again. I do not want a Smuggler revamp. Let me tell you why.
Look at the love the Jedi got. Then look at the love the Jedi got again. Then look at how neglected the rest of the game was as a result. Rather than address core issues that affected every player, they wasted months of development resources on trying to get Jedi right, only to have the Jedi community still complaining.
Imagine now how much better the game would have been, as a whole, had SOE focused instead on combat, or loot, or making player or NPC cities better places to interact with others. They could have improved systems that touched nearly all facets of the game, thereby makingthe game a better place for everybody. And now that JTL is released, and Jedi are past their second change, there are signs that the devs are starting to do just that. Yet every new thread with news of every new improvement is spoiled within minutes by the same old song:
"Fix Smuggler."
To the hundreds of people who read those threads, comments like that makethe Smuggler community look like nothing more than a group of spoiled children, and it only gets worse for anyone who happens to wander into the Smuggler forums. Petitions, complaints, and long-winded talk of magic elixers overwhelm the senses.Don't get me wrong, Ienjoy my Smuggler character, but I wonder how many people - new players to the game, perhaps -get turned off when they come looking for info. I know I sure do, and to be honest if I ever did give up Smuggler, it would be out of disgust for how I see the community acting toward SOE.
So please, Devs, don't spend another moment trying to revamp the Smuggler profession. Instead, make the game a better place for all, and in the process include the Smuggler profession as part of a greater whole.
Thank you. You may now flame as you see fit.
A sound opinion with some valid points.
But what is a smuggler without true smuggling? Believe it or not, smuggling is why many of us 'true smugglers' became Smugglers in the first place, not slicing, not feign death, not crafting drugs. Many of us have left since, but there are some of us still left...
WesBelden
Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:56 pm
#25
That's why the CU is being done first. It's a huge change to the way combat and relating systems work. All that will be done and tested before the profession revamps, of which Smuggler will be one.
JTGAlpha
Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:10 pm
#26
I think you are also operating on some misapprehensions about what the community is asking for. We're not asking to be PIRATES. We're asking to be SMUGGLER'S. There's a difference. Pirates steal things. Smugglers deliver things. In all of the docs we've offered the developers not one has asked for the ability to steal anything from anyone.
At the moment, we are NOT smugglers. We don't smuggle anything. Nothing is illegal. Nothing will get us in trouble, we're not breaking laws. We're not even criminals. We're nothing but buffers. We buff weapons, we sell buffs for players (well...heh...we USED to). Things need to be illegal for us to be smugglers. That's just a definition of what we do. We should be trafficking in things that we should be scared to traffic in.
Also, we DO need a revamp. Right now, much of our profession is not working, or not doing what it's supposed to. Look at FD. Right now it's useless for PvE since the last AI rules went through, and they come and attack from a kilometer away. Which means it's only moderately useful in PvP. That's a problem. It was never meant for PvP, and you KNOW all the problems associated there in. Spices are in the toilet and need a rehaul. The Underworld tree is ONLY useful for the faction perks, therest of it might as well not exist. Panic shot is screwy. The Master Box doesn't affect TWO out of FOUR trees, and only really offers three things: a slicing bump, a faction bonus bump, and a contraband evasion bump (whoppity do...does anyone even GET scanned anymore?).
So in all we DO need this revamp. Lots of our profession isn't working. We don't have a defined role in this game, not in combat, sure, and that's being fixed, but not in anything else! Smugglers need to smuggle. Because we're smugglers. That's it.