Smuggler Archive
Thread: NOTHING effects slicing! It is RANDOM. There are no hidden patterns nor changes to the system!
Syzygy-Gorath
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:15 pm
#235
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Reading is fundamental Caylin.
I said (in bold so it would be clear), I don't doubt that slicing is random. You even quoted the sentence in your post.
I'm merely saying that shouting that again and again in many different ways is not proof of your point. You are the one making the claim, it's your job to provide evidence of your assertion. We don't need to prove you wrong, your duty as the Correspondent is to provide hard data to support your claim. If you can't or won't, you've failed in your responsibility to properly inform the community. Don't expect everyone to believe you simply because of your title.
I'll say this again so that you are clear on it: I don't doubt that slicing is random. But that certainty does not come from anything you have said, and no one is obligated to take you on faith.
Clicky Oh, and by the way, the status quo doesn't need to be defended. The burden of proof is on the claimant, in this case anyone claiming that slicing isn't random.
WayneInAustin
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:26 pm
#236
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Reading is fundamental Caylin.
I said (in bold so it would be clear), I don't doubt that slicing is random. You even quoted the sentence in your post.
I'm merely saying that shouting that again and again in many different ways is not proof of your point. You are the one making the claim, it's your job to provide evidence of your assertion. We don't need to prove you wrong, your duty as the Correspondent is to provide hard data to support your claim. If you can't or won't, you've failed in your responsibility to properly inform the community. Don't expect everyone to believe you simply because of your title.
I'll say this again so that you are clear on it: I don't doubt that slicing is random. But that certainty does not come from anything you have said, and no one is obligated to take you on faith.
Clicky Oh, and by the way, the status quo doesn't need to be defended. The burden of proof is on the claimant, in this case anyone claiming that slicing isn't random.
Thank you Syzygy_Gorath!
I was just about to go find both those pages I had posted. Now let's find out how TashunkaSapa refutes this.
I can hear it already:"Just because somebody says they sliced 4100+ items and recorded the values doesnt mean they really did it." My response would be: Prove you exist and are worthy of any more words, Tashunka. Just because you say you exist doesnt make it so. Jeez.
TashunkaSapa
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:26 pm
#237
I reject your claim that the status quo does not need to be defended, as conventional wisdom can quite easily be founded on misconception (most people believe that Abe Vigoda is dead, I think Abe would disagree).
When someone makes a claim this strongly, it should be simple to provide evidence, right?
As for the clicky? The information is useful, but it's simply insufficient data - all it addresses is the type of slice and the average bonus. We don't have any data on the quality of tools used and what the specific results are for slices using tools of differing quality, etc.
I've never before seen a group of people so adamant to reject any scrutiny of their dearly-held beliefs. It's as if the concept of Devil's Advocate is unknown to many here. It's not a case of "prove me wrong", it's a case of "you make the claim, provide evidence to support it."
I am content to accept that slicing is completely random. I'm also content to craft my tools to the highest quality because I take comfort in eliminating any possible variables that I can control (isn't that why we use clamps, to control a random element?). If someone else believes that there are methods by which a given percentage or type of slcie can be obtained, they are welcome to that belief. But if I were to lead a campaign to educate the misinformed, I wouldn't go about it by simply shouting the same thing over and over again.
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
TashunkaSapa
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:32 pm
#238
WayneInAustin wrote:
Now let's find out how TashunkaSapa refutes this.
I'm not refuting Caylin's claim. The only thing I refute is your ability to comprehend simple reasoning.
A claim alone does not constitute proof, no matter how loudly or often it is repeated. Your data is informative but I don't see anything that addresses quality of tools, so it is irrelevant to any who dispute that particular claim.
In order for you to understand my position, you first need to cast aside the notion that we disagree. But you are too enamored with being confrontational and taking a smug position of superiority to notice that. You truly are a shining example of why the Devs have better things to do than pay attention to Smugglers.
WayneInAustin
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:37 pm
#239
No, moron, I am refuting your contention that all we have is a claim. We have hard data from multiple sources over a long period of time. That is far more than a "claim". If it were to come down to it, the ONLY way to prove this would be to see the code behind the game.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
I'm not refuting Caylin's claim. The only thing I refute is your ability to comprehend simple reasoning.
A claim alone does not constitute proof, no matter how loudly or often it is repeated. Your data is informative but I don't see anything that addresses quality of tools, so it is irrelevant to any who dispute that particular claim.
In order for you to understand my position, you first need to cast aside the notion that we disagree. But you are too enamored with being confrontational and taking a smug position of superiority to notice that. You truly are a shining example of why the Devs have better things to do than pay attention to Smugglers.
actnjcksn
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:38 pm
#240
TashunkaSapa wrote:
I reject your claim that the status quo does not need to be defended, as conventional wisdom can quite easily be founded on misconception (most people believe that Abe Vigoda is dead, I think Abe would disagree).
When someone makes a claim this strongly, it should be simple to provide evidence, right?
You mean to say that Abe Vigoda isn't dead?
I think I'm going to need some hard proof on this one. I think I would need for you to bring him to me in person with multiple ID's and DNA samples proving that he is indeed Abe Vigoda and that he is indeed alive and well.
Give me a break.
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
TashunkaSapa
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:45 pm
#242
WayneInAustin wrote:
No, moron, I am refuting your contention that all we have is a claim.
All that THIS thread is, is a claim. There's no data here. People have pointed to THIS thread as "proof". If the proof lies elsewhere, that is where the skeptics should be directed... moron.
Really, if English grammar is that hard for you to comprehend, you might want to refrain from using the language. It's really rich that you can call others "morons" when you can't even comprehend the meaning of what people are saying.
Octavuous
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:48 pm
#243
I think with most "beliefs" if you want to prove it you have to put forth action then test how that action compares to your beliefs. At first when I got Master Smuggler I fugured that something had to affect the results I got, I took on a crusade of my own, I experimented, I used good tools and bad tools, I used every spice in our sad inventory, I used everykind of buff and everykind of encumberance. I have satisfied myself that this stickied thread is 100% fact, I have a personal knowledge that nothing affects slicing.I suspect that it would do you who doubt this some good to experiment untill you too have this solid of a belief.
Experimentation against this kind of belief doesn't hurt you. Even today when I slice I like to do little things like chant to the powers of the force and spin around in circles four times, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't help. I haven't tried having someone blow on my tools before I toss the dice, maybe that'll be next on my list of things to try.
Put your beliefs to the test, it is then that you can know if they are based on fantasy or something else.
Message Edited by Octavuous on 08-25-2004 12:49 AM
Smuggler_Caylin
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:57 pm
#245
This is not entirely correct.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
All that THIS thread is, is a claim. There's no data here. People have pointed to THIS thread as "proof". If the proof lies elsewhere, that is where the skeptics should be directed.
While the original posts were based entirely on an observation of the data, akin to the 'grass is green' argument, there is actualdata contained in this thread.
However I do agree that this thread should not be pointed to as 'proof' but as a statement. The other clicky toward the parsed results of 4000 slices is much better for that purpose.
Example of some data in this threadbeing when I set about to test N'varra Wren's slicing method. There is data involved andwhatever else you need to know concerning the process that I was allowed to reveal.
Yet this thread, obviously, is not universal proof as we did not test while standing on our heads or at certain times of the day. In order for this to be sufficiently proven to be fact, we would have to test thousands upon thousands of combinations.
So... if anyone wants to test all this... log oh... 1000 slices per instance... just to get it statistically close to where it needs to be for accurate results, then provide it here that would be great.
See you in a few years.... maybe.
WayneInAustin
Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:59 pm
#246
This FORUM is our data. Not this thread. I will repeat again, for those of you who ALSO refuse to read what others wrote, that there are multiple threads in this forum from smugglers who have tested this. And I don't believe it is our job to go find it for you.We have been here, we've lived this, we know the data.
And now it is time to go home, and I am tired of arguing with a hypocritical jerk. If you want to stay around and argue that the entire Forum is inconsequential, then you are welcome.
Tashunka wrote: "You are the one making the claim, it's your job to provide evidence of your assertion."
So prove the following statement you made: "most people believe that Abe Vigoda is dead."
Oh, wait a minute... did Tashunka just do the very thing he is accusing us of????
Tashunka wrote: "We don't need to prove you wrong, your duty as the Correspondent is to provide hard data to support your claim. If you can't or won't, you've failed in your responsibility to properly inform the community. Don't expect everyone to believe you simply because of your title."
And how do you think he got that title, Tashunka? Maybe because he has been a steady, honest, empirical member of the smuggler community for a long, long time? Quit spewing crap trying to cover your other weak crap.
He's on to us Caylin... he has discovered our evil plan to fool the entire SWG community! All of the smugglers on this forum, many of whom have been here since Beta, are all just part of our grand scheme! Muhahaha....We really have no clue how smuggling works! We are all just smugglers in order to the drugs!
KefkaQ
Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:06 pm
#247
We are all just smugglers in order to the drugs!
Want to buy some giggledust? *shifty eyes