Smuggler Archive

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cpz wrote:

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Lord_Eoin wrote:

Arg...! I spent an hour or so writing out a whole reply contrasting Smuggler to Carbs/Rifles/Pistols but the server crashed on me so I'll condense it.

Smuggler is supposed to have more crowd controls abilites(which a daze should give up, but we have two of virtually the same ability minus a root. So we can daze him or we can daze and root..... why do i need him rooted if he can't do anything anyway!). First and Foremost, it takes more Skillpoints to become a master smuggler than master carbs/pistols/rifles(15for novice brawlerto be precise, another 14 if we oick up the ranged support tree for carbs/pistols/rifles[total of 29 for those who don't like math]).

Smuggler:

Primary Role: Crowd Control Specialist
Secondary Role: Medium Range Damage Dealer
Offense: Moderate(3)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Very Strong(5)

As a specialist we should have something the other crowd controlers get, and better at that.But we get a redundant skill of having the ability to daze and daze+root. Like i said before, who cares if the target is rooted if he can't do anything anyway.

As well as the fact that we don't have that much offensive ability. With advanced reckless shot I adverage at 500 damage or so(with a -80.00% defense debuff on myself)I give Offense a (2). Defense if low so that works at (1).Not that great, Crowd control wise, because of the redundance(and weak snare) so i set that back at (4).

Pistoleer
Primary Role: Close Range Crowd Control (Attacker Control)
Secondary Role: Opponent Damage Reduction (Attacker Modifiers)
Offense: Weak(2)
Defense: Moderate(3)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)

Offense seems low on that scale... with regular body shot(novice) i adverage about 500(which my advanced reckless master level skill is). Plus theres is quickdraw(very fast timer). Id give the offense (3-4). Defense again is right at (3). Crowd control with - attack speed, - attack efficency, - defense effency, root, area attack, and the lot, i say it is on a scale of upper level (4)

Rifleman
Primary Role: Long Range Damage Specialist
Secondary Role: Long Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Offense: Very Strong(5)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Moderate(3)

Offense seems fine with me(5) Defense seems low as well, i say (2), Crowd Control (3) as they say. Seems like its ment to be.

Carbineer
Primary Role: Medium Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Secondary Role: Medium Range Area Effect Damage Specialist
Offense: Strong(4)
Defense: Minimal (1)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)

Offense is definatly where it should be with a (4), got some strong attacks. Again, have to say that it would have a defense of (2). Crowd control is mainly area control abilitys(minus the KD) so (4) is about right.

So you have to realise, by forking out 15 more skill points, we need something else that really makes us stand out. Sure, dazes can be nice, but we don't need two of them.

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My take on the ranged CrowdControl aspects:

Riflemen: Snare [Kneecap], Short Daze [Startle]

Pistoleers: Delay [Disarm], Root [Stopping], Intimidate, Debuff [Warning]

Carbineer: KD [Charge], Snare [Crippling]

Smuggler: Snare [Restraining], Delay [LowBlow], Daze [Panic], Rooting Daze [Concussion], Debuff [Overwhelming]

I believe this makes us the best ranged CrowdController, ie a 5

Now that they've sorted out our CC abilities, they really need to look at our damage output, and ensure either RecklessShot is made more powerful than Pistoleers' BodyShot or our SmugglerPistols are beefed up a little

Message Edited by cpz on 06-26-2005 10:41 PM

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I choose MSmug/MCarb/MMarks/Novice Commando/Novice Pistol/Novice Rifle.. Agreed i have less defense then a Smug/BH or Smug/Pistol.. but i got a base GeneralRanged Accuracy of +200 opposed to +155 from MSmug/MBH/Novice Comm/Novice Pistol

• Charge Shot[KD][CC]


• Full Auto Area[Area Attack][CC]


• Crippling Shot[Snare][CC]


• Suppression Fire[Short-Term Area Snare][CC]


• Leg Shot[Increased Damage - Accuracy]


• Rapid Fire[Increased Damage]

Pistoleers also have more tricks up there sleeve.

Combat Related Abilites

• Improved/Advanced FirearmStrike[Close Ranged KD][CC]


• Warning Shot[Defense debuff][CC]


• Burst Shot[Stuns Opponant][CC]


• Disarming Shot[Attack speed debuff][CC]


• Intimidate Shot[Attack efficentcy debuff][CC]


• Stopping Shot[Root][CC]


• Fan Shot[Area Attack][CC]


• Body Shot[Icreased Damage - accuracy]


• Quickdraw[Increased Damage with a fast cooldown]

And Finally, Smuggler, Crowd Control Specialists

Combat Related Abilites

• Concussion Shot[Daze with a Root][CC]


• Panic Shot[Daze][CC]


• Overwhelming Shot[State resist debuff][CC]


• Low Blow[Attack speed debuff][CC]


• Restraining Shot[Snare][CC]


• Reckless Shot[Increased damage with defense debuff on yourself]


• Feign Death[Fakes Death]


• Last Fitch[A last resort ability, based on your health]

So now tell me, who has better crowd control(AREA ATTACKS are considered them). Also, factor in Smuggler takes 15 more skillpoints, and a redundant skill(two dazes).

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lspiderl wrote:

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Ternque01 wrote:

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fishbrains wrote:

/shrug, I'm just pissed cause from what I see on PvP on my server..concussion is the #1 thing and possibly ony thing jedi are fearing in PvP. With this change they will fear nothing.

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NO! When all ten of his buddies are mezzed, leaving an entire army to beat his ass, the new Concussion Shot will be more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Plus, if you need a Jedi taken out of the action, then it is VEEEEEERY easy to do.

Concussion shot getting changed is WAAAAAY more better.

The only difference is that you will start to see snares become muuuch more used than they used to be.

I am telling you that I will be able to neutralize 75% of an army in one shot with smuggler/commando, leaving the remaining 25% to die to my friends.

One word.

Powerful.

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OMG NOOB THERE NOT MAKING IT AN AREA ATTACK THAT WAS IN REFERENCE TO M SMUGLER?MCOMANDO WITH AOE WEAPOND OMF U NOOB WAKE UP THE NEW NERFFED I MEAN "IMPROVED" CONCUSION SHOT WILL NOT BE AOE PAY ATTINTION

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First, let me say that this kind of garbage response is completely unproductive. Get with the program man! Its comments like this that can totally derail an otherwise constructive thread.

Why not quit your personal attacks and whining and try presenting solutions to your issues, or HELPing others see flaws in their ideas so they can perfect them?

SWG isnt going to get better by calling people "noobs".

Now that is taken care of, one note about Panic Shot. Isn't it still a cone effect? If so, does that not mean we may end up with a Mesmerization(Concussion, Daze + Root) and a multi-target Daze(Panic Shot)?

It would make sense, would it not?

I haven't seen anything saying Panic will have its cone taken away, but I am willing to admit I may have overlooked something.


Anyway, my two cents(and keep in mind, there is nobody in particular that I'm saying this to). With this change, a Pure Smuggler won't be neutered, it simply means there's a change in tactics. If you don't have any levels in Commando(Lets say you're a mix of Smuggler/Shipwright/Artisan), then there are other ways to survive situations. A combat level of 54 is nothing laugh at, but you shouldn't expect to have an attack which enables you to take on high-level MObs without taking the slightest bit of damage. No-one should, at all. There should be a risk. With this mesmerization, you can take enemies out of the fight, as long as you keep from attacking them. This is a powerful skill, and should be used carefully. Not every skill is good in every situation, it may help, or may hinder. You can't get by using just one "tactic", such as root and attack from a distance. You must adapt to your situations and fight accordingly, if you want to survive.

Smuggler characters are ment to be more of the thinkers in combat(well, moreso than most other professions), analyze your surroundings and your enemies. Learn thier strengths and thier weaknesses. Turn thier strengths into weaknesses. And strike. Smuggler characters don't get many damage specials. We have Reckless for damage and Last Ditch, which only works 40% of the time max, and is only usefull when we're about to die(You could say that bombdroids are a special as well, since only Smugglers and Bounty Hunters can use them. Thats three.). Therefore, the Smuggler should make his opponent hate to fight him, due to how hard it is to actually do anything. If you are starting to get pummeled, go over that hill, or move behind that rock. Use a Stim D C (I forgot that Ds require a combat level of sixty, my bad. Cs can still be great, however) if neccessary. Don't just run in guns a blazin'. That's a shortcut to the cloner. If all else fails, run like hell. You may not win, but you get to live. Who needs reknown when you can put a positive spin on the situation and say you survived a fight against whatever odds?

Its all about acting your part, keeping your character's strengths in mind, and staying alive.

Message Edited by Nicolas_Frost on 06-27-2005 03:26 AM

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:
Now that is taken care of, one note about Panic Shot. Isn't it still a cone effect? If so, does that not mean we may end up with a Mesmerization(Concussion, Daze + Root) and a multi-target Daze(Panic Shot)?

It would make sense, would it not?

I haven't seen anything saying Panic will have its cone taken away, but I am willing to admit I may have overlooked something.


Anyway, my two cents(and keep in mind, there is nobody in particular that I'm saying this to). With this change, a Pure Smuggler won't be neutered, it simply means there's a change in tactics. If you don't have any levels in Commando(Lets say you're a mix of Smuggler/Shipwright/Artisan), then there are other ways to survive situations. A combat level of 54 is nothing laugh at, but you shouldn't expect to have an attack which enables you to take on high-level MObs without taking the slightest bit of damage. No-one should, at all. There should be a risk. With this mesmerization, you can take enemies out of the fight, as long as you keep from attacking them. This is a powerful skill, and should be used carefully. Not every skill is good in every situation, it may help, or may hinder. You can't get by using just one "tactic", such as root and attack from a distance. You must adapt to your situations and fight accordingly, if you want to survive.

Smuggler characters are ment to be more of the thinkers in combat(well, moreso than most other professions), analyze your surroundings and your enemies. Learn thier strengths and thier weaknesses. Turn thier strengths into weaknesses. And strike. Smuggler characters don't get many damage specials. We have Reckless for damage and Last Ditch, which only works 40% of the time max, and is only usefull when we're about to die(You could say that bombdroids are a special as well, since only Smugglers and Bounty Hunters can use them. Thats three.). Therefore, the Smuggler should make his opponent hate to fight him, due to how hard it is to actually do anything. If you are starting to get pummeled, go over that hill, or move behind that rock. Use a Stim D if neccessary. Don't just run in guns a blazin'. That's a shortcut to the cloner. If all else fails, run like hell. You may not win, but you get to live. Who needs reknown when you can put a positive spin on the situation and say you survived a fight against whatever odds?

Its all about acting your part, keeping your character's strengths in mind, and staying alive.

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man i love this post. It brings to mind that this game is an RPG!!!!

which i think alot of ppl forget. with a few (nameless) groups inmind

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Blixtev wrote:

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Zorron wrote:


Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?

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Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.

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Barb-Wire wrote:

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Blixtev wrote:

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Zorron wrote:


Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?

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Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.

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so instead of turning this effect off as would make sense we are forced to live with yet another pvp effect that totally makes the game into pre-cu swg??

any skill that prevents another player or npcfrom totally moving or performing an action should not be in the game.

so we are forced now to live in a situation where one group of people will be running around griefing. just end root and daze totally.

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Barb-Wire wrote:

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Blixtev wrote:

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Zorron wrote:


Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?

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Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.

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so instead of turning this effect off as would make sense we are forced to live with yet another pvp effect that totally makes the game into pre-cu swg??

any skill that prevents another player or npcfrom totally moving or performing an action should not be in the game.

so we are forced now to live in a situation where one group of people will be running around griefing. just end root and daze totally.

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Actually Barb- it was your fellow Jedi that asked for this to be fixed in this manner so maybe you should take this up in that forum. But since you are here I will tell you that Jedi will have a chance one on one now- as they cannot be rooted (by a pure BH/MS) and pummeled helplessly. The second you take damage you are free to move again.

HOWEVER- the BH/MS/Pistoleer 0004 will STILL be able to root you. I understand that Stopping Shot has a LONG timer. But I would hit a Jedi with SS and if it didn't stick I would then hit them with CS to cut my time down. Wait. maybe pull a droid. Heal. And when I had the chance try the root again and hope it sticks. /shrug.

CMs have had this ability (working as intended) for well over two months now and Jedi have had it since the CU. This is not a problem.

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Barb-Wire wrote:

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Blixtev wrote:

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Zorron wrote:


Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?

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Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.

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so instead of turning this effect off as would make sense we are forced to live with yet another pvp effect that totally makes the game into pre-cu swg??

any skill that prevents another player or npcfrom totally moving or performing an action should not be in the game.

so we are forced now to live in a situation where one group of people will be running around griefing. just end root and daze totally.

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you didnt play much other games with PvP content, do you?

Where is the difference? i see lotsa jedis griefing players in starports.. you guys just scared that your precious force cant prevent that you will get most likely killed by a "normal" class/dabbler.

Seriously, did you read the description of Concussion, and followed the Dev posts or are you just assuming? As my fellow Smugger in the post above me said: The effect from Concussion will break on Damage, same with Panik Shot. So... whats your point now? You cant do anything for 40 seconds?

Message Edited by Thomen on 06-27-2005 10:34 AM

my take on this

(1) I like the idea of CS being fixed
(2) I like the idea of it breaking on damage

I HATE the way Devs seem to be implementing this (ie; from a PvP perspective). AS a PvE player mostly, I can see the following happening....

(a) group attacks lair.
(b) lair/ NPCs whatever aggros (unless it Bols - god how boring are groups now...we used to at least kill a variety of critters)
(c) whole load of mezzes applied for crowd control..
(d) group now has 40 secs to kill everything or else we are going to get overrun by a charging pack of critters/ NPCs...if the creature takes more than 40 secs to kill (ie; anything fun), its now a 'run and heal' game of 'dodgeball'...only if you get hit, you are dead...

Now Im not saying this change isnt needed - but cant the devs implement it in a sensible way? - for example, why not introduce a skill 'daze resist?' or some kind of food that creates a delay before you can be dazed again....

probably useless ideas, but I'd just like, for once, to see a Dev reply with an augmentation to skills, rather than the removal of them (by that I mean the addition of the 'timer' for the states)

*sigh*

Message Edited by invaliduser on 06-27-2005 05:00 PM

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Blixtev wrote:

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ThetaDaAriga wrote:

when damage breaks both the daze AND the root .. why does concussion shot have a root portion? makes no sense. when something its mezzed its automatically rooted in place. or will we see sleepwalker mobs soon that walk around mezzed while there friends get slaughtered around them?

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All roots do not break on damage, any effect with a Daze in it will break the entire effect on damage. Concussion shot is a shot to fully lock something down (Root + Daze). Panic shot is just a Daze, it has no movement modifier, you can move but not do anything.

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I am having trouble understanding how having any special that breaks on damage not beinga comletely wasted special. Smugglers are all about pistols (by design) how far do you think you can go to "rest" or"get away"? 30 meters?

Not to mention that in order for our profession to have any value, you must now group with morons that aggro things. On top of that, we can no longer have a "default attack" specials or the majority of our specials get removed every 3 seconds.

What will the new "cool down" time of Concussion be? Are you reducing the coold down as well as the action cost since we will needt obe firing this more often?

You can root a rifleman or carbineer all day long and they will just laugh at you because they don't care, you'll never get outside their range while staying within yours.

I do not think youguys havethought this out. Smugglers have no damage specials (like we are suppose to) and now our specials all break on damage? How are we suppose to kill something? With our pistoleer skills?

Or are you now forcing us to drop Pistoleer (which Smuggler was created to dabble with expect for that great TKA skill point sink) and go Rifleman with everyone else in the game so we can stay outside of all NPC and Creatures combat range?

Are you EVER going to consider that confussion shot has to be an HIGHELY effective root because as a pistol profession we are limited in our range? Either that or our "snare" need to do much better then reduce speed to match our own. We cannot outrun anything in this game (PvE even if they are snared) and all a "break on damage" special gives us is a 2 second delay.

You think that a 2 second delay is "awsome"?

Message Edited by NihiMetal on 06-27-2005 02:08 PM

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Blixtev wrote:

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maxtheusher wrote:
Yea, what about Commandos? They're going to be very unwanted.

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Does fixing new Proton Rifles help with being wanted in groups with Smugglers?

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No, not if every smuggler specials breaks on damage. Smugglers will be useuless, the simple fact is people do NOT run missions for creatures that agrro and you jack the Aggro on NPCs so low that none of them aggro either.

So, how does fixing a rifle help smugglers?

Message Edited by NihiMetal on 06-27-2005 04:08 PM