Smuggler Archive
Thread: Concussion shot vs Stopping Shot?
QuantumArtist wrote:
Punj wrote:
Blixtev wrote:
Zorron wrote:
Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?
Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.
why is it we see things pushed live that clearly aren't working as intended and have to wait severtal publishes for a fix.
are you not digging yourself into a deeper hole by doing stuff like this?
sometimes i really don't understand why things like this happen,i've played alot of mmorpg's and situations like this just don't happen,surely it would be better just to pull the daze effect out till it works properly
Oh come on guys! Its clearly a work in progress! SWG has not yet reached its pinnacle! What can the Devs tell ya?
When I first created GameReformer.Com, I thought the devs were silly. Thats not to say they arent at times, and about certain things. However! You have to give them credit for the shear MASSIVE scale of the game! Its HUGE!!!
Holy cow! I had no idea! When GameReformer.Com first started to function, it blew my mind just how many people had something to say... about concepts I hadnt considered!. There were even more great ideas which contradicted other peoples great ideas! Its simply amazing how many people really care about their Star Wars experience. Every single person on GameReformer had a great idea, a fantastic vision, or superb concept on how SWG should be.
And I learned that they're all different!
For sure, there are obviouis issues that the devs should remedy immediatly, you have to give them credit for the insurmountable task they face on a daily basis. Think about it! They clock in for work just like you! They eat food just like you! They hold meeting they'd rather not attend, and deal with coworkers they'd rather not give the time of day to!
They feel just as unapreciated as you do!
Yet, they have created something of a modern masterpiece. A true pioneering marvel for this medium... have they not?
So come on guys, spare em the scorn and lets just talk about how we can play the game better OK?
yes but adding a broken special(which you know is broken) into a game is just plain stupid<full stop>
QFE
cpz wrote:
This thread has become absurd. Are we going to have to teach fellow Smugglers how to fight?
We will have:
- a snare - RestrainingShot -[slows movement]
- a delay - LowBlowt - [slows attack speed]
- a rooting daze - ConcussionShot - [paralyses]
- a daze - PanicShot - [nullifies]
- a damage shot - OverwhelmingShot
With these tools, we become very, verycapable crowd controllers. We do not need a root, we do not need a KD. I think giving us either would make Pistoleers orCarbineers redundant.
Now all you guys who seems to be complaining that we're no longer viable in combat, where are you coming from? I honestly don't understand. You can't expext Smuggler to be everything, to be a standalone kickass combat profession against all possible enemies, because none are. But with this array of specials up our sleeves, we become probably the single best combar profession to have...all we need augment our skills is a real damage shot and one of the missing CC skills, a root and a KD. These you can get for a small skill point investment into Pistols or Carbs. Seeing as KD only really operates as a slight delay and damage modifier, I would seriously recommend all Smugglers grab StoppingShot.
Yes, you'll probably struggle alone in high end PvE. But guess what, most solo players will with a single combat profession - that's the way of this wirld now. Send a Rifleman into a group of level 80 whatevers, and you'll probably see him again in the cloner. But give us a damage shot and a root, and you'll be laughing, simply by not relying on AutoAttack and changing your mindset away from SpamCentral. Learn to use the skills your profession has given you, and also be aware this game is trying to encourage grouping, so if you're worried about getting caned, hook up with a Rifleman or Carbineer and serve him up a plate of freshly prepared targets and watch his back.
We are not lethal killers
We are master manipulators, and I feel with the skills we will have, we will be the best single crowd control profession out there, and you can't ask for more than that . To do so is absurd.
Blixtev wrote:
Zorron wrote:
Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?
Didn't make in time for Pub 19 but Daze effects will not be able to be chained in the future. Similar to how you can't chain knockdowns one after the other there will be a timer on the target that prevents chain Dazing. This should be out in time for Pub 20 or 21.
/sigh...
So this means our root effect will be timed also. So basicaly we can root(+daze), ever 30 seconds or so..... Ohh yeah, that will help us alot. for 35 seconds. Till our first root wears off, then a (name your purple mob). Can stomp a new hole in us. Not to mention we will now have less crowd control then Pistoleer. As they will still be able to root.
I hate Jebi!
What the hell were they thinking?
cpz wrote:
This thread has become absurd. Are we going to have to teach fellow Smugglers how to fight?
We will have:
- a snare - RestrainingShot -[slows movement]
- a delay - LowBlowt - [slows attack speed]
- a rooting daze - ConcussionShot - [paralyses]
- a daze - PanicShot - [nullifies]
- a damage shot - OverwhelmingShot
With these tools, we become very, verycapable crowd controllers. We do not need a root, we do not need a KD. I think giving us either would make Pistoleers orCarbineers redundant.
Now all you guys who seems to be complaining that we're no longer viable in combat, where are you coming from? I honestly don't understand. You can't expext Smuggler to be everything, to be a standalone kickass combat profession against all possible enemies, because none are. But with this array of specials up our sleeves, we become probably the single best combar profession to have...all we need augment our skills is a real damage shot and one of the missing CC skills, a root and a KD. These you can get for a small skill point investment into Pistols or Carbs. Seeing as KD only really operates as a slight delay and damage modifier, I would seriously recommend all Smugglers grab StoppingShot.
Yes, you'll probably struggle alone in high end PvE. But guess what, most solo players will with a single combat profession - that's the way of this wirld now. Send a Rifleman into a group of level 80 whatevers, and you'll probably see him again in the cloner. But give us a damage shot and a root, and you'll be laughing, simply by not relying on AutoAttack and changing your mindset away from SpamCentral. Learn to use the skills your profession has given you, and also be aware this game is trying to encourage grouping, so if you're worried about getting caned, hook up with a Rifleman or Carbineer and serve him up a plate of freshly prepared targets and watch his back.
We are not lethal killers
We are master manipulators, and I feel with the skills we will have, we will be the best single crowd control profession out there, and you can't ask for more than that . To do so is absurd.
cpz wrote:
This thread has become absurd. Are we going to have to teach fellow Smugglers how to fight?
We will have:
- a snare - RestrainingShot -[slows movement]
- a delay - LowBlowt - [slows attack speed]
- a rooting daze - ConcussionShot - [paralyses]
- a daze - PanicShot - [nullifies]
- a damage shot - OverwhelmingShot
With these tools, we become very, verycapable crowd controllers. We do not need a root, we do not need a KD. I think giving us either would make Pistoleers orCarbineers redundant.
Now all you guys who seems to be complaining that we're no longer viable in combat, where are you coming from? I honestly don't understand. You can't expext Smuggler to be everything, to be a standalone kickass combat profession against all possible enemies, because none are. But with this array of specials up our sleeves, we become probably the single best combar profession to have...all we need augment our skills is a real damage shot and one of the missing CC skills, a root and a KD. These you can get for a small skill point investment into Pistols or Carbs. Seeing as KD only really operates as a slight delay and damage modifier, I would seriously recommend all Smugglers grab StoppingShot.
Yes, you'll probably struggle alone in high end PvE. But guess what, most solo players will with a single combat profession - that's the way of this wirld now. Send a Rifleman into a group of level 80 whatevers, and you'll probably see him again in the cloner. But give us a damage shot and a root, and you'll be laughing, simply by not relying on AutoAttack and changing your mindset away from SpamCentral. Learn to use the skills your profession has given you, and also be aware this game is trying to encourage grouping, so if you're worried about getting caned, hook up with a Rifleman or Carbineer and serve him up a plate of freshly prepared targets and watch his back.
We are not lethal killers
We are master manipulators, and I feel with the skills we will have, we will be the best single crowd control profession out there, and you can't ask for more than that . To do so is absurd.
Secondary Role: Medium Range Damage Dealer
Offense: Moderate(3)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Very Strong(5)
Primary Role: Close Range Crowd Control (Attacker Control)
Secondary Role: Opponent Damage Reduction (Attacker Modifiers)
Offense: Weak(2)
Defense: Moderate(3)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)
Primary Role: Long Range Damage Specialist
Secondary Role: Long Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Offense: Very Strong(5)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Moderate(3)
Primary Role: Medium Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Secondary Role: Medium Range Area Effect Damage Specialist
Offense: Strong(4)
Defense: Minimal (1)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)
Ternque01 wrote:
fishbrains wrote:
/shrug, I'm just pissed cause from what I see on PvP on my server..concussion is the #1 thing and possibly ony thing jedi are fearing in PvP. With this change they will fear nothing.
NO! When all ten of his buddies are mezzed, leaving an entire army to beat his ass, the new Concussion Shot will be more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Plus, if you need a Jedi taken out of the action, then it is VEEEEEERY easy to do.
Concussion shot getting changed is WAAAAAY more better.
The only difference is that you will start to see snares become muuuch more used than they used to be.
I am telling you that I will be able to neutralize 75% of an army in one shot with smuggler/commando, leaving the remaining 25% to die to my friends.
One word.
Powerful.
OMG NOOB THERE NOT MAKING IT AN AREA ATTACK THAT WAS IN REFERENCE TO M SMUGLER?MCOMANDO WITH AOE WEAPOND OMF U NOOB WAKE UP THE NEW NERFFED I MEAN "IMPROVED" CONCUSION SHOT WILL NOT BE AOE PAY ATTINTION
lspiderl wrote:You know what gonna be REALY funny is that when all is said and done and they nerf us to oblivian it will be all u retards taht argued SOOOOOO hard that the changes to concusion shot are soo good that will be on these same forums crying about how unfair it is that smuglers suck in combat
you just dont get it do you.
/sigh
/takes beer and pie
you dont deserve these
A) for being thick headed and not realizing the beauty of said abilities
B) for flaming when no flame is justified
/pimpslap
and i hope it hurts to
lspiderl wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
fishbrains wrote:
/shrug, I'm just pissed cause from what I see on PvP on my server..concussion is the #1 thing and possibly ony thing jedi are fearing in PvP. With this change they will fear nothing.
NO! When all ten of his buddies are mezzed, leaving an entire army to beat his ass, the new Concussion Shot will be more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Plus, if you need a Jedi taken out of the action, then it is VEEEEEERY easy to do.
Concussion shot getting changed is WAAAAAY more better.
The only difference is that you will start to see snares become muuuch more used than they used to be.
I am telling you that I will be able to neutralize 75% of an army in one shot with smuggler/commando, leaving the remaining 25% to die to my friends.
One word.
Powerful.
OMG NOOB THERE NOT MAKING IT AN AREA ATTACK THAT WAS IN REFERENCE TO M SMUGLER?MCOMANDO WITH AOE WEAPOND OMF U NOOB WAKE UP THE NEW NERFFED I MEAN "IMPROVED" CONCUSION SHOT WILL NOT BE AOE PAY ATTINTION
Message Edited by cpz on 06-26-2005 10:03 PM
Actually these changes will really screw up my commando. Sure area concussion will be cool - but then I'll have to switch weapons. How often have you done a weapon special with a flame thrower, pressed the hot key for your pistol and you are still holding the flame thrower 10 second later?
It's kind of cool that it'll totally lock down your target. It's too bad you cannot chain daze - that's an old trick in eq - lock up the encounter with a mezz till the raid group is made up (yeah 30 minute chain mez.) Even now it's hard as heck to land a concusion shot back to back. The more I think about this - the more it's clear to me that commando-smuggler is going to be uselesssince the area effects will not be chain able, and they will break each other. (Especially with that 0 point splash damage, or the 1 point flame DOT.)
Better to tell the smuggler and commando to get lost and use a MCH for 'crowd control'.
I'll just throw this in the mix. PVP usefullness ? zero. The last time my guild went out we had an observer. I can see the observer armed with a CDEF and dueling all members of the team. dazed? no problem just a little ping from a cdef will wake you up. Please don't tell me this isn't going to happen - cause if you do I'd bet you were planning on it.
Message Edited by AltharXXX on 06-26-2005 10:17 PM
Lord_Eoin wrote:
Arg...! I spent an hour or so writing out a whole reply contrasting Smuggler to Carbs/Rifles/Pistols but the server crashed on me so I'll condense it.
Smuggler is supposed to have more crowd controls abilites(which a daze should give up, but we have two of virtually the same ability minus a root. So we can daze him or we can daze and root..... why do i need him rooted if he can't do anything anyway!). First and Foremost, it takes more Skillpoints to become a master smuggler than master carbs/pistols/rifles(15for novice brawlerto be precise, another 14 if we oick up the ranged support tree for carbs/pistols/rifles[total of 29 for those who don't like math]).
Smuggler:
Primary Role: Crowd Control Specialist
Secondary Role: Medium Range Damage Dealer
Offense: Moderate(3)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Very Strong(5)
As a specialist we should have something the other crowd controlers get, and better at that.But we get a redundant skill of having the ability to daze and daze+root. Like i said before, who cares if the target is rooted if he can't do anything anyway.
As well as the fact that we don't have that much offensive ability. With advanced reckless shot I adverage at 500 damage or so(with a -80.00% defense debuff on myself)I give Offense a (2). Defense if low so that works at (1).Not that great, Crowd control wise, because of the redundance(and weak snare) so i set that back at (4).
Pistoleer
Primary Role: Close Range Crowd Control (Attacker Control)
Secondary Role: Opponent Damage Reduction (Attacker Modifiers)
Offense: Weak(2)
Defense: Moderate(3)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)
Offense seems low on that scale... with regular body shot(novice) i adverage about 500(which my advanced reckless master level skill is). Plus theres is quickdraw(very fast timer). Id give the offense (3-4). Defense again is right at (3). Crowd control with - attack speed, - attack efficency, - defense effency, root, area attack, and the lot, i say it is on a scale of upper level (4)
Rifleman
Primary Role: Long Range Damage Specialist
Secondary Role: Long Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Offense: Very Strong(5)
Defense: Minimal(1)
Crowd Control: Moderate(3)
Offense seems fine with me(5) Defense seems low as well, i say (2), Crowd Control (3) as they say. Seems like its ment to be.
Carbineer
Primary Role: Medium Range Crowd Control (Position Control)
Secondary Role: Medium Range Area Effect Damage Specialist
Offense: Strong(4)
Defense: Minimal (1)
Crowd Control: Strong(4)
Offense is definatly where it should be with a (4), got some strong attacks. Again, have to say that it would have a defense of (2). Crowd control is mainly area control abilitys(minus the KD) so (4) is about right.
So you have to realise, by forking out 15 more skill points, we need something else that really makes us stand out. Sure, dazes can be nice, but we don't need two of them.
My take on the ranged CrowdControl aspects:
Riflemen: Snare [Kneecap], Short Daze [Startle]
Pistoleers: Delay [Disarm], Root [Stopping], Intimidate, Debuff [Warning]
Carbineer: KD [Charge], Snare [Crippling]
Smuggler: Snare [Restraining], Delay [LowBlow], Daze [Panic], Rooting Daze [Concussion], Debuff [Overwhelming]
I believe this makes us the best ranged CrowdController, ie a 5
Now that they've sorted out our CC abilities, they really need to look at our damage output, and ensure either RecklessShot is made more powerful than Pistoleers' BodyShot or our SmugglerPistols are beefed up a little
Message Edited by cpz on 06-26-2005 10:41 PM