Smuggler Archive

Thread: Why we lost the Battle of the Crackdown

SanTsu
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:04 pm
#170

Oh So now you want to be a **edit**.
Well since you know everything that has gone down seen all the posts read all the responses not to mention PMs and secondary sources then I will just kowtow to your beliefs. NOT

Your just mad becuase I fronted you well get over it this thread is just one example of the crap they have been throwing my way for weeks and this is the only one I have responded to. If you begrudge me that then thats your problem.



______________________________________________________
The First Smuggler Correspondent (retired)
Johny Longshoot
Master Smuggler/ Master Gunfighter/ Teras Kasi Master
Who needs hokey religions and ancient weapons just give me something to smuggle.
Rylux
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:11 pm
#171

Who said I was mad???

I don't begrudge you from saying your piece. It is the way you say it and the way that you have presented yourself since this whole crackdown situation has taken place. You were supposed to be representing us and you have not lived up to that.

You respectfully posted a message saying you were stepping down. People respected the way you handled yourself then, being able to take the crap and keep you head held high. Well I guess you're no better than even Wepps, the person you mentioned you didn't want to be like.

Seems to me that you are even worse than Wepps because he never tried to show a different side to his forum. You lose the title and all of a sudden become a 12 year old in a matter of moments. That is what I have a problem with.

Say your piece, do it in a respectful manner, explain that what has taken place is still what you believe and that you have no regrets even if it upset a few (or many), but turning into a the type of person that just comes out flaming when 85% of the posts concerning the crackdown and your part in it weren't disrespectful is the problem here.



Traesk Kre'lar
Phoenix Squadron
Rylux
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:14 pm
#172

Well I am now done with this. You can behave any way you like now. People now see you for what you are.



Traesk Kre'lar
Phoenix Squadron
SanTsu
Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:21 pm
#173

I hope you feel better now. People will see me they way they will see me. I have no control over that nor
do I care. If you think that not dealing with people that are asking for the moon becuase of some over blown self interest is a problem then like I have said thats your problem.

If you dont like the way I handled the last weeks of my tenor thats not my problem. You might have liked there ideas but like them you had no clue what you where asking for.



______________________________________________________
The First Smuggler Correspondent (retired)
Johny Longshoot
Master Smuggler/ Master Gunfighter/ Teras Kasi Master
Who needs hokey religions and ancient weapons just give me something to smuggle.
novakaine
Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:27 pm
#174






SanTsu wrote:
I

If you dont like the way I handled the last weeks of my tenor thats not my problem. You might have liked there ideas but like them you had no clue what you where asking for.




And the great SanTsu does, even though to this day, he hasneverhad a cluewhat we were asking for.



FALLEN ANGELS
MANGUS ONE
CORBANTIS

Colonel Imperial Navy
Star of Eriadu - Captain
Banshee 1 Blackwatch
Please offer winnings to my vendor "LOOTGIRL" located at -3947 3859 Naboo
SanTsu
Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:30 pm
#175

Novakain eat me. Yea in this thread i am not holding anything back. I know what your asking for. Why dont you just ask for all smugglers to be able to fly becuase your going to get it at the same time the imp crack down becomes smuggler content.



______________________________________________________
The First Smuggler Correspondent (retired)
Johny Longshoot
Master Smuggler/ Master Gunfighter/ Teras Kasi Master
Who needs hokey religions and ancient weapons just give me something to smuggle.
novakaine
Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:39 pm
#176


We didn't ask for the crackdown to be smuggler content, We asked that the crackdown as it affected smugglers to be postponed, as what was proposed and then put in place, jeopardized and limited the professions future options.


It is my firm belief that you never put too much thought in to what we were saying. I think you got a misconception and stuck with it. Take off your stubborn/angry hat, and really go back over some of the great thought that went into some of those posts.


Message Edited by novakaine on 02-19-2004 09:40 PM



FALLEN ANGELS
MANGUS ONE
CORBANTIS

Colonel Imperial Navy
Star of Eriadu - Captain
Banshee 1 Blackwatch
Please offer winnings to my vendor "LOOTGIRL" located at -3947 3859 Naboo
CapnSteve
Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:51 pm
#177

"And thirdly what you are asking for is nothing more then play payed delievery missions
Do you really believe that players want to wast there hard earned cash so you can take
a crate of spice to yavin 4 for them.

One crate? No. A shipload (to stock a merchant) yes. Again, take a poll - don't assume."


That's one thing I still don't get. The only people who move large quantities of spice to a specific location are smugglers! I'd rather they completely seperate the current contraband system from smugglers in the hope that they'll make a more creative system (rather than one just based on randomly passing or failing) in the future.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Kauri) Indur Dawndeath - Master Droid Engineer / Smuggler (0,4,1,0)
(Chilastra) Indur Dawndeath - Creature Handler (3,3,1,1) / Smuggler (0,0,3,0)

"Next thing you know it's going to require a Droid Brain in order to make an Electronics GP Module. Sheesh." --Kollos
Solo4114
Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:14 am
#178


A few thoughts:



1.) Some of what happened may be San, some of it may be a result of him feeling worn out after banging his head against a brick wall. We just don't know, and personally, I didn't get access to the correspondent's forum to look. I DO think that one thing this makes clear is that SOE should open the correspondent's forum for VIEWING, but only for POSTING for correspondents and devs. This process needs to be FAR more transparent than it has been since it was implemented. The "Behind Closed Doors" approach to this only breeds more problems when a community is in an uproar. There may also be a side effect of keeping the correspondent's forum closed off, in that correspondents may not feel any real reason to push particular issues further. Whether or not there was a vocal minority or majority (or an even split, for that matter) on the crackdown issues, seeing what had been going on for months prior and seeing what was going on at that moment would have likely helped to crystalize the community's attitude towards the issue and the representation we were getting. If folks were able to see what was going on in the forum and see how the devs were reacting, they might have shouted down one side or the other, supported one side or the other, or felt that they were or were not being adequately represented. Instead, we were left to flounder around in the dark, which leaves room only for conjecture when it comes to discussions. This, as we can see, can lead to bad blood in the community and I do NOT blame the community for that (at least, not entirely). Consequently, I'd like to propose a suggestion, not for the smuggler community, but for the game community as a whole -- make the correspondent's boards open to public view, but not to public comment. Doing this may help alleviate some of the problems we've seen here and can only help widen the marketplace of ideas.


2.) As far as the crackdown goes and the concerns that some of us had -- (A) I personally was never beating anyone down, insulting anyone, or doing anything that I felt was NOT constructive. I voiced my opinion on an issue, I argued a point, and I stuck to my guns. That's just good old fashioned debate. If people are unable to handle a lively debate and still, at the end of the day, move on with their lives, that's unfortunate, but I won't lose sleep over it. (B) Again, my personal concerns were never that we were being denied smuggler content in the present. We didn't HAVE much (if any) present smuggler content as a result of the crackdown. My issue was always the future. Maybe it's a fantasy, and lately I've come to realize that given the attitudes of players in this game it likely WILL remain a fantasy, but I view it as an entirely attainable goal IF people are willing to make hard choices. Regardless, it wasn't about the now, it was about the concrete of peoples' notions of what smugglers can and should be doing setting permanently by virtue of the crackdown's treatment of illegality in general. (C)No one that I saw ever hijacked a post or trolled. People voiced what they viewed was a legitimate concern. It's easy to dismiss it as trolling if you don't agree with it, but again, I view it as debate. The DE threads were threads on point -- no one hijacked them, they simply voiced their opinions. The crackdown threads were on the crackdown. The effects of the crackdown on the smuggler profession were a legitimate avenue of debate within those threads. Hijacking, at least to my mind, would be going into a thread on slicing and starting up a debate about pistoleer specials. Essentially, one person starts on topic A, and you take it COMPLETELY off base into topic Q. Anyway, that's just me. (D) I have no regrets about the discussions we've had. I view them ALL as productive, even if folks disagreed with me. By discussing the issues, we all benefit. If we stop discussing them and shrug our shoulders, nothing happens and nothing changes.


3.) Rather than have people keep snapping at each other and giving each other crap, I agree that we should move on. The past is the past. We can't undo it, fix it, or change it. What we can do is focus on the future. We have a chance to make some changes now, we have a new correspondent who seems fired up about things, and we have a revamp (supposedly) on the way. It's time to take the heat off of San and put it where it most definitely belongs -- the developers. They need to know where we stand, what we want, what we think they can do about it, and why we're as pissed at this point as we are. They also need to start communicating WITH us. Now, again, as I've said elsewhere, I don't think a lot of this is to be laid at TH's feet. The correspondent selection, maybe. But you know what? Whatever. It doesn't really matter as long as the person in the correspondent position actively funnels info to the devs, is a vibrant and active member of the correspondent section, and sticks up for the profession. It could've been Kav, it could've been Caylin, it could've been ANY of us, as long as the job gets done well. Also, TH is not the reason why nothing is happening. TH is the messenger. Plain and simple. Sometimes he words his messages poorly, but I think a LOT of this is disorganization within the SWG development team, and the fact that we're a problem that is NOT easily solved. As a result, we've likely been put off and put off and put off because, well, they aren't 100% sure how to give us what we want, and they may be realizing that they CAN'T and are trying to figure out a nice "but here's a copy of our home game" solution. Who knows. We will, undoubtedly, find out eventually. But this bickering here really IS pointless. It's one thing to complain about the game world, the game mechanics, dev inaction, etc. It's another thing to give each other sh!t for stuff that no one can do anything about now. Let's just pick up, dust ourselves off, and move the hell on.

Jellydee
Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:46 am
#179

With all this drama... all of the Crackdown/Smuggler debate should have been in the Entertainer Forum.



gggggggggggggggggggggggg9WXnnnJellynnnWX




gg
gggggggggggggggggggggg
9WXnnnJellynnnWX

Smuggler_Caylin
Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:01 am
#180

Well San,


You raised some good points just before I had to leave. I think others here have sufficiently given their sides of it so my input beyong what I already contributed is not needed.


However if you want, I will address your concerns point for point should you wish, as I thought they were very good to bring up, even though you were a little overbearing in how you did so. If you act civil, I will do the same. We don't have to like each other, but maybe if we can actually start to discuss things like rational adults, we can make some headway.


I was actually late getting to campus with the last post I made. I know you couldn't resist saying that I ignored the other questions, but that is not true. I just lacked the time, chose one part of it that I found easy enough to address quickly with the time constraint, and mentioned I had to go after doing so. Sorry you felt that I was ignoring them, as it was not the case.





The Infamous Caylin Borealis - First Master Smuggler on Bria
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse!
:The Ghost with the Most:

Ryutek
Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:25 am
#181

Ok, so I lied. One more post in the thread at least because someone with a valid "debate".




CapnSteve wrote:
"And thirdly what you are asking for is nothing more then play payed delievery missions
Do you really believe that players want to wast there hard earned cash so you can take
a crate of spice to yavin 4 for them.

One crate? No. A shipload (to stock a merchant) yes. Again, take a poll - don't assume."


That's one thing I still don't get. The only people who move large quantities of spice to a specific location are smugglers! I'd rather they completely seperate the current contraband system from smugglers in the hope that they'll make a more creative system (rather than one just based on randomly passing or failing) in the future.






Not quite sure I follow you. I was stating that I don't want to be called on to move one crate of something for a player (as smuggling) necessarily, but if a player wants to move a few crates of something that is illegal to another location then yes I would like for them to have to call on my sevices. Have to may be too strong, maybe a bonus to evasion if I take it instead of them?


I would prefer to have a completely separate system as well. How about explaining a little more about what you mean so I can tell for certain if we are thinking along the same lines?





Ryutek

Former Teräs Käsi Correspondent, Circa 08/2004 to 02/2005

No longer holding out hope, SWG will never be the game we fought so hard for, that we believed so much in. Farewell friends.



[email protected]
Burr
Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:45 am
#182

*sigh*


I can't believe this tool once represented our interests in the game.





----
Nothing personal..... it's just business...
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