Smuggler Archive
Thread: Revamp Discussion: Contraband/Missions PART 2 (Solutions)
And in your previous response to me, you onlyselectivly highlighted aPORTIONmy statement in order todistorted it outragiously.
It is obvious you are selectivly interpreting my words to distort themto fityour preconceptopns, and it isnt going to work.
GKM wrote:
Ok lets ignore the PvP or PvE superiour stuff really we need to work together on this or BOTH sides will get something in the middle where as if we worked together we could have gotten better.
So PvP geared loot vs PvE geared loot. Sounds good to me.
Also I think you could impliment all "Military" type illegal stuff under the PvP risk missions as the majority of this type of equipment would be required to fight the war (GCW) which is PvP. Not sure what would be under it but it is not that strech of mind if military equipment had slicing bonus's to them (as the military usually has thee most advanced and classified weaponary) and this would also, I think, fit in with getting the general playerbase into the visiblity system as it is not changing what currently is out but adding another layer of content which would hold some more risk invovled.
Would this not be beneficial to the PC BH's also? It would give them the kind of players they would want to go after also. I mean seriously as a PC BH would you rther hunt down and kill an Artisian that happened to have a non-military sliced pistol for self protection or would you rather go up against some militant with a military sliced weapon, the skills to use it, and the will to fight back?
silversaber wrote:
GamerProX wrote:
There is already a Profession in the game whos role is to hunt down bounties and try to get the payment from that mission. That Profession is called...Bounty Hunter. So rather than use a profession in the game for what its meant to beused for, your asking for an NPC, so I see *no* problem with asking for an NPC Smuggler to help me with travel, spices, or just general type of things. No offence to Smuggler Profession, but I dont want to deal with players, I would like the choice to deal with a Smuggler PvE wise, I want that choice.
And again anotherdistorted PvP view that if we dont want negative player interaction, we dont want any interaction at all. Man, you guys are really consistant in your self imposedblindness.
I mean its only fair.
I am sorry but negative player interaction is NOT resevered just for PvP. I have heard players SPAM other players in starports, harass Merchants, and drag MOBS on top of other players as well as kill steal and ninja loot. If someone wanted to harass you they can follow you around and do ALLL of these things with NO repercussions. At least if you are a mark you are going against a known template, someone who has taken the time to find you as a MARK and engage you in combat. Not someone who shoots you because you have a TEF and an uber template designed to greif other players.
For those of you who do not want this and want to take the RISK of better loot, do some things to watch your vulnerability. You are NOT being left out, if anything you may enjoy it better than those that want to be hunted. You will play it a lot smarter, taking only those things you REALLY want and enjoy being a smuggler the best. This is what I am looking for, the down side is if I get careless and my visibility gets to high, I might take some other risks, like BH terminal slicing, or avoiding certain areas where I might get caught. If I get a jerk BH, I will be on the forums letting EVERYONE know what they are and hopefully they will have a hard time getting Buffs, Products, and/or slices. Plus, if THEY do wind up on the BH terms I might up the Bounty on them just to return the favor.
Don't let some of the BAD players ruin the game for everyone
Yeah there is bad player interaction on both sides but PvE does have a need for good loot but that need is just not as equal unless the NPC BH's they want hit you like Lord Nyax!!
Maybe infamy beyond the point of being registered on terminals should give you bonuses to your smuggling skills and underworld connections. Kinda like the Jedi thing where you participate in the PvP thing and you get bonuses to your skills the higher you rank.
I"m not saying that the PvPrs are more skilled or better than the PvErs! There is NO real skill involved in this game, you dont "block/duck/evade" like street fighter in a battle. PVPrs and PVErs are equal when it comes to their "skill" but because skills are equal in PvP the only way to beat someone or become "best" is to have the better gear (i.e. the skill enhancements) If the NPC BH's that come after the PvE BH's are equiv to Nova Troopers/ Super Battle Droids/ Lord Nyax THEN i would agree that PvE needs some skill enhancment... But I doubt thats the case.
Message Edited by GKM on 06-22-2004 03:57 PM
GKM wrote:
Yeah there is bad player interaction on both sides but PvE does have a need for good loot but that need is just not as equal unless the NPC BH's they want hit you like Lord Nyax!!
Message Edited by RellikCro on 06-22-2004 03:59 PM
RellikCro wrote:
GKM wrote:
Yeah there is bad player interaction on both sides but PvE does have a need for good loot but that need is just not as equal unless the NPC BH's they want hit you like Lord Nyax!!
What do you think of my idea of different loot (focused more for PvP combat like... perhaps introduce special stat boosters specifically for GCW, faction, and PvP related items) and military type loot (extremely high illegal) like per haps very high end slices and spices? Or spices without downer affect?
RellikCro wrote:
GKM wrote:
Yeah there is bad player interaction on both sides but PvE does have a need for good loot but that need is just not as equal unless the NPC BH's they want hit you like Lord Nyax!!
What do you think of my idea of different loot (focused more for PvP combat like... perhaps introduce special stat boosters specifically for GCW, faction, and PvP related items) and military type loot (extremely high illegal) like per haps very high end slices and spices? Or spices without downer affect?
In this proposal it would also induce visibilty to the gen playerbase for those items also.
Message Edited by RellikCro on 06-22-2004 03:59 PM
Ooooo actually that would be some cool quest. Premise could be you are a smuggler and you "get a hold of" some high tech millitary equipment for Jabba. But you decide to keep it for yourself and sell it to the highest bidder and now you are on the run from the Empire and Jabba's BH's 
If you trade it to a player you get a big old flag and you are on the BH mission terminals so you have to keep it for yourself or deliver it to Jabba for a mission reward. If you keep it for yourself you get some Jabba NPC's comming after you and if they kill you they take the weapon back to Jabba.
Message Edited by GKM on 06-22-2004 04:04 PM
I can't think of much in the way of solutions that hasn't been brought up before, but I would like to voice my support for the two types of smuggler missions and having bigger risks bring harsher consequences for failure. I think this way, it allows for smugglers the chance to choose how "into the game" they are, and it also allows those who aren't thrilled about the idea of involuntary PvP to still play the Smuggler's Game to some extent.
I'm really excited about these proposals and I really hope that they make it into the game. They will certainly add a level of fun that I am eager to partake in.
Message Edited by GamerProX on 06-22-2004 06:07 PM
Message Edited by GamerProX on 06-22-2004 06:07 PM
RougeSmuggler wrote:
I have to disagree with you on your point here. That poll is anything but an accurate repesentation of the overall state of PvP players. Theres a couple problems with it.
1) It takes into account ALL characters. Even those that have been created and never played before. The poll doesn't discount those that have been idle for a long amount of time. Speaking for myself, I have two extra characters I created, but hardly ever played. They are neutral. Yet my main is not. Now imagine if everyone else was in the same situation. The statistics get heavily skewered.
2)The poll doesn't explain a horrible dislike with the PvP playstyle, but instead points out that PvP in SWG just plain SUCKS. Currently it's unbalanced, boring, and pointless. Some classes dominate others. Rebels and Imperials use the same tactics on each other.(there is no variety in playstyle between the two). And there is no reason to Faction Combat other then to pointlessly gank an other player. Most PvPers hate this. You have to learn to differentiate between PvP and PK. PKs, like you said, just love to kill people. It's their joy in life. They're homes are frequently made on the PvP servers of MMORPGs where it is a nonstop gank fest. But MOST PvPers participate in the playstyle because it brings a new level of interaction and challenge to the MMORPG genre. Look at Dark Age Of Camelot for a good repesentation of who PvPers are. The game gives them goals to accomplish and rewards them with minor effects on the gameworld for their services. Seeing how Dark Age of Camelot is one of the prime players in the MMORPG market at the moment, I think it's silly to say that the playstyle that their gameplay provides only interests a small percentage of people.
Excuse me while I change your text to white. A lot easier on the eyes
And in responce, yes the reasons for the way the poll turned out is majorly open to interpretation. Thats why I would like a new poll with more specific question on what they play, and why.
Come on now, you've been here since release. I'm sure you've been here even longer then.
Completely true. Far longer.
You probably remember the many debates over the PvP issue.
Oh yes, I was to the eyes deep argueing with Triforcer and others on the issue.
The whole Faction system right now is a Giant Compromisewith Coverts and Overts.
A compromise that was ok at the time, but as the game has went, it has been skewed far towards PvP with the introduction of more numerous and easy to getCovert Scanners ant the anti-PvE bias the Crackdown introduced. I mean, switching Coverts to fullOvert without any say in the matter, C'mon!
Even before that, we had the Outcast system which would have been a fairly large compromise. It's sad that it never made it to release.... It's interesting to see how that would have turned out.
I was fully in favor and supported the Outcast rules heavily. I was deeply saddened that they were scrapped.
But what i'm saying, is that PvPers didn't come here and take anything away from anyone else. There are some PvPers that wish the game would be 100% PvP, with no safe zones ever. You can't ever debate with them, because they simply don't see the other side. They want to gank everyone.
True.
But over the past 4 years i've met many PvEers who are the same way on this board. They refuse to ever compromise, and many fail to see that they are playing with other players.
Most of the PvE players (me included) dont want to compromise on certain things, because when we do, we find ourselfs squeezed out of more and more of the game. We compromised with the GCW, and then compromised again. And again. Each time we compromised, we hada portion of interaction in the GCW taken away from us, to the point where we (at least I) left the GCW altogether in disgust. What happened to the PvE battlefields? What happened to the fact that Covert scanners would be rare and very expensive?
They want to be able to do ANYTHING, and go ANYWHERE, AT ALL TIMES. You can't debate with these people either, because they see any sort of restriction, even if for the good of the game, as an attack on their freedom.
This is a sticking point. Whats good for the game is having fun. When we kept having our abilities to play the game more and more restricted and taken away from us, then it becomes no longer fun to the point of having to leave the GCW altogether.
Anyone here rememeber Caella? The "model casual player".
Yes I remember her. And the Devs basicallymade her the PvP whiping post when they branded her with that title. The way the PvPres dumped on her because they were afraid that the Devs would side against PvP more because they thought she was a "model player" sickened me, and STILL pisses me off to this day.
-red
ruehs wrote:
RellikCro wrote:
GKM wrote:
Yeah there is bad player interaction on both sides but PvE does have a need for good loot but that need is just not as equal unless the NPC BH's they want hit you like Lord Nyax!!
What do you think of my idea of different loot (focused more for PvP combat like... perhaps introduce special stat boosters specifically for GCW, faction, and PvP related items) and military type loot (extremely high illegal) like per haps very high end slices and spices? Or spices without downer affect?
I think that idea is a good one. But what about the PvE'ers that like to take on the big mob's that will complain that they can't get that loot from the non-visibility missions.
ruehs wrote:
And in your previous response to me, you onlyselectivly highlighted aPORTIONmy statement in order todistorted it outragiously.
It is obvious you are selectivly interpreting my words to distort themto fityour preconceptopns, and it isnt going to work.
I did not distort it outragiously. I appologise for my misconskewing my other response but as for this tid-bit, you did say you didn't want ANY player interaction. I don't know any other way to take that then that you don't want to have any interaction with any other player in the game.
Its cool.
GamerProX wrote:
To be honest, sense a *vast* amount of players in the game want Jedi, and the BH Missions that come with them, most of the people complaining against PvP are just doing so to get a free pass in the game. I mean come on, yeah, let me do everything I want in the game with no RISK. That would be lots of fun.
A large group might, but not everyone. I for one will not worry about it. That is an advance non-starter profession and thus can have options that might not agree with the general playerbase like PvP. Just like the GCW is an option to the general gameplay. This has been beaten, to death, and the dev's have made it clear that pve and pvp will both be in the revamp. We are now working on solutions.
BH in general, is a PvP Profession, you dont pick up BH just to hunt broken NPC Marks for 30min and get 20k for it. You Pick up BH cause your hoping and hoping for Player Bounties, cause Player Bounties are 100 times more fun, NOT cause we like killing players, but cause YOUR NOT A NPC! You have a mind of your own, youcan plan and think, you can try to out smart us, you can hire help, almost limitless.
While alot of BH's might want PC bounties I know several that do not and play BH for the PvE experience of it.
Its not being Uber or Owning someoneso dont Label me!!
You guys cannot see, cause you dont understand that you have the power right now to take something away from BH community we have wanted from day one, and you have the power to give it. By even thinking about a BH NPC, your gonna have BH players freaking out, but you dont understand that and thats the problem.
I do not think anyone is taking away anything from the BH community. Right now the BH community does not have PC Marks simply because SOE wont force PvP onto the playerbases for many reasons one of them due to griefing, the other huge one is per what GM posted about the idealogical reasons (I think he said idealogical... could be wrong). In fact if you have been reading the posts you will realize we are trying to work out a way to GIVE Bh's the very thing the majority of BH Community wants and that is PC Marks but with those that want to participate in taht playstyle.
Trying to force those that wish not to participate in something is not the way to get what you want. Trying to come up with viable solutions that include both types of play is.
I would like to ask you pesonally what you think of my above proposal about military missions.
I think GM's idea for Low/High riskMissions was great! But they *STILL* complain, they want PvP removed fully. Get your awsome stuff for no risk. Forget the movies, Han vs Boba, lets not do that, lets have it be a stupid NPC you can trick your way out of. Maybe im ranking, I dont know, but I have a passion here cause Player Bounties would keep me with SWG and away from WoW, its so closeI can taste it. But I have to depend on *you* and thats not a very comfortable place to be, no more than some awsome feature for Smuggler resting on the views of BH's....and BH's are complaining about that feature cause they dont like dealing with the "possible" Smuggler stealing an item, or who knows what.
Again read my proposal and please post what you think.
I still think people who wear sliced stuff, use it, should have to deal with PvP, I dont have the answer cause I cant understand the views of people who are so against any form of PvP. I have to leave it in your hands and hope you do whats right.
I think those that wear military sliced armor and use military sliced weapons should.
Message Edited by GamerProX on 06-22-2004 06:07 PM
Message Edited by GamerProX on 06-22-2004 06:07 PM