Smuggler Archive
Thread: This is not a please read post.
I have a distinct detest for "people" for that very reason.
WesBelden wrote:
Jay: Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it.
Kay: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.
Of course we don't have "people" in the Smuggler forum, just a large group of rogues and scoundrels
Omicron2 wrote:
Tiggs wrote:
I totally get that but there is nothing I can do about what happened back then. I have come in this forum a few times and got blasted. Does it stop me from coming back? Nope, it does make me choose my words wisely when talking to this profession because every statement is ripped apart and taken 10 different ways.
I broke my rule and gave you tentative information, lets see how it goes.
I think that I can speak for most players in that we would rather be in the loop and be asked to wait a few weeks rather than be totally in the dark. I hope people appreciate the fact you are communicating and act maturely if the tentitive schedule needs to be adjusted.
This is our chance to show maturity and patience...we have been given information....lets give them a reason to continue giving it to us.
Agreed. Thank you very much for the information. However, if a choice must be made between keeping the players in the loop and not keeping them in the loop, I think the former needs to be done. Simply because players will scream when info is released and they will scream when its not released. So, might as well keep us in the know so some of us can attempt to give good feedback.
Red-Dwarf wrote:
Thank you, sorry for not making clear but that is exactly what I hoped you would do.
Tiggs wrote:
It is not my call Red.I will bring your suggestions to the people that do make the call.
Keep in mind too that code pushed to test center needs to be at a near release level of development and quality.
They really can't push something 1/2 finished to test center becuase if any semi-major changes are made (which will happen if its only 1/2 finished) will invalidate all testing and require changes and another round of testing on TC. I'd rather they take their time and to it right, rather than rush some 1/2 baked attempt onto TC and which could cause further delays.
Tiggs wrote:
Vampiric_Hoshi wrote:
So in other words Tiggs, don't expect to see slicing fixed for a good 3-6 months. Great
*sighs* No! We are on a publish schedule of 2-3 weeks for each publish to hit Live.
Tiggs, we know you're trying.. thank you.
However, I'm doubtful, because 3-6 months seems to fit with SOE reality if not their pie in the sky schedule. Pub 18 we'll say is 3 weeks out, another 3 weeks for pub 19, when it's scheduled, but you said it might be pushed back a pub or two depending on QA, so that's 6 more weeks out. 12 weeks now we're looking at, that's 3 months. That's assuming only minor things go wrong. Judging by the history of Smuggler discussions by Devs, 3 months from a tentative "It's in two pubs" seems an awful solid bet, if not longer.
I'm struggling to keep the faith here, but even with all the posts (which we do appreciate it, thank you!) I've seen nothing that leads me to believe we'll see smuggler fixes any time "Soon(tm)". We want published code not more speculations, hopeful estimations and non-excuse explanations for delay.
Tiggs wrote:
I look at posts like this and realize it is a catch-22. When information was communicated in the past (before my time) everyone went wild. If that information missed the target or was removed then everyone was upset and the community felt the team was lying. This is why when I first started posting not only to this profession but to all, I stood firmly with if it is not 100% solid, I wouldn't post. Players were across the board on my posting that but for the most part many agreed that this would be a better route to take.
Our communication has been down lately with the following events hitting us from all sides: Celebration, Combat Upgrade, Rage of the Wookiee, E3 and Fan Fest. While these are not excuses the actuality of it all is releasing Combat Upgrade and RoW was like releasing two expansions at once. Something that no game has ever done.
We all learned some valuable lessons from doing two simultaneous releases and in the future our goal is to improve the communication flow so we don't run into that situation again.
- We want slicing to totally rawk by making it able to blah blah blah and yakkity shmakity.
- We are planning to allow smugglers to be able to steal people's socks while they're still on your feet!
- We are planning to allow smugglers to ect. ect.
The changes are not final and are planned fornext publish, but we're not done testing yet! so keep watching and when we have somthing new we'll post it!
Now, all the sillieness aside, this tells poeple what's on your mind without making promises. Kind of like how information was given during the CU planning.
The problem from before when people are accusing DEVs of lying is that they would say things like "Under no circumstances will your main character ever become a Jedi." In other words, they'd use absolutes rather than tell us what's in the planning stages, or that somthing is an intention rather than solid stone. What you guys did during the CU process, by telling us what was planned for now, but reminding us that things may change, that was exactly what we needed. Even if we didn't like the information, we could see that we were being heard even if the answer was sometimes no.
Tiggs wrote:I look at posts like this and realize it is a catch-22. When information was communicated in the past (before my time) everyone went wild. If that information missed the target or was removed then everyone was upset and the community felt the team was lying. This is why when I first started posting not only to this profession but to all, I stood firmly with if it is not 100% solid, I wouldn't post. Players were across the board on my posting that but for the most part many agreed that this would be a better route to take.
Tiggs, respectfully, it shouldn't be a catch-22. The only reason it appears to be a catch-22 is because of the ad-hoc flow of information that passed for communication in the past. Yes, if you announce something and then due to development issues have to withdraw it then some people are going to shout and scream, but those are the same people who will find something else shout and scream about if you don't announce anything.
In the past changes were announced and discussed and then communication ceased. Dates were given and then missed with no further word from the developers. All you need to do is communicate and continue to communicate. The majority of forum posters are reasonable people and will understand schedule slippage. Take for example the Jedi publish "Secrets of the Force" (publish 9). The devs posted about what was happening and answered questions. A deadline was set. As that deadline approached many players with Jedi grew restless because they felt the system needed a lot more work. Then the devs asked for a Jedi "punchlist" of issues one day before the deadline. The Jedi community went wild. Why were the devs asking about issues when there wasn't time to address them? The problem was that the devs had already decided to delay the publish by one week but had failed to communicate that information. Had the message been "We realise that there are several issues you are unhappy about with the new system and are delaying the publish by one week to try to address these issues. We have asked your correspondant to assemble a punchlist of issues you feel need addressing." rather than just "We have asked your correspondant to assemble a punchlist of issues you feel need addressing." then the community would have been in-the-loop and felt that their opinions mattered rather than feeling they were being fobbed off by a token attempt to listen to their issues when it was too late to change anything.
This pattern has been repeated far too often in the history of SWG. It is not enough to just announce "certainties" or "upcomming plans". To keep the community focused and positive you need to announce "certainties", "plans", "hopes", "deadlines" and follow up as and when things change. Yes, you'll still get flack. You'll get that whatever you do. But you won't have so many of your customers wondering if the game is going in a direction they want to go and feeling like their voice is being ignored.
EnigmaBSc
There is no doubt smugglers need to get their slicing ability fixed..but...
I think the people in this thread (devs included) are going too far with communicating game info, the purpose of correspondants and profession forums was for the community to have a place for their concerns and/or potential game balances fixes to be heardbut now its just a place where people are ranting and demanding their profession needs fixed.."I want it now now now now" kinda thing, if they could give you the fix now wouldnt they? I thinkYes they would, so it stands to reason that they cant...yet.
Its a hard truth to accept but numbers count for everything and compared to other professions smugglers and slicing in particular is a low priority.
Tiggs: If you are going to reply to these threads or give fix progression updates in general it might be an idea to explain why those fixes were put back, what replaces them and why they took priority, people wont be happy but at least they will have a reason and know the devs are being honest.
SpinningCloud wrote:Personally I'd bet we are looking at fall for the actual SMUGGING content.
Why that isn't a higher priority than slicing is beyond my understanding. Smuggling really ought to be the main activity of a SMUGGLER wouldn't ya think?
I think that one is pretty obvious.
Slicing benefits the all-combat players.
Of course that's a higher priority than the smuggling content we have been promised since beta.
AO
Tiggs wrote:
teh_n00b123 wrote:
JFreeman wrote:
The new slicing system is done.
Keep in mind, once a dev finishes a project like that, he checks it in. It goes into our version control software ... and we have little control over when it will get to you. Sometimes the developer isn't even 100% sure which publish his change will be in: the next one, or the one after that?
At that point, it's in for an upcoming publish with a lot of other stuff. Any of that "other stuff" could delay the publish. Or we could hear back from QA, "We don't have time to test that properly, so let's hold it for the next publish and give ourselves time to test all this other stuff." Or this could delay the publish itself. Or we could discover other issues with it in testing that cause us to sit on it for another publish, and so on. Really, anything could happen.
Most of the time, nothing bad happens, we haven't scheduled anything that requires more QA time than QA can accommodate, and what we check-in arrives on Live servers when it's supposed to. But this is just not something we can promise, so we try not to do that.
This particular torpedo has left the tube, but we can't say when precisely it will make contact with the USS Smuggler.
"Soon".
Nice post, you know....an excellent friday feature would be to have a QA on how SOE acts. Pictures of your offices, how bugs get fixed. An example of the game in code... The processes for pushing features in a game, like the example above. Those would really do wonders for us....
FYI - It might be best to put the smuggler fixes on high priority
This is really a great suggestion (not the included of the game code part) and would wind up being a few Friday features. I can check on Monday to see what we can do for this.
We had that either right before live or right after, got to see things like Raph's office, Snaykinn's hellhole that he worked from, etc. They did an interview a week for a few weeks iirc.
JohnnyBravoRPD wrote:
Auto wrote:
There is no doubt smugglers need to get their slicing ability fixed..but...
I think the people in this thread (devs included) are going too far with communicating game info, the purpose of correspondants and profession forums was for the community to have a place for their concerns and/or potential game balances fixes to be heardbut now its just a place where people are ranting and demanding their profession needs fixed.."I want it now now now now" kinda thing, if they could give you the fix now wouldnt they? I thinkYes they would, so it stands to reason that they cant...yet.
Its a hard truth to accept but numbers count for everything and compared to other professions smugglers and slicing in particular is a low priority.
Tiggs: If you are going to reply to these threads or give fix progression updates in general it might be an idea to explain why those fixes were put back, what replaces them and why they took priority, people wont be happy but at least they will have a reason and know the devs are being honest.
I'm really sory to say this., but : bite be glow stick boy
No kidding.
You have your own forum.
Tiggs wrote:
I totally get that but there is nothing I can do about what happened back then. I have come in this forum a few times and got blasted. Does it stop me from coming back? Nope, it does make me choose my words wisely when talking to this profession because every statement is ripped apart and taken 10 different ways.
I broke my rule and gave you tentative information, lets see how it goes.