CUEmu - Thread Posts

yimaz

Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:26 pm

OMG, sorry about thetriple post guys.

Yimayz Samoot
Master Smuggler & Master Pilot
Captain of the Auto de fé

Soyel

Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:46 pm

GreenMarine, just wanted to Thank you for coming and posting on the Smuggler Board. Although, for some it may have been to late as alot of us that have been here since Beta have quit, cancelled , etc..

Just showing interest has given alot of us faith that the Smuggler Profession may still be viable. As for me, I have already cancelled (ends July 26th) and probably won't re-sub till I read that the changes have come into effect, but I eagerly await your changes so that I may once again join the Smuggler fold.

/bow

and Good luck

Account Cancelled Dam you SOE

There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no death, there is The Force.---The Jedi Code
Where there is no emotion, there is indifferance and apathy. There is no ignorance, there are only idiots who don't know better. If there is no passion, there can be no strength and courage. There is The Force--- there is also Loyalty, Duty and Honor......and Friends.---The Jedi Code-- (as interpreted by Sergeant Rene Jones).

Drifan

Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:52 pm

#120

I am so glad smugglers are getting a revamp. Some of these ideas sound great,

Personally I am a BH and I don't generally troll around other forums since I hate the Jedi trolls on ours. However since the talk of bounties has been brought up, I'd like to add some ideas to make it more proactive and immersive.

Personally I like hunting Jedi, alot. I spend my whole game recording information on them. Now I would be doing this with Smugglers as well. Very cool. I usually have a lot of fun with the Jedi I hunt, and most find it very exciting as long as it is done right and we are respectful of them. I think it adds immersion and excitement to the game for them when they get hunted and it's a good clean fight with no griefing. I can't speak for those BHs that are disrespectful to their marks, but my number one priority is to have fun, and for the hunted to have fun as well.

Contrary to popular belief, Jedi do not hit the terminals "that" often unless they are actively PVPing. A smart smuggler should be able to avoid being placed on a terminal the vast majority of the time. It also adds immersion if I am going to a smuggler and he tells me I need to meet him somewhere private for the exchange of contraband.

That being said, I have some other smuggler type ideas to add to the bounty idea.

First the smuggler should be able to check if he has a bounty on him, on his own, due to his underworld contacts. Heck you can even expand the use of spynet to fill this function. Or you could allow any criminal, thief, etc NPC in cities to be the informant that tips a smuggler off.

Second the bounties should be a scaled type payment based on the degree of the offense, and the notoriety of the Smuggler. The more infamous the smuggler, the higher the bounties. C'mon tell me some of you guys don't want to be the most notorious scoundrel in the galaxy.

I think that the bounties should have a sponsor involved in the crimeworld (Nym, Jabba, Borvo, Erran Sif,etc). The Smuggler with a bounty on his head should have the option to be able to make restitution (hopefully a quest, not just mere payment, but that's cool too)to the Boss and get the bounty cancelled on them. Han most likely could have paid Jabba off with a healthy enough bribe and been cleared off the slate, well, at first at least.

The smuggler when caught by the BH should be given the option of offering a counteroffer to the BH. If accepted, the bounty should be dropped. I would make this slightly painful though, to prevent exploiting. The entire bribe should not go into the BHs pocket,most should go back to the offended Boss. This wouldstill give the smuggler an option to not have to PVP. Then again if the BH had a personal agenda, he might not take the bribe. This would have to be worked out, but it's a start of an idea.

Feigning Death... this is the first thing that came to mind to me as a BH. I would be very frustrated when every smuggler mark I caught FD'd on me and I couldn't complete my missions. I am sure the backlash would be similiar to what it is when we get Jedi missions that become incomplete for whatever variety of reasons occur. Maybe if a smuggler FD's, the BH could still walk away with a percentage of his mission reward. After all... he thinks that his mark is dead. Again though, this would potentially be exploitable as a credit farm. Some workaround may have to be provided.

I hope this is done correctly, with no loopholes for exploits and griefing. If done in the right way, it really could add the edge of danger to the smuggler profession which IMO is a lot of the fun factor to that profession. Not all of my ideas are workable, or maybe even the best, but I am throwing them out there. I enjoy a challenging hunt , and I think the smugglers will enjoy the occassional role of hunted.

Once again, congratulations guys, I hope you get everything you deserve and I sincerely hopethis is just another in the line of succesful class revamps.

Drifan Thelvar
Master Bounty Hunter

Smug-Druggler

Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:29 pm

#121

Greets All, Players & Developers alike

In reviewing GreenMarine's ideas there are a few that I would like to comment on now. Originally thought to wait for his individual threads, butI'll go ahead now because:

1.) GreenMarine may get a tad behindschedule, in all fairness, and we may be waiting for those threads.

2.)We get to distill somethings (even more :smileyvery-happy

to be that much sharper for when the threads do come.

3.) And"Search, Copy, & Paste" havebecome my most used Smuggler "action combo" recently

Go figure!

So here goes...

- I was intrigued to see that GreenMarine (inprevious posts in this thread) questions the Smuggler pre-reqs, in particular suggesting Business 4 as a substitute for one of the Combat branch pre-reqs. This has been a popular debate since before this Forum existed and it has great merit.

However,how would Business 4, as it exists now, help Smugglers other than in the conceptual sense?

As it exists now, Business 4 would only give the Smuggler a Bazaar discount and Vendor ability. This raises another classic Smuggler debate:

"Should Vendors hold contraband for sale in the first place?"

It's understood that there are other non-Contraband items that a Smuggler could use regular vendors for, but...really. Falling underGreenMarine's secondoverall goal, to make Smuggler more "thematic", I and other Smugglers never really felt"Smuggler-ish" sellingcontraband on a public Vendor.

Thematically, I can see how Business would fit into the Smuggler "DNA". But, ifwe're going to have a Business pre-req it should directly aid us in our "criminal performance"

.

NOW, for those of you still awake, I'd like to offer a potential fix for both of those questions (Vendor utility;Business pre-req Thematic). I also offer a substitute forthe 8th area of GreenMarine's design document, "Option: Sidekick".

Personally, I've never been a fan of the "Sidekick" idea. I'd rather see us experiencing Smuggler content (when we get it) with other Player Characters.

Thisidea iswhat I like to think of as a "Dirty Vendor", a Smuggler specific vendor to sellcontraband items. This NPC could also have it's own Faction "prejudices" and such.

As GreenMarine himself said, (paraphrase) we're stuck on a Pistol pre-req for Smuggler because Han Solo was a pistol guy. Are we considering Sidekicks because Han had Chewbacca? Dash Rendar had a Droid. Lando Calrissian had no regular partner, in his short smuggling career.

**Disclaimer: I can't take credit for the "Dirty Vendor" idea. It comes from an old post by a player named "Snowjoke" who may not still be around.**

Snowjoke's original post is at the URL listed below:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=68340&highlight=snowjoke#M68340

(Courtest clicky please, anyone?)

For Greenmarine and we Players to discuss.

Respect.

Keer Tregga the "Smug Druggler" -- Corrupting the Galaxy One Spice Run at a Time....

Smug-Druggler

Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:57 pm

#122

Addendum to my previous post regarding introducing of the "Dirty Vendor" idea:

- the ability to place the "Dirty Vendor" couldstart in the Novice Smuggler box and continue in the Underworld branch.

- the regular Vendors awarded through Business 4 could be "criminally enabled" upon reaching Novice Smuggler and increase in sophistication ("street knowledge") further along the Underworld branch. The regular vendor would be replaced with an NPC that could be placed in different locations, perhaps.

This is a rough idea for sure and further variations can be found in SnowJoke's original thread.

Keer Tregga the "Smug Druggler" -- Corrupting the Galaxy One Spice Run at a Time....

WylotheUber

Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:28 pm

#123

Great suggestions, everyone. Green Marine, keep up the good work with this revamp. I, and many other smugglers, await news regarding the Smuggler Revamp

Inwo

Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:50 pm

#124

From what I've read so far it seems to me that instead of moving smuggler more towards a combat profession than it already is it's going to end up being a crafter only profession. As a smuggler it was my idea that I'd be running from planet to planet delivering goods while defending myself along the way with my trusty pistol. Lurking in seedy cantinas on Nabooonly to be attacked by bounty hunters trying to chase down the debts I owe a crime lord on Corellia. The LAST thing I wanted as a smuggler is to worry about crafting and sitting around by my vendor trying to build up merchant xp. It sounds in this thread like most people WANT this. I don't remember ever seeing or reading about Han Solo sitting in his small house talking to his vendor while craftingmuon gold on 15 food craft stations. I did, however, read about him being a swashbuckling rogue who sold his services to the highest bidder dashing across the galaxy in the fastest ship out there. This is the character I want to play. This is a smuggler. If the pistol advantage is taken away from the smuggler it will do nothing for the profession except kill it. Yes, it'll allow the random weapon and armor smith who has smuggler as a secondary to save a few skill points, but what about us combat smugglers? If anything should be changed it is the unarmed prerequisite. Business is completely worthless and out of character for a smuggler as was decided back in beta as I recall.

Spices, asthey are, need emergency help, as there is no point to crafting them since the chef revamp. Perhaps a simple repositioning and reevaluation of the skill tree is more ideal? Pistol bonuses at LEAST at master smuggler would be very nice. Maybe some extra speed but a large bonus to moving pistol aim? This would be very good for the smuggler character since he isn't one to sit around face to face blasting away at his opposition.

majorslappy

Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:16 pm

#125

GreenMarine,

Welcome to our little corner of the world, smuggling. I am glad you are starting this early to get a jump on defining the revamp.

As far as infighting goes, the association with pistols with smuggler isn't just from Han. Smugglers spend most of their time in cantinas and casinos and just plain indoors. The best weapon (real world) to use in a confined space with limited line of sight is the pistol. It's easy to carry and simple to aim and there is no need (indoors) for a long range weapon. Now, if you want to add a bonus to smugglers for being able to fight indoors better than others, sounds good to me. But simply ditching the concept of close fighting doesn't sound right for some reason. Are you thinking of replacing pistol XP with just combat XP and letting smugglers choose a "root" weapon cert from pistol/carbine/rifle?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like pointless grinds.
Thank you for reintroducing decay!!!
I like a complex, immersive world simulation, full of possibilities, challenges and roleplay.
I want a player driven, crafting-based economy.

Smug-Druggler

Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:45 pm

#126

Inwo wrote:

The LAST thing I wanted as a smuggler is to worry about crafting and sitting around by my vendor trying to build up merchant xp. It sounds in this thread like most people WANT this. I don't remember ever seeing or reading about Han Solo sitting in his small house talking to his vendor while craftingmuon gold on 15 food craft stations. I did, however, read about him being a swashbuckling rogue who sold his services to the highest bidder dashing across the galaxy in the fastest ship out there. This is the character I want to play. This is a smuggler.

I understand where you're coming from completely here.

- I never wanted to craft spices at all and personally voted against it, oh, 3 or 4 Revamp proposals ago...(See Kav's "Spice and the Revamp" thread from earlier this year). However, it seems that the majority of Smugglers want it and, bottom line, I don't dislike Spice crafting/selling that much to fight ittoo hard.

- I agree that the Smuggler still needs some teeth and I don't think anyone wants Smuggler to be naked in Combat.

Inwo wrote:

Business is completely worthless and out of character for a smuggler as was decided back in beta as I recall.

This one Idisagree with. The Smuggler is the sharpest businessman breathing.

-The Merchant has a bad "season" and can pack it in and start over next year or find a new gig.

- The Smuggler has a bad 5 minutes and it's off to Kessel for a life sentencemanning theLandspeeder plates machine.

A Smuggler shouldplay for high stakes. We're slicker and sharper than most because we have to be.

As it is now, yes the Business skill branch does little for us except set us up for "corrupting the system" when we go Novice Smuggler and possibly along into the Underworld skill branch. This I agreed to in my earlier post. Onceone finishes the Smuggler pre-reqs then the Merchanting becomes dirty.

NO, I don't want to craft it, or really evensell it for that matter, BUT, I'm hoping that since it looks like we'll be keeping the Spice sales part of Smuggler, that we'll at least be able to make it nasty (Smuggler-y).

And as for Han Solo, he was running confidence scams and picking pockets before puberty. I guess you could say he took a different route to Novice Smuggler .

Respect

Keer Tregga the "Smug Druggler" -- Corrupting the Galaxy One Spice Run at a Time....

Akkori

Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:44 pm

#127

I agree....doing anything "illegal" should come with risks. Advertising that you are doing something illegal should come with risks. You should not be able to sell illegally modified goods on legit vendors, but if you do, there is a chance that a "cop" will see it one day and suspend your vendor operation for a time, and automatically de-list anything illegal you are selling. Then you would get a hefty fine, maybe equaling 10% of the total net worth of everything listed on that vendor.

Being a Smuggler should be risky, and every day shoudl be an adventure. NPC's watching out for you, and aggro'ing you if they "see" you doing anything illegal...BH getting missions on you if you are caught slicing or if your vendor has illegal products on it, etc... Smugglers walk a fine line between safetly (no PvP) and danger (PvP). I hate PvP too, but I would welcome the challenge of doing what I have to to *continue* to avoid it while staying a Smuggler.

Odano Akkori
First Mayor of Tempest
Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Rifleman, Swordsman
Jedi will never be a starting profession...Looted items and quest items will never be better then crafted items, this is not a loot based game...CH will return shortly...CH and BE will not be back in game...Rangers are getting their revamp next!...The stealth system will not be changing in the spy expertise...Need any more examples of things the devs said that did not hold true?

Atreyus

Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:44 pm

#128

I noticed that no one shed any tears about the possible loss of last ditch and feign death. will anyone miss these skills?If no one else does, IknowI will. I felt that feign death was a great way to avoid combat although I believe it should be grief-proofed by allowing the word corspe to appear in our names like its done when we are actually killed so that the opposing players can be fooled into thinking that we are actually dead, or at least make it so that our armor can't be taken all the way down to zero condition while feigned. But what i personally don't want to see is the loss of feign death completely or the loss of pistols. GreenMarine said that just because Han solo used a pistol, it doesn't mean that we have to be just like that. But GreenMarine, most of the people play this game because they want to be just like what they saw in the movies or read in the books. Having the pistol is importantto me because it was connected to Han. Why not say that just because Luke Skywalker used a lightsabre, doesn't mean that all jedi have to use them, some jedi can use Teras Kasi. I know this may be a tab bit of an extreme example, but I think smugglers want to make their characters as much like the smugglers in the movies and books. That is the whole purpose why most smugglers are pushing for a revamp in the first place, so that they can feel like they are doing things like the smugglers in the real star wars. If you must get rid of FD and last ditch along with pistols, can we at least get another combat ability that helps us get away from the BHs and other law enforcement (or law abiding citizens :smileyvery-happy

? I feel that i should ask this because with the possible loss of pistols and FD, it seems that SOE is secretly trying to rid smugglers of the ability to get out of dangerous situations because if you recall, panic shot is now useless as a delay because we interupt it ourselves rightafter we do it. And with panic shot being gimpy and now FD and last ditch might be leaving, what ways will we have to get away? i'm just curious.

(ok everyone who wants to flame me for loving FD and last ditchcan do so now:smileyhappy

Anything for a profit! That's a smuggler's motto.

Atreyus

Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:01 pm

#129

Xeranx said that,"like it or not there are people who don't wish to have someone chase after them." personally I say, if you don't want people chasing after you, don't make a smuggler.

Xeranx also said, "but basing things off what we know now many want absolutely nothing to do with PvP. It's become unenjoyable for many and the GCW means nothing in this game." Again i say why are these people making smugglers?Why aren't they making armorsmiths or weaponsmiths or building droids?? This way they won't have anything to do with the GCW (something that Han Solo DID have something to do with), and if you remember Han Solo was in the occasional scrap not that he chose to be, but he was able to handle himself and get away. This is all i am asking for.

Anything for a profit! That's a smuggler's motto.

Xeranx

Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:19 pm

#130

Atreyus wrote:

Xeranx said that,"like it or not there are people who don't wish to have someone chase after them." personally I say, if you don't want people chasing after you, don't make a smuggler.

Xeranx also said, "but basing things off what we know now many want absolutely nothing to do with PvP. It's become unenjoyable for many and the GCW means nothing in this game." Again i say why are these people making smugglers?Why aren't they making armorsmiths or weaponsmiths or building droids?? This way they won't have anything to do with the GCW (something that Han Solo DID have something to do with), and if you remember Han Solo was in the occasional scrap not that he chose to be, but he was able to handle himself and get away. This is all i am asking for.

The "then don't do this" response is the easiest cop out to anything that's said. I don't consider being chased by a BH with mind being the unhealable pool fun. Not to mention that with my chosen professions (you can see them as part of my sig) I'm a joke in PvP. I don't wear armor because I don't believe any martial artists that values his mobility should have to. I don't go out of my way to get buffed because I see it as a useless expense. I wait in line for how many minutes and during the course of going to do whatever it is I had planned I get ganged up on and slain. Those buffs I spent 10k on and 30 minutes in line for are gone in less time than it took to wait for the buffs.

You're right, Han was in the occasional scrap andhe did have a hand in the GCW. Now a good question is do you have any effect on the GCW whatsoever? Does any base you kill thwart the Emperors plans for dominance? Does setting up a base do anything for you at all, but make you a target for repeated attacks that mean nothing but reduced armor condition and loss of faction? Does a smuggler's skill currently leave the smuggler being confident that he/she can handle themselves versus a BH?

I don't think you can give a resounding yes to any of those questions because an affirmative to them doesn't exist.

Really. I can't see how someone would like to be chased, knowing that they're going to lose everytime, fun.

Teräs Käsi Master 9-27-2003
Master Smuggler 3-04-2004

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Thread: Revamp Discussion: Overview