Smuggler Archive
Thread: Concussion shot vs Stopping Shot?
Nisdain wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
fishbrains wrote:
Allright, I'm going to speak frankly Axob. I've seen the effectiveness of the root+ daze by PvP fighting with CMs post CU. Everything I have seen indicates that unless you are PvPing with a small group, and you are all on voice chat......there is a lack of fire controll that negates much of the effect of a special like concussion. I realise that commando/smuggler is going to be nice for you and all, however..given how I see PvP I see this as being not as effective as the old root.
With all the changes to jedi I fear that nothing will hold them back, the only thing that's stopping me from saying they will once again totally comprose 90% of the PvP scene is the healing changes. I just don't think they will fear the new root near as much. For example I can see them start to run with a con sp-forces person who just /duels em when they get concussioned....2 secs later they are back in the fight.
I PvP with a team that uses Ventrillo voice chat. We selectively target individuals.
You seem to have no idea how powerful an area mez will be.
Combat Medics have to mez a group one by one by one, and even then you have morons breaking all of this hard work.
I'll just have to aim once, fire, then mez almost an entire army while my combat team kills whoever is still moving and shooting at us. In theory, we could take on armies MUCH larger than us.
If we come across a Jedi using Avoid Incap, I can mez everyone else in his group while we spend the 3 minutes necessary to kill the guy.
If a group is coordinated, then Concussion Shot will be one of the most CRUCIAL parts of an assault.
Of course now with an AoE Mez... expect to see a lot of people having a dedicated guy that isn't combatant or SF dueled to everyone with a CDEF Rifle and an AoE attack...
If people go to those lengths, then fine. Doing so will be a big inconvenience in most fights,so either way the shot is useful.
Well yes, but Smugglers are supposed to be a crowd-control profession. Not every ability works well in every situation. You've pointed out the Concussion shot has no use in a one-on-one fight and that's true. But it was never intended for that purpose.
I can say that the snow chains for my tires serve no purpose during the summer other than to eat up my driveway and play havok with my gas mileage. See what I mean?
I also wouldn't use an AOE on a group of non-aggro mobs if I only wanted to pull one at a time. If you want to have some abilities that will let you solo more effectively, you just need to rethink your template. It's not like the change to Concussion Shot is a sudden thing. We've known it been coming since FF.
Lord_Eoin wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
Concussion Shotis the ultimate solo'ers tool as a mez that breaks on damage. People who solo must, in a lot of cases, fight enemies one-on-one. Ifa smuggler isEVER swarmed,they have the ultimate tool to deal with multiple attackers by usingConcussion Shot on the ones surrounding your target.
For those who used Concussion Shot to root a creature then run back out of melee range, that is a lame way to play the game.Conc. Shot was never intended to be used as a sure fire way to beat melee opponents.
It needed to be changed because no special should be used as an "I win" button. A Smuggler can be just as deadly with it turned to a mez that breaks on damage, but only this time the smuggler might get a little beat up, scratched, and have to give a LITTLE more effort into keeping multiple enemies at bay.
Smugglers need a good challenge and aren't afraid of getting a scratch or two on them. Using Concussion Shot as a way to completely avoid danger like awimp IS NOT the smuggler way.
Message Edited by Ternque01 on 06-24-200501:50 PM
exactly, in one on one fights, this is going to be ultimatly useless now. Sure, youcan completly stop their actions(no heals, moving, attacking etc) but there still is a problem. If we plan to use this we must turn off our Auto-Attack. Tried with CM paralyze before and it goes something like this-
Radnor Waypeg attacks a dewback withimproved paralyze.
(pause 1 second)
Radnor Waypeg attacks a dewback with Ranged Shot for 56 damage.(nullifying the mez).
What a useful ability!!!!!!11111!!!1!11! I just mezed the target for 1 second during my cooldown!!1!1!!!1!1!! YAY!!!!11!1!! I also got 56 damage off on him while he was stunned, this rules!1!11!!!!1!!
And i find that it will be much worst for smugglers. On adverage, I can get a few different shots off in succession(getting low blow and panic shot off in two different shots right in succession before a innate cooldown happens). So, this would cause something like this-
Halleroder- attacks a dewback with improved concussion shot
Halleroder- attacks a dewback with ranged shot for 98 damage.
WOOOT!!1!1!!!1! My uber l33tness conc shot is the b35t35t!!!1!1!11 I froze my opponent for a third of a second!!!111!!1!1 Thats @5\/\/50/\/\3!!!11!!11!1111!!!
And for the commando/smuggler template vs multiple targets you attack the group with the mez and it gets them all, attack again in the attack techniclly attacks them all without damaging the group : | great
Use your imagination a little. Concussion Shot will be VERY useful in a one-on-one fight.
Let's say a snorbal is beating the crap outta you. Hit it with a mez, then use Ruby Bliel to get two stim heals off in a 30 second time span. Resume killing.
Ternque01 wrote:
Nisdain wrote:
Ternque01 wrote:
fishbrains wrote:
Allright, I'm going to speak frankly Axob. I've seen the effectiveness of the root+ daze by PvP fighting with CMs post CU. Everything I have seen indicates that unless you are PvPing with a small group, and you are all on voice chat......there is a lack of fire controll that negates much of the effect of a special like concussion. I realise that commando/smuggler is going to be nice for you and all, however..given how I see PvP I see this as being not as effective as the old root.
With all the changes to jedi I fear that nothing will hold them back, the only thing that's stopping me from saying they will once again totally comprose 90% of the PvP scene is the healing changes. I just don't think they will fear the new root near as much. For example I can see them start to run with a con sp-forces person who just /duels em when they get concussioned....2 secs later they are back in the fight.
I PvP with a team that uses Ventrillo voice chat. We selectively target individuals.
You seem to have no idea how powerful an area mez will be.
Combat Medics have to mez a group one by one by one, and even then you have morons breaking all of this hard work.
I'll just have to aim once, fire, then mez almost an entire army while my combat team kills whoever is still moving and shooting at us. In theory, we could take on armies MUCH larger than us.
If we come across a Jedi using Avoid Incap, I can mez everyone else in his group while we spend the 3 minutes necessary to kill the guy.
If a group is coordinated, then Concussion Shot will be one of the most CRUCIAL parts of an assault.
Of course now with an AoE Mez... expect to see a lot of people having a dedicated guy that isn't combatant or SF dueled to everyone with a CDEF Rifle and an AoE attack...
If people go to those lengths, then fine. Doing so will be a big inconvenience in most fights, so either way the shot is useful.
Depends if AoE Conc will be wide spread, if it isnt then no biggie however most PVPers are smart about it and if everyone and their are even 5 people doing it in large PVP battles then youll see the guy with the CDEF out prolly
LTZweigg wrote:
Well yes, but Smugglers are supposed to be a crowd-control profession. Not every ability works well in every situation. You've pointed out the Concussion shot has no use in a one-on-one fight and that's true. But it was never intended for that purpose.
I can say that the snow chains for my tires serve no purpose during the summer other than to eat up my driveway and play havok with my gas mileage. See what I mean?
I also wouldn't use an AOE on a group of non-aggro mobs if I only wanted to pull one at a time. If you want to have some abilities that will let you solo more effectively, you just need to rethink your template. It's not like the change to Concussion Shot is a sudden thing. We've known it been coming since FF.
Like I said above. Conc. Shot will be VERY useful one-on-one.
If you are getting the crap beat outta you, mez your target then use Ruby Bliel to get two stim heals in a 30 second timespan, then resume your ass kicking.
CrimsonCredits wrote:
I think some people still have problems with the whole mez root thing. some people may not be coing from games before or from PVP games which such skills really are important to combat.
Mez: a mez keps the target from taking any action from combat to setitng up defense skills to movement (AKA rooting). Mez's break on contact by an enemy attack or by the timer running out. A Mez is used to keep enemy from interferring while their friends are killed or used to kep a mob from bothering you as you escape. In games Mez will alawys panic you more then a root because while your mezzed you can see all your teammates get whacked in combat around you and you know once they are done with them they will be after you. The only twothoughts when your mezzed is to have the timer end fast so you can figth or run or hope that some noob hits you before the whole enemy forces turns their attention to you.
Root: a root ONLY keeps a target from moving but still allows the player to use skills and attack anything within it's range. A root does not drop when the target is hit and will only run out when the timer expires or if ther eis a skill in game allowing them to break the root (there is no skill in SWG that I know of that does that at this time and even then it's a very long timer for such skills in other games and still leaves the player with the chance of being rerooted). While this is a bother to players they still know they can fight if need be unitl hey can start to move again.
Concussion Shot will be a Mez. While this is needed for Smuggler and the game for some PVE and very much for PVP there still needs ot me more. Having the ability to control a mob only in 1 format other then in a knockdown (which will only last a few moments) does not make a class the best in crowd control. Smuggler needs another shot which is just a root to go with our mezzing. To be a lvl 5 incrowd controlthe profession needs to have multiple choices for controling the enemy. Otherwise you are simply just a low end CC'er.
We need a root to go with Mez to be even thought of as"the"controlers in SWG. Otherwise we are just a gimp class with a neat little skill to help somewhat in combat. rather then being relied on for our skills.
Pick up Pistoleer's Stopping Shot. If you are a smuggler, it takes a mere 18 skill points to get a very decent root. Pistoleers were designed to be a 4 in crowd control. The devs had to give them something without being redundant with smuggler.
We also have a nice snare. Panic Shot is getting turned into a daze, which is like a mez without the root. Overwhelming Shot is getting changed to really allow states to be stuck easier.
We will be a 5 in CC after these changes.
Nisdain wrote:
Depends if AoE Conc will be wide spread, if it isnt then no biggie however most PVPers are smart about it and if everyone and their are even 5 people doing it in large PVP battles then youll see the guy with the CDEF out prolly
Lord_Eoin wrote:
so then the tactic would only be usefull if you are a commando(when it should have a big stand-alone usefullness) with their AOE-weapons. You can't fanshot and conc. shot at the same time : )
I agree, it a good attack, seemingly much better than a simple root. But it will actually make fights much more boring and useless on multiple vs 1(ie group vs Krayt) as you attack with it, breaks unstantly on your friends attack[waste of combat round]. At least with roots, stong NPCs had the chance of breaking it and charging you. And a note for PvP(expecially jedi) it would essentially make them way to long.
You shoot your Conc. shot to mez them
You heal yourself
You shoot them with some ability(assume Reckless Shot as its smuggler)
THEY heal their damage
You mez them
and the cycle starts again.
Blixtev wrote:
HOTDOG wrote:
Concussion will still root. Panic shot will not.
dude...people are REALLY going to hate being on the receiving end of Concussion Shot now-
Now I think we will be a lot closer to a 5 in crowd control. Definitely a 4 but most likely a 5.
You can Concussion Shot a group (thus freezing and rooting them) then work them one by one from a distance since after you shoot them they will still be rooted.
Message Edited by HOTDOG on 06-23-2005 05:36 PM
No you misunderstand, any damage breaks the entire effect. You can lock people down, in a multiple creature fight for example, shut down 3 and kill the 4th, however and damage to the other 3 will cause them to break the entire effect.
Concussion shot can miss and people can break your concussion shots by shooting the wrong thing, that is what Panic Shot s for, a good backup in case someone isnt paying attention or you miss.
The ability to shut an opponent down so they cant heal, cant attack, while you back out and rest up, heal etc is very powerful. I am concerned about the duration of this ability and will watch to see if it is used for good, or for awesome.
Blixtev, if you think people use daze attacks primarily so they can back out and rest up, you are living in tra-la-la-land. Chained together with other attacks, they are used to kill opponents who are unable to fight back or heal themselves. You call this balance?
Blixtev wrote:
Fixed this today, Concussion shot is now a Daze + Root. Daze = Unable to perform any heals, buffs, attacks etc. The target can effectively not do anything until the effect wears off OR is hit by any form of damage.
Panic Shot was also not working correctly, as the description has read since CU it is now operates as a Daze instead of a Combat Slow. Again Dazes prevent actions but break on damage. Made no sense for panic shot and lowblow to do the same thing excep tpanic shot was a much weaker version.
Overwhelming Shot was non functional as well, it now works.
These changes should be rolling out to TC in a few days and should help the Smuggler in fufilling their Crowd Control role better.
Smugglers used to have an attack which allowed for a Knock Down from range (I think it was low blow). Any chance of getting that back too?
AngusMacGregor wrote:
See Saarek? I told you it was coming.
