Shipwright Archive

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neutrineaux wrote:

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PetaByte32 wrote:

I think the very ironic thing about this thread is how alot of the people posting about no factory support for shipwrights are the same ones that want an FS conversion.

Interesting how they are quick to say that shipwright is like every other crafting profession so they should get an FS conversion but when the issue of factory support comes upthey are just as quick to point out how different this profession is from other crafting professions.

Tyranus

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fs credit has nothing to do with factory support. other professions have variable factory support (think BE), and do just fine with it. they get fs conversion. there is simply no connection. you are grasping at straws.

shipwright is like other crafting professions in some ways, different in others. and that is a good thing. but we should get a shot at jedi just like every other ground based prof.

of course, the armorsmith who wants the fs points would have to hand craft, cause the xp you get from factories is not so good.

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Your missing the point. Let me explain it a little differently.

Whenever the FS Conversion topic comes up we get alot of "Shipwright is like all the other crafting professions and we deserve an FS Conversion since we are just like all the others." Ok this is the general consensus of the pro FS guys.

Now alot of the pro FS guys come to factory support threads and say "We are unique and meant to be different. We should not have factory support because we are nothing like the other crafting professions."

Basically its self-interest and hypocracy. They say what the want to support their view and dont care just how hypocritical they sound.

Tyranus

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neutrineaux wrote:

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PetaByte32 wrote:

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4Bidden wrote:

The part that's starting to worry me is that I've been told by a few master shipwrights that they are now resorting to 3rd party programs to craft for them. This is outrageous. These shipwrights voted no on factory support so they can continue to mass produce products and somewhat corner their markets.. They have turned themselves into virtual factories.. Not only have some of them admitted this to me, but when you send them a tell they never answer, yet somehow end up with hundreds of items on their vendors.

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I have heard about this macro myself but never have seen it. Wouldnt use it if I did. And doesnt suprize me that some are using it. I am willing to bet alot of those against factory support are the ones using it.

IMO most shipwrights would agree 100% on factory support if it was just for their toon and no other shipwrights. "Oh I alone can have full factory support? Certainly I agree completely."

Its all about hypocracy and irony. They say "Well we dont want factory support so newbies can have a chance to compete." but a newbie can use a factory just like any other. It wouldnt make a difference either way if there was or wasnt factories in regards to a newbie competeing. The truth is they think they can rule the field by "outcrafting" their associates.

Dont you think its odd how they are are against factories because of newbies not being able to compete but they never mention the casual gamer who cant ever compete as a shipwright because of all the crafting involved?

Tyranus

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i am a casual gamer. i am against increased factory support, even if it is just for me. so you have misjudged at least some of us. i do not use illegal third party soultions. i think elements of the current factory limitations in shipwright should find their way to all other crafting professions. i have no desire to "rule the field", but i do want to have a chance at having business. this model gives us all a more equal footing, and promotes numerous smaller shops rather than a few big ones.

that is a good thing.

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So what are you saying about equal footing? If there was more factory support your saying you couldnt get a factory? Some rare loot that only drops off nunas near keren, naboo the third tuesday after pentecoste during a full moon in janurary while wearing a pink outfit with purple bangles and singing Kumbaya whilst using a pointy stick as a weapon?

That is the way the lot of you sound. You make it out like only certain priveledged few will ever get a factory and all others are left out in the cold.

And this new system is actually promoting more bigger shops then the other system. Reason why is simple. Thanks to limited support, shipwrights have to hire other shipwrights to help counter the load. This hurts all those shipwrights who want to work alone or have just a small shop since they can never compete against the big combines of shipwrights. But hey no one seems to care about those shipwrights.

Again its hypocracy and self-interest. They are more then quick to use the newbie as an excuse not to havemore factory supportbut never willing to mention how the solo shipwright will be hurt by this.

Tyranus

Basically what this means is that companies like Kuat, Mon Cal, and Mandalmotors have hordes of employees making their parts since for some odd reason they cant use factories. All this modern technology in the Star Wars universe and they havent learned what Ford taught years ago? They can makefusion generators, lasers, and modern medicine but they havent been able to figure out how to make a sheet of armor mass produced? Oh they can make weapons mass produced but darn it they just arent smart enough to get a factory to pump out a few armor panels. Yah right sure.

Tyranus

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they also apparently never heard of a drive through bank window, cause i have to dismount to use the bank. but i can get 50 sofas into a backpack and sprint up a sheer rock wall, so i guess there are pros and cons.

there are really only two reasons (that i can actually find believable, that is) that increased factory support is desirable for some players: 1. market domination and 2.freeing up play time to do something else. both have their appeal to groups who 1. want to dominate the market and/or 2. want to do something besides make ships and parts.

if you want to dominate the market, please find another strategy or go toa profession which has unlimited factory support (i.e.,is headed towards or is ina flooded market already).

if you simply do not want to build so many ships and parts, please simply build fewer.

but the campaign to foist your megalomania upon the rest of us has grown tiresome.

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Kinot33 wrote:

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neutrineaux wrote:

3 replies to one poster's comments in 3 posts instead of one

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Its called editing and Notepad.

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three replies to three different posts at three different times. it's called context. it's called stream of thought.

not to be adversarial or anything.

and notepad bites.

added: and omg! i just read your gigantic posts above! you have a lot of nerve criticizing my editing, mister! lol. ok, your economics and game play fortuntelling was entertaining and enlightening. but get an editor!

Message Edited by neutrineaux on 12-03-2004 04:04 PM

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PetaByte32 wrote:

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neutrineaux wrote:

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PetaByte32 wrote:

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4Bidden wrote:

The part that's starting to worry me is that I've been told by a few master shipwrights that they are now resorting to 3rd party programs to craft for them. This is outrageous. These shipwrights voted no on factory support so they can continue to mass produce products and somewhat corner their markets.. They have turned themselves into virtual factories.. Not only have some of them admitted this to me, but when you send them a tell they never answer, yet somehow end up with hundreds of items on their vendors.

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I have heard about this macro myself but never have seen it. Wouldnt use it if I did. And doesnt suprize me that some are using it. I am willing to bet alot of those against factory support are the ones using it.

IMO most shipwrights would agree 100% on factory support if it was just for their toon and no other shipwrights. "Oh I alone can have full factory support? Certainly I agree completely."

Its all about hypocracy and irony. They say "Well we dont want factory support so newbies can have a chance to compete." but a newbie can use a factory just like any other. It wouldnt make a difference either way if there was or wasnt factories in regards to a newbie competeing. The truth is they think they can rule the field by "outcrafting" their associates.

Dont you think its odd how they are are against factories because of newbies not being able to compete but they never mention the casual gamer who cant ever compete as a shipwright because of all the crafting involved?

Tyranus

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i am a casual gamer. i am against increased factory support, even if it is just for me. so you have misjudged at least some of us. i do not use illegal third party soultions. i think elements of the current factory limitations in shipwright should find their way to all other crafting professions. i have no desire to "rule the field", but i do want to have a chance at having business. this model gives us all a more equal footing, and promotes numerous smaller shops rather than a few big ones.

that is a good thing.

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So what are you saying about equal footing? If there was more factory support your saying you couldnt get a factory?

not at all. i simply am unlikely to do lot swaps and make gigantic factory runs due to the inherent hurtles to doing that, especially with a highly resource intensive profession such as ours. i do have factories, and i am satisfied with the level of support they offer. furthermore, i attribute my ability to develop a crafting business essentially from scratch largely to the fact that those like yourself cannot simply make 100 or 1000 mk 1armor panels by simply making 12 or fewer attemps at a schematic (6 minutes) and dropping the schematic and resources from your horde into a factory before you go to work or school in the morning (2 additional minutes).

Some rare loot that only drops off nunas near keren, naboo the third tuesday after pentecoste during a full moon in janurary while wearing a pink outfit with purple bangles and singing Kumbaya whilst using a pointy stick as a weapon?

sorry. i am not stupid. but i do not get that one.

That is the way the lot of you sound.

actually, you sound pretty agitated to me. dingoboi, who is often over the top imho, seems to be on to something regarding your medication level. j/k.

You make it out like only certain priveledged few will ever get a factory and all others are left out in the cold.

not at all. you are certainly reaching here.with factory support of the type seen in armorsmith, for example, the volume of product that can be generated leads inevitably to only a few professionals controlling the vast majority of the market share.rather like wal-mart vs. me in selling fish baits. i can never succeed because i have such limited resources, and they have a sweat shop in china (i.e., factory support) that can generate so many baits so cheaply, no one bothers to check to see if i have any. so i cannot stay in business.

And this new system is actually promoting more bigger shops then the other system.

balogna. that is pure hooey, and we all know it.

Reason why is simple. Thanks to limited support, shipwrights have to hire other shipwrights to help counter the load.

thus, more shipwrights ar making ships! taadaa!

This hurts all those shipwrights who want to work alone or have just a small shop since they can never compete against the big combines of shipwrights.

more balogna. does not hurt a bit. not me (solo shipwright extroidinaire), not anyone i personally know of. and if i were a mind to do so, i could probably find a job with a big shop, since they cannot simply make another factory run. they need actual players.

But hey no one seems to care about those shipwrights.

who are these godforsaken souls? there is plenty of demand. if you build stuff people want, price it fairly, and market, you will sell stuff. and if they don't want to do all that, i would gladly buy stuff from them as independant suppliers.

Again its hypocracy and self-interest.

hogwash.

They are more then quick to use the newbie as an excuse not to havemore factory supportbut never willing to mention how the solo shipwright will be hurt by this.

because he will not be. it is the slavation of the solo shipwright, me included. i do not use the newbie as my sole arguement, although clearly this lowers the hurtles to entry into the profession. only the megalomaniacs are hurt by this.

Tyranus

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neutrineaux wrote:

I mentioned that several times already. Got someone there with an education above the 6th grade to help you with the really big words or what?

my education is over 6th grade... and i have a dictionary and a shift key which i CHOOSE to use only infrequently. but i think everyone pretty much sees what you want to gain from this with out the aid of a dictionary... even my 9 year old.

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Kinot33 wrote:

Slippery slope? We are making fundamental changes to the foundations. This is setting the bar for a sweeping change of the whole crafting system. You cannot find a new way of doing things if you do not try them. The left and the right exist on every issue, but the majority fall closer to the middle than either end. If we don't see what other kinds of limited factory support are like, then we won't know if they work better or worse than the current levels.

Wouldn't be prudent? It would be higly economical to have less clicking for a crafter. It would be greatly economical for a single person to be able to produce more with less effort. It would be wise to explore more avenues before deciding you have seen everything the crafting world has to offer and that this is the One True Way.

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We do already know what happens with increased factory support, look to most other crafting professions, the dominant forces in the market are those with the access to the most resources, lots and credits... Not necessarily those who produce the best goods.

You don't need to do huge factory runs of goods to make a good living, i make nearly all my architect end product by hand and I make a comfortable living, and I don't have so much stock, at such low prices, that no-one else could manage to have a shop near me and do good business. Make less, if you run out of stock then people can either wait for the next restock or go elsewhere, you don't have to supply all the gear for everyone who comes looking, make however much you want to spend time making and let others do the rest.

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lisasdarren wrote:

We do already know what happens with increased factory support, look to most other crafting professions, the dominant forces in the market are those with the access to the most resources, lots and credits... Not necessarily those who produce the best goods.

You don't need to do huge factory runs of goods to make a good living, i make nearly all my architect end product by hand and I make a comfortable living, and I don't have so much stock, at such low prices, that no-one else could manage to have a shop near me and do good business. Make less, if you run out of stock then people can either wait for the next restock or go elsewhere, you don't have to supply all the gear for everyone who comes looking, make however much you want to spend time making and let others do the rest.

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neutrineaux wrote:

you are addressing this to me? i was not addressing it to you, so i believe you have violated your own ethic to begin with. it would seem your are trying to pick a fight, then projecting. i was just answering a post, and civilly, i might add. it was on the public shipwright forum, and i am a shipwright and a part of the public. how is that not addressed to me in any way?

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