Shipwright Archive
Thread: A little story about no factory support
DingoBoi wrote:
PetaByte32 wrote:
DingoBoi wrote:
PetaByte32 wrote:
Thank you. you finally proved my point with pretty much everything you said. Effort is what makes or breaks a shipwright. Not factories. That is the word I was looking for. Factories play no part in this. And having them would still require effort. If the crafter doesnt put in effort in any of the crafting professions he wont succeed. Plain and simple and to the point. Again thanks. Tyranus, I'm beginning to question if you need to up your medication.... There is a world of difference between handcrafting every part and crafting once, then dumping a schematic into a factory. One takes effort and the other does not at least not on an appreciable scale.
Again I am not asking for full factory support. But when I do more armor panels then I do missile packs and missile packs can be factory ran but armor panels cantthen something is severely FUBAR'd. No, it's not. You 'choose' to be the size you are. You choose to 'grind' out those parts. You choose. Well, stop choosing. The dev's have said no to it for their own reasons, because they wanted as many people as possible to be a shipwright.
HellNO to a little morefactory support.
And it isnt about bigtime its about succeeding. Everyone has their own view on what success is. For me its having fun playing a game and doing something I enjoy. Doesnt matter if I am bigtime or not. If I am having fun then I am bigtime to myself. Thought you enjoyed the custom crafting making items to a customer's desires. Didn't you say yourself this is the part you enjoy most? So why do you want factory support when that, by your own admission, will take away your fun?
OK Brainiac since you have all the answers. You tell me this. How do you get time to actually craft when you gotta crank out 370 parts every day or two? IT'S YOUR CHOICE TO DO IT WEISENHEIMER! And dont forget time to fly, check harvs, etc? I haven't harvested in a year. If you do it right, it's easier to get others to harvest for you. It's a little something those of us grounded in reality like to call: time management. Answer is this. You cant.GASP! Maybe then you just shouldn't be doing itall. Your stuck clicking like mad and slamming the bar just to speed things up. That isnt crafting. That is making yourself the factory. A time sink I am sure the DEVs put in just for that reason. they put it in for the reason to minimize the effects of jackholes like you who try to dominate the market. You can succeed very well in shipwright, but to be the size you are, pardon me while i yawn... /yawn, you must be more devoted that just pounding a schematic into a factory. Let me guess, you were a weaponsmith/armorsmith? yah, we know about your kind. To make us all sit and slam the bar like mad just to keep us playing.Who's making you?A factory with the ability to at least do armor panels would take away alot of this. I mentioned that several times already. Who's making you? Custom craft those parts or delegate to other shipwrights. Maybe /gasp, get some more staff to help and share the profits. Oh, but that's right, you want it all for yourself. Got someone there with an education above the 6th grade to help you with the really big words or what? You can kiss mah lilly white arse!
Pucker up!
Tyranus
No sizzle chest I am not trying to control the market. Just trying to alleviate some of the load so that I can actually craft and not just click click click like I was grinding something. I aint going for jedi so why should I grind?
What part of "I just want a little more factory support" do you not understand? I am not asking for everything here. Just armor panels at most. Its non-compromising losers like you that have caused so many problems in this game its nuts. Maybe this game wouldnt have the problems it has now if we all compromised instead of your "I like it this way and if you dont thenstuff itand leave!" additude. If you dont like my opinions then dont open my threads. You insult me then get upset when I return the favor? Your a "Can dish it out but cant take it" kinda guy arent you? And as for kissing your arse! I could kiss yournose and get the samething accomplished.
I think I know why the DEVs didnt add anymore support then they did. Same reason they didnt add tapes or belts yet. Coding time. They had to put JTL out quick. So alot of corners had to be cut. Well the game is out now and time to work on the missed parts. Same reason Vehicles, Mounts, and Player Cities werent out originally.
Tyranus
PetaByte32 wrote:
And it isnt about bigtime its about succeeding. Everyone has their own view on what success is. For me its having fun playing a game and doing something I enjoy. Doesnt matter if I am bigtime or not. If I am having fun then I am bigtime to myself.
Tyranus
Then i really have to ponder why you are insistant on supporting this change if you are happily custom crafting for people. Your words belie your actions. You want to be a mogul. You want factory support to do that. Sorry if it takes real time finally for you factory freaks to craft but it's good.
You don't see that because you are just a delusional child. Maybe when mammy and pappy think you are big enough they will give you lessons in real world economics and in-game fun. Sorry you can't be the mogul you want since you are completely unwilling to invest the time. Leave it to the big boys who can child!
Kinot33 wrote:
....
So please, get back to the debate about the current level of factory support for Shipwrights and whether it should be increased or not, and if so by how much, and all the reasons you think support your positions. I am almost dead certain that it is being paid attention to, because I feel now that Shipwright is a template/testbed for the new crafting classes and we have an opportunity to really let our feelings be heard on these issues and have a voice in the direction ALL crafting will take in the future....or maybe I am reading too much into things, but quit bickering and debate!
Message Edited by Kinot33 on 11-30-2004 01:02 PM
I definitely think you're onto something on this - I can't help wondering which way they want to fix the economy. Prices up or prices down?
Prices up case:
* Chassis brokers buying parts -> Money enters economy, prices rise
* No SW Factorys -> Caps supply, prices rise
Prices down case:
* Lots of space loot -> Lots of extra supply, prices fall
* No SW Factorys -> Increases number of SW's, additional competition forces prices down
If I appear to be contradicting myself it's because I'm talking about the influences. If I could predict the outcome I'd be setting myself up to make a mint when the answer becomes obvious.
Since, if this is the case, SW is the experiment.. understanding exactly how it's affecting our market is important not just for ourselves but for the whole game.
IdleThought wrote:
I definitely think you're onto something on this - I can't help wondering which way they want to fix the economy. Prices up or prices down?
Prices up case:
* Chassis brokers buying parts -> Money enters economy, prices rise
* No SW Factorys -> Caps supply, prices rise
Prices down case:
* Lots of space loot -> Lots of extra supply, prices fall
* No SW Factorys -> Increases number of SW's, additional competition forces prices down
If I appear to be contradicting myself it's because I'm talking about the influences. If I could predict the outcome I'd be setting myself up to make a mint when the answer becomes obvious.
Since, if this is the case, SW is the experiment.. understanding exactly how it's affecting our market is important not just for ourselves but for the whole game.
- Statements that they are indeed trying to fix the economy. This cannot be done without some crafting rebalances, as many of you complain about how factory support works now, I would expect itto change either before or with the Combat Upgrade/Rebalance/Whatever
- Repeated statements in CU threads about no more 90% composite (thus indicating a change to at least Armorcrafting)
- Weaponsmithing will HAVE to be changed with the CU to keep weapons in line with the new system, and Armorcrafting as well.
- Solo-group change for combat classes
- The Loot Drop changes that are forthcoming (stability being a large factor)
- various hinted things here and there (nothing I can recall at this exact moment, just little hints and snippets that make me go 'huh')
So please, get back to the debate about the current level of factory support for Shipwrights and whether it should be increased or not, and if so by how much, and all the reasons you think support your positions. I am almost dead certain that it is being paid attention to, because I feel now that Shipwright is a template/testbed for the new crafting classes and we have an opportunity to really let our feelings be heard on these issues and have a voice in the direction ALL crafting will take in the future.
...or maybe I am reading too much into things, but quit bickering and debate!
Message Edited by Kinot33 on 11-30-2004 01:02 PM
PetaByte32 wrote:
<i am a casual gamer. i am against increased factory support, even if it is just for me. so you have misjudged at least some of us. i do not use illegal third party soultions. i think elements of the current factory limitations in shipwright should find their way to all other crafting professions. i have no desire to "rule the field", but i do want to have a chance at having business. this model gives us all a more equal footing, and promotes numerous smaller shops rather than a few big ones.
that is a good thing.
So what are you saying about equal footing? If there was more factory support your saying you couldnt get a factory? Some rare loot that only drops off nunas near keren, naboo the third tuesday after pentecoste during a full moon in janurary while wearing a pink outfit with purple bangles and singing Kumbaya whilst using a pointy stick as a weapon?
That is the way the lot of you sound. You make it out like only certain priveledged few will ever get a factory and all others are left out in the cold.
And this new system is actually promoting more bigger shops then the other system. Reason why is simple. Thanks to limited support, shipwrights have to hire other shipwrights to help counter the load. This hurts all those shipwrights who want to work alone or have just a small shop since they can never compete against the big combines of shipwrights. But hey no one seems to care about those shipwrights.
Again its hypocracy and self-interest. They are more then quick to use the newbie as an excuse not to have more factory support but never willing to mention how the solo shipwright will be hurt by this.
Tyranus
It all depends on your point of view. Sure, as a lone shipwright I cannot compete with a big company of shipwrights. To me, that is ok. As a lone pistoleer I, too, would not expect to be able to compete with a group of other players. A single pilot cannot compete with a fleet. To me, that is balance.
With factory support this is not so much one against many so more. The one with more lots will win. If that means, the one with the most friends, I do not mind so much. If it is the one with the most accounts, I think this sucks. If it is the one with the most x-server lot trades, well, ... no comment.
What I want to see is a crafting profession, that supports as many crafters as possible. If they team up, this is fine by me. This says, the no factory thing is working.
Or to put it the other way around, I hate it, when somebody who is spending 90% of his online time hunting or doing other stuff is able to compete with a dedicated crafter, who is spending all of his online time doing crafting related stuff. I do not see this as balanced...
And, what is more, those companies help novice shipwrights along. This is something great. This is, what appenticeship XP probably was meant to be. Even not being part of this, I love it.
And you can still have your small SW shop doing custom work. This works very well for me, although there are mega cops out there...
Regarding self interest, my impression is, that the pro factory arguments are mainly motivated by self interest. So are many of the anti factory arguments. I do not see much difference there.
Regards
Niacia
Message Edited by Niacia on 12-02-2004 10:33 PM
Niacia wrote:
PetaByte32 wrote:
<
i am a casual gamer. i am against increased factory support, even if it is just for me. so you have misjudged at least some of us. i do not use illegal third party soultions. i think elements of the current factory limitations in shipwright should find their way to all other crafting professions. i have no desire to "rule the field", but i do want to have a chance at having business. this model gives us all a more equal footing, and promotes numerous smaller shops rather than a few big ones.
that is a good thing.
So what are you saying about equal footing? If there was more factory support your saying you couldnt get a factory? Some rare loot that only drops off nunas near keren, naboo the third tuesday after pentecoste during a full moon in janurary while wearing a pink outfit with purple bangles and singing Kumbaya whilst using a pointy stick as a weapon?
That is the way the lot of you sound. You make it out like only certain priveledged few will ever get a factory and all others are left out in the cold.
And this new system is actually promoting more bigger shops then the other system. Reason why is simple. Thanks to limited support, shipwrights have to hire other shipwrights to help counter the load. This hurts all those shipwrights who want to work alone or have just a small shop since they can never compete against the big combines of shipwrights. But hey no one seems to care about those shipwrights.
Again its hypocracy and self-interest. They are more then quick to use the newbie as an excuse not to have more factory support but never willing to mention how the solo shipwright will be hurt by this.
Tyranus
It all depends on your point of view. Sure, as a lone shipwright I cannot compete with a big company of shipwrights. To me, that is ok. As a lone pistoleer I, too, would not expect to be able to compete with a group of other players. A single pilot cannot compete with a fleet. To me, that is balance.
With factory support this is not so much one against many so more. The one with more lots will win. If that means, the one with the most friends, I do not mind so much. If it is the one with the most accounts, I think this sucks. If it is the one with the most x-server lot trades, well, ... no comment.
What I want to see is a crafting profession, that supports as many crafters as possible. If they team up, this is fine by me. This says, the no factory thing is working.
Or to put it the other way around, I hate it, when somebody who is spending 90% of his online time hunting or doing other stuff is able to compete with a dedicated crafter, who is spending all of his online time doing crafting related stuff. I do not see this as balanced...
And, what is more, those companies help novice shipwrights along. This is something great. This is, what appenticeship XP probably was meant to be. Even not being part of this, I love it.
And you can still have your small SW shop doing custom work. This works very well for me, although there are mega cops out there...
Regarding self interest, my impression is, that the pro factory arguments are mainly motivated by self interest. So are many of the anti factory arguments. I do not see much difference there.
Regards
Niacia
Message Edited by Niacia on 12-02-2004 10:33 PM
neutrineaux wrote:
3 replies to one poster's comments in 3 posts instead of one
Imaridril wrote:
As someone who's a customer and not a shipwright, let me give you my take on things... I'm a fairly weathly player. When I'm shopping for ship components I don't even think about the price unless its in the high 6 figures. However, the problem I'm having is finding stocked vendors. I play on Starsider, which is one of the more populated servers. The other day I went to every shipwright shop listed on the planetary map around Coronet and Theed. It was probably close to 50 shops total. Of those shops, at least 90% were severly understocked. At least half of them had 10 or less items on their vendors. I had to go through almost 30 stores before I managed to find one with the chassis I wanted. When it came to components, selection almost everywhere was terrible, and out of those 50 shops only two or three had anything even worth me looking at. Now, I don't know if factory support would change this situation, but as it is right now, it seems to me that there is a serious shortage of supply.
wow, that is dedication.
why not just send a tell or e-mail to any one or a few of the shipwrights whose shops you visited and ask for a chassis to be made. i for one am always happy to try and produce something a pilot needs.
so far i have managed to keep 200+ items on the vendors, sometimes up to 850+. but it does require some dedication to being a shipwright. i understand that some people are spoiled to being able to fill their vendors with a factory run and go do something else, but that is not the case here. so shop smart, and network with a variety of shipwrights to minimize aggravation. 
PetaByte32 wrote:
I think the very ironic thing about this thread is how alot of the people posting about no factory support for shipwrights are the same ones that want an FS conversion.
Interesting how they are quick to say that shipwright is like every other crafting profession so they should get an FS conversion but when the issue of factory support comes upthey are just as quick to point out how different this profession is from other crafting professions.
Tyranus
fs credit has nothing to do with factory support. other professions have variable factory support (think BE), and do just fine with it. they get fs conversion. there is simply no connection. you are grasping at straws.
shipwright is like other crafting professions in some ways, different in others. and that is a good thing. but we should get a shot at jedi just like every other ground based prof.
of course, the armorsmith who wants the fs points would have to hand craft, cause the xp you get from factories is not so good.
PetaByte32 wrote:
4Bidden wrote:
The part that's starting to worry me is that I've been told by a few master shipwrights that they are now resorting to 3rd party programs to craft for them. This is outrageous. These shipwrights voted no on factory support so they can continue to mass produce products and somewhat corner their markets.. They have turned themselves into virtual factories.. Not only have some of them admitted this to me, but when you send them a tell they never answer, yet somehow end up with hundreds of items on their vendors.
I have heard about this macro myself but never have seen it. Wouldnt use it if I did. And doesnt suprize me that some are using it. I am willing to bet alot of those against factory support are the ones using it.
IMO most shipwrights would agree 100% on factory support if it was just for their toon and no other shipwrights. "Oh I alone can have full factory support? Certainly I agree completely."
Its all about hypocracy and irony. They say "Well we dont want factory support so newbies can have a chance to compete." but a newbie can use a factory just like any other. It wouldnt make a difference either way if there was or wasnt factories in regards to a newbie competeing. The truth is they think they can rule the field by "outcrafting" their associates.
Dont you think its odd how they are are against factories because of newbies not being able to compete but they never mention the casual gamer who cant ever compete as a shipwright because of all the crafting involved?
Tyranus
i am a casual gamer. i am against increased factory support, even if it is just for me. so you have misjudged at least some of us. i do not use illegal third party soultions. i think elements of the current factory limitations in shipwright should find their way to all other crafting professions. i have no desire to "rule the field", but i do want to have a chance at having business. this model gives us all a more equal footing, and promotes numerous smaller shops rather than a few big ones.
that is a good thing.