Shipwright Archive
Thread: SPACE LOOT SYSTEM NEEDs BIG TIME CHANGE ASAP...PLEASE!
sbob
Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:22 am
#92
I am aware of the diffrent ships and consider much of the ships in space to be more the core template around wich you place the equipment. My fear is not that every one be in the exact same ship but more that every one who is in the same ship will have the ship decked out in exactly the same way. Mucls like you have your rifleman and swordsman both have their own uses but many times see the same thing with every rifleman or swordsman it seems in the gear. That is what my fear is. And bring up the lower level stuff more to the loot drops woul dbe fine but my concern is more the powering up of items across the board in crafting. I think would be better to make the higher level loot drops have that critical flaw that has to be RE'ed out which would take a bit of time colecting the right number of compoents and the like like. thus making people more likely touse the crafted items a bit an not have shot the fast drop loot upgrades that we see now. My idea is more ideas to try and keep the health of the profession over the long haul. Eventualy yes people will end up with the looted items in their ship but it will not be after one mission, or at least i hope not.
Coran_Sienar
Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:31 am
#93
I can see where you're coming from, sbob.
But with the mass restrictions, I still think that there's enough room for people to personalize their ships. Some people fly their A-Wings without armor, but I don't. Some people don't fly with ordinance, but I'm rather fond of the MKII Spacebombs. Ships will still be customized with respect to a particular pilot's flying style.
Diorchas
Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:56 am
#94
Why is it so hard for people to understand that Shipwrights are the only profession forced to compete with an unlimited (and often superior) inflow of equipment? No other profession has to compete with NPCs. No other profession has to deal with the certain knowledge that not only are their products largely inferior to loot, but even when others DO buy their equipment they more often than not complain about the price.
Shipwrights have very valid, very serious complaints about the way the system is implemented, yet most of them don't want a total nerf of the loot system. They simply want their products to be superior to loot, just like EVERY OTHER CRAFTING PROFESSION.
It's really simple, honestly. Those folks who claim not to see it or that Shipwrights are wailing for a unilateral loot nerf are either willfully ignorant or woefully dishonest.
Diorchas
Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:56 pm
#95
I agree, Coran. The idea of giving SWs an option to generate a Limited Schematic for REing is something I've been stumping for for weeks. But no one who can effect change is really listening. hehehe
Eaca
Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:35 pm
#96
I don't want the SW who's REing the 10 guns I've been collecting for months to get a limited use schematic of that gun... If something like that were the case instead of throwing 10k per RE level at my SW friends like I do now, I'd get an alt and grind them to SW, cause honestly, I don't want to be facing some of the weapons I've RE'd, I don't want weapons of that magnatude being anywhere NEAR readily available. I busted my ASS to get those loot drops, or buy a few I couldn't get myself. As far as the idea of making only a few stats usable, and everything else just awful, well thats a great idea so long as those usable stats are well above normal. A L10 gun who's "usable" stats are 55k mass, 0.65 vs shieldsand 3200 max damage is a worthless gun. If something like that were the case then instead of having to get 15-20 L10 guns to make a decent RE, you're looking along the lines of waiting to loot 100+ guns, which is daunting at best, discouraging at worst. Thus far having the item straight up disabled until RE'd has been an idea that I think would be the best between pilots and SW's, it doesn't take away our loot quest, and we have to go to you for the RE to enable it. For this maybe take out the requirement to have an equal number of items in the tool to the RE level, you COULD RE one level 10 component with itself to enable it, but it would get no bonus (or just 1%), bonus applied to stats would depend on the number of items you use, up to a max of the RE level. Honestly the current state of loot drops is rather discouraging, I can't think of a single thing I've recieved recently that I would consider RE material, and haven't seen a L10 gun in weeks (armor drops seem way up, weapon drops way down, out of 50+ loots I get in one flight, maybe 3-4 guns 10+ armor)
Coran_Sienar
Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:06 am
#97
Diorchas wrote:
Why is it so hard for people to understand that Shipwrights are the only profession forced to compete with an unlimited (and often superior) inflow of equipment? No other profession has to compete with NPCs. No other profession has to deal with the certain knowledge that not only are their products largely inferior to loot, but even when others DO buy their equipment they more often than not complain about the price.
Shipwrights have very valid, very serious complaints about the way the system is implemented, yet most of them don't want a total nerf of the loot system. They simply want their products to be superior to loot, just like EVERY OTHER CRAFTING PROFESSION.
It's really simple, honestly. Those folks who claim not to see it or that Shipwrights are wailing for a unilateral loot nerf are either willfully ignorant or woefully dishonest.
The easiest fix would be to institute a method by which a limited-use schematic also appeared with the REing of any loot. But what *has* happened is that loot drops were nerfed in both quantity and quality.
Diorchas
Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:22 am
#98
Eaca,
You're making the Shipwright's point eloquently. You can get far better equipment by loot than you can with crafting. That's the whole point. It's not right. Every other crafting profession can make equipment better than loot. Yet you don't even want Shipwrights to get a limited run schematic from your loot.
Who's selfish now?
DarkRenown
Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:49 am
#99
Time for my two penneth.
I am a Master SW. Most of my sales (at present) have been around a few chassis, Flight Comps, Paint Kits, Texture Kits, and Reactors.
I am working in partnership with another SW who specialises in Weapons, Shields, Armour and I know full well he is making a tidy profit from these.
I think certain aspects of lootes items are out of balance, this is limited to Capacitors, Boosters, and Engines (YPR rates). Personally I think that the crafted ones should be improved so that they are about 10% better than the looted items (for Caps, Boosters etc).
I liek the loot system. I like RE'ing. I really enjoy interacting with pilots who have been saving up those rare drops to get a lovely RE weapon.
I also enjoy interacting with players who don;t want to wait, but order a custom made reactor, shield etc.
Don't nerf the loot. Just make crafted Engines, Boosters and Capacitors have higher stats.
I like the idea of rare loot drops that are components for SW stuff, but think the loot system as is works quite well.
Jagged-F3l
Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:59 am
#100
Eaca wrote:
I don't want the SW who's REing the 10 guns I've been collecting for months to get a limited use schematic of that gun... If something like that were the case instead of throwing 10k per RE level at my SW friends like I do now, I'd get an alt and grind them to SW, cause honestly, I don't want to be facing some of the weapons I've RE'd, I don't want weapons of that magnatude being anywhere NEAR readily available. I busted my ASS to get those loot drops, or buy a few I couldn't get myself. As far as the idea of making only a few stats usable, and everything else just awful, well thats a great idea so long as those usable stats are well above normal. A L10 gun who's "usable" stats are 55k mass, 0.65 vs shieldsand 3200 max damage is a worthless gun. If something like that were the case then instead of having to get 15-20 L10 guns to make a decent RE, you're looking along the lines of waiting to loot 100+ guns, which is daunting at best, discouraging at worst. Thus far having the item straight up disabled until RE'd has been an idea that I think would be the best between pilots and SW's, it doesn't take away our loot quest, and we have to go to you for the RE to enable it. For this maybe take out the requirement to have an equal number of items in the tool to the RE level, you COULD RE one level 10 component with itself to enable it, but it would get no bonus (or just 1%), bonus applied to stats would depend on the number of items you use, up to a max of the RE level. Honestly the current state of loot drops is rather discouraging, I can't think of a single thing I've recieved recently that I would consider RE material, and haven't seen a L10 gun in weeks (armor drops seem way up, weapon drops way down, out of 50+ loots I get in one flight, maybe 3-4 guns 10+ armor)
You don't GIVE him the limited use schematic, he buys it from you. This is a win-win for everyone.
Personally, I find RE'ing a giant pain-in-the-butt, and would love to see this function moved to the chassis dealer (or some other NPC). This way, a player can be given the option of a RE'd component, or a limited-use schematic. The player can turn around and sell the the schematic to a shipwright. It would be great way for pilots to make money.
Rhysen
Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:56 am
#101
Coran_Sienar wrote:
Rhysen,
I was a Master Rifleman/Master Doctor until VERY recently. And, yes, I *am* aware of the solo group nerf. Who the hell wouldn't be? You can be passionate about your point of view without engaging in rudeness, right?
Loot that is usable is the single highest motivating factor for higher tier pilots. Yeah, youcan earn 300K in about two hours as you stated. (Actually, it's a lot faster to harvest loot from lower level spawns. You more than make up the credit chip drops with increased quantities of loot.) However, the changes that you propose *would* increase the difficulty curve for newbie pilots who just started SWG and JtL. Something that the developers are loathe to do, especially considering the large volume of complaints awaiting them from the pilots.
I totally disagree with your views on the shipwright resource requirements. Fewer resource requirements would equal larger numbers of shipwrights. It would be easier for dabblers who don't want to babysit dozens of harvesters to become engaged in the profession. If you want a concrete example of that, just look at the number of Master Doctors who craft medicines for sale or personal use. I've been a Master Doc for over half a year. I *still* have stocks of super resources from when I harvested a mere 200K of Tatooine Fiberplast or Dolovite Iron seven months ago. On top of that, the profitability of Shipwright and the accessibility (price-wise) of the ships and components would be increased for both the shipwright and pilot professions.
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 01-04-2005 08:48 AM
Not when a blatant lie is involved. If everyone knows about the solo group nerf, saying that a person on the ground is making millions is pretty much a blatant lie. Similiar to the ones constantly being told by pilots that they can't make any credits to afford things from Shipwrights. The Tier 0 upgradeable ship comes with better equipment than most loot and what a Shipwright can create.
It is also a blatant lie that a newbie will have trouble progressing if they don't get free, working loot. When the Tier 1 duty missions yield enough credits and loot to provide a brand new player with enough credits to afford several Tier 1 ships even at the most obscene prices, it's a lie. With new characters, I've had enough credits from the tier 1 duty missions to afford Tier 2 ships prior to being capable of flying them. And starting on the Tier 2 Duty missions, earned more than enough (because the the increased number of duty missions necessary to progress) to afford the Tier 3 ship and equipment prior to certification. That's IF I was stupid enough to waste the credits to buy an blaster made by a shipwright when in all likelyhood I'd already received 3 that were perfectly serviceable.
Decreasing the requirements of the shipwright resources would allow 'dabblers' to participate more, yes. But they would be dabbling for themselves only. There are Shipwrights with the current resource requirementsconsuming millions of resources per week sustaining their business. Lowered resource requirements would not change the amount of resources they're able to acquire. But what it would do is increase the amount of components/chassis they could supply the market. 'Dabbling' is fine, but you have to realize many crafters aren't in this to dabble with making their own ships. The enjoyment they derive from the game is creating and running a business. With the current resource requirements there are individuals, through multiple accounts and lot swaps and PA sponsorship, capable of taking a large percentage of the Shipwright sales. Lowering the resource requirements only allows them to provide a greater supply of products. And any crafter realizes that once past the grinding required in the profession to make an item, the one of the primary factors determining sales is supply. Quality is a lesser factor. Two Master Shipwrights are capable of creating the exact same quality component. provided they have the resources.
Coran_Sienar
Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:48 am
#102
Well, we can agree to disagree, Rhysen. And when I mentioned solo groups, I used the word "could" not "can." Perhaps I ask too much fine distinction in English grammar on your part, but which one of those is past tense?
What it looks like to me is that you want to eliminate your competition. Dabblers would cut into your sales so you want to keep the resource requirements high. Loot also cuts into your sales, so you want that nerfed, too. Just be honest about it.
As for "enjoyment"...who exactly are you to tell someone how they should enjoy the game? Dabblers have quite a lot of fun dabbling. The business simulation aspect may appeal to you, but it doesn't for a lot of people.
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 01-05-2005 10:51 AM
Chiwawa
Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:20 am
#103
Rhysen wrote:
...And any crafter realizes that once past the grinding required in the profession to make an item, the one of the primary factors determining sales is supply. Quality is a lesser factor....
I totally disagree, quality is everything, of course you need to maintain SOME stock, but so long as items are available most of the time the quality will bring them flocking.
Coran_Sienar
Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:32 am
#104
Chiwawa wrote:
Rhysen wrote:
...And any crafter realizes that once past the grinding required in the profession to make an item, the one of the primary factors determining sales is supply. Quality is a lesser factor....
I totally disagree, quality is everything, of course you need to maintain SOME stock, but so long as items are available most of the time the quality will bring them flocking.
Yup. It's also the reason why the better Master Shipwrights who are my friends really could care less that I often give away my grind blueprints. They know that (sooner or later), those pilots will come to them (because I recommend their shops)to buy blueprints and componentsmade with premium resources and that they'll make a lot morecredits per unit, overall.